The LAW!

[trettep]

So good Sparrow.

And Paul, that speed limit analogy was great too. Not that the other stuff isn't good, it's just I can relate to yours and Sparrows way of putting it. Interesting how there are volumes and volumes of words about the law and yet I see them all summed up in yours and Sparrows posts.

cp

Wonderful that you understand that claypot.  I see the Israelites under the Pharisees as having made the LETTER their god.  See the Intent of that Letter, IS God.  That is the Spirit, that same Spirit that is in Christ that He delivers in the form of WORDS to us.

Paul

[pneuma]

Here is the thing about the laws written in stone, they are the SAME laws written in our hearts and one cannot go into a new country/promised land until they know the laws of that land. And if they break the laws of the land they have entered they pay the piper.

These 10 laws written in stone are not the SAME laws Moses penned (some 600+ laws) these 10 were written by the fingure of God and they are NOT done away with except they are fullfilled in use.

[pneuma]

use, I ment us   

[jabcat]

Here is the thing about the laws written in stone, they are the SAME laws written in our hearts and one cannot go into a new country/promised land until they know the laws of that land. And if they break the laws of the land they have entered they pay the piper.

These 10 laws written in stone are not the SAME laws Moses penned (some 600+ laws) these 10 were written by the fingure of God and they are NOT done away with except they are fullfilled in use.

My goal will be to look to Jesus to fulfill those laws through me, not by my attempting to "use" them.  He is the focus.  Our righteousness is as filthy rags, and those have a tendency to begin to stink..."Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor"...God bless us as He teaches us His humility and grace.  James.

[Redlettervoice]

I think they are the same "laws" but written on STONE is not like
being written on tables of flesh......tables of STONE, or tables
of flesh.

I had a vision once. I saw the tablets.  I saw the words written
on the stones........and I saw a "fire" and then an invisible
hand writing in "blood" writing on the same tablets ........"GRACE to the Church."

Praise HIM>

[jabcat]

oh my...thank you Father   

[jabcat]

Thank you for the cross, Lord
Thank you for the price You paid
Bearing all my sin and shame
In love You came
And gave amazing grace

Thank you for this love, Lord
Thank you for the nail pierced hands
Washed me in Your cleansing flow
Now all I know
Your forgiveness and embrace

Worthy is the Lamb
Seated on the throne
Crown You now with many crowns
You reign victorious

High and lifted up
Jesus Son of God
The Darling of Heaven crucified
Worthy is the Lamb
Worthy is the Lamb

[Cardinal]

I think they are the same "laws" but written on STONE is not like
being written on tables of flesh......tables of STONE, or tables
of flesh.

I had a vision once. I saw the tablets.  I saw the words written
on the stones........and I saw a "fire" and then an invisible
hand writing in "blood" writing on the same tablets ........"GRACE to the Church."

Praise HIM>

  Awesome, awesome, God we serve. Thanks for sharing this.  Blessings....

[Cardinal]

These 10 laws written in stone are not the SAME laws Moses penned (some 600+ laws) these 10 were written by the finger of God and they are NOT done away with except they are fulfilled in us.

  I proofread it for ya, LOL....anyway, AMEN, no they are not done away with until He does the works/fulfills them in us. Blessings....

[jabcat]

Amen...He does the works/fulfills them in us.  I guess ya'll will just have to forgive me if I seem to give too much credit to God  .  I've failed miserably too many times and have had to have Him pick me up and renew me, despite myself.


 

[martincisneros]

2Corinthians 3 specifically calls the Ten Commandments the ministry of death and condemnation.  They're the only part of the law written on stones (2Corinthians 3:7).  In that chapter, the Ten Commandments are called the letter of the law that's not the Spirit.  They're what's done away by the surpassing glory of the New Covenant.  2Corinthians 3 isn't validating the allegorical method of interpreting Scripture and villifying keeping things within context and literal where the context indicates it's appropriate.  It's calling the Ten Commandments the letter of the law written and engraved on stones and the antithesis, bane, and nemesis of the New Covenant.

[Cardinal]

  If I understood what you said here Martin (?), you're saying that they are not done away with by allegorical interpretation, yes?

Amen, no, argument on that here.......No, they're not; they are done away with by an inward spiritual work of the Spirit, not a mental assent or an allegorical interpretation, that they no longer have authority over us. Our mind, including it's ability to agree with scripture, even revealed scripture, still can't save us or cleanse the motive of the heart. It takes the Spirit to do the work of the sanctification of our souls. Blessings....

[trettep]

If I understood what you said here Martin (?), you're saying that they are not done away with by allegorical interpretation, yes?

Amen, no, argument on that here.......No, they're not; they are done away with by an inward spiritual work of the Spirit, not a mental assent or an allegorical interpretation, that they no longer have authority over us. Our mind, including it's ability to agree with scripture, even revealed scripture, still can't save us or cleanse the motive of the heart. It takes the Spirit to do the work of the sanctification of our souls. Blessings....

The Law still exists just not in Letter.  The Law is that which established the Letter.  It's a matter of perspective.  For example, it is still wrong to lust and covet but not according to the Letter now but according to the Law that established the Letter which is the Spirit of Christ.

Paul

[Cardinal]

  Yes, good point, Paul. Done away with, is misleading, in a way. Fulfilled would be a better term to express what is actually done. Blessings....

[Redlettervoice]

Concerning "mankind" .........and the LAW; Eve's disobedience,
and the "route back to OBEDIENCE unto LIFE."

The LAW was "ordained" unto LIFE all along, not unto "sacrifices" of
bulls and goats.  But man eating from the tree of knowledge
of good and evil, got a few things mixed up.  Then we had to
go all around all this mess to find our way back! To understand
why Paul called it HOLY!  The "killing" part was ADDED.  It was
"ordained" to LIFE, but then God said "I kill and I make ALIVE."
I personally believe this represents the "great horror" seen by Abraham.
When Paul saw the Truth, he even called the killing part, HOLY.
Because the LAW lead Him to the knowledge of Christ. The mystery.

That is why it says in Psa. 50

 "Call my people together, those
that have made a "covenant" with me by "sacrifice"

 .......a few
verses down, God says "Will I drink the blood of bulls and goats.?"

"I will not reprove you for these sacrifices, but ......we have to
learn OBEDIENCE is better than "sacrifice and offering".

  And"why" Job was called Perfect and Upright even "before" his trials.God was seeing the Second Man in him all along, but Job being born subject to vanity,  wasn't. 

God says He will "break" our "covenant" of death mentioned there in Psa.
50.  It is a covenant man tries to make.The first covenant. Hagar.
Not unto LIFE!

Jesus came to show
us the WAY of Obedience unto Life.    Laying down our lives leads to finding
our lives.  Finding that Second Man.

 As we have borne the"image"
of the earthy, law, first covenant, judging after the flesh, misunderstanding, etc.
so shall we bear the IMAGE of the Heavenly
a Quickening Spirit.

 Jesus was given all Judgement to "quicken"
whomsoever He would.  LIFE giving Jesus.

Because it is concerning "mankind" is why we are told to henceforth
know no man after the flesh, when we are given understanding.
Judge no man after the flesh. God sets us on a journey that
brings one of a family, two of a city, to the understanding. This
is why it says "as you judge, so shall you be judged."


Therefore they shall "know" my Name!  For My Name shall be
GREAT among the heathen.  God does many things, works all things
together for the glory of His Name.

Praise HIM!  He is the GIFT of God!

 

[trettep]

Yes, good point, Paul. Done away with, is misleading, in a way. Fulfilled would be a better term to express what is actually done. Blessings....

What is interesting is the word "fullfill" means to make "replete" here:

Mat 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

But look how many think the law is COMPLETELY destroyed.  It isn't, and Jesus doesn't want us to believe that it is.  Some think that it will go away when it is fulfilled but that is not what it says about the Law.  The letter is gone but not the Law.  Cardinal, not sure if you read my analogy about the Speed Limit but if not, please read it.  It will show you what is wrong with the letter and how if you were to follow the letter, you could be working sin and death.

Paul

[Cardinal]

  Yes, I did read it, but went back and reread it. I agree completely. That was a good analogy, and simplifies what is difficult to comprehend. Obedience to the Spirit eventually ends in setting us free from the law of sin and death, again, not just in word, but in deed (of the Spirit). Blessings....

[Molly]

Yes, good point, Paul. Done away with, is misleading, in a way. Fulfilled would be a better term to express what is actually done. Blessings....

What is interesting is the word "fullfill" means to make "replete" here:

Mat 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

But look how many think the law is COMPLETELY destroyed.  It isn't, and Jesus doesn't want us to believe that it is.  Some think that it will go away when it is fulfilled but that is not what it says about the Law.  The letter is gone but not the Law.  Cardinal, not sure if you read my analogy about the Speed Limit but if not, please read it.  It will show you what is wrong with the letter and how if you were to follow the letter, you could be working sin and death.

Paul

By fulfill [the law],  doesn't he mean to make it complete in that it can now be manifested in a human vessel?  He can now fill humans with the law, thereby making them righteous?


fulfill

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.




"replete"

1.Abundantly supplied; abounding: a stream replete with trout; an apartment replete with Empire furniture.
2. Filled to satiation; gorged.
3. Usage Problem Complete: a computer system replete with color monitor, printer, and software.

[Cardinal]

  Well, that's interesting Molly. I'd say that somehow that is connected in principle to when He told them to put their nets on the right side of the boat (smile). Blessings....

[DaughterofDavid]

Yes, good point, Paul. Done away with, is misleading, in a way. Fulfilled would be a better term to express what is actually done. Blessings....

What is interesting is the word "fullfill" means to make "replete" here:

Mat 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

But look how many think the law is COMPLETELY destroyed.  It isn't, and Jesus doesn't want us to believe that it is.  Some think that it will go away when it is fulfilled but that is not what it says about the Law.  The letter is gone but not the Law.  Cardinal, not sure if you read my analogy about the Speed Limit but if not, please read it.  It will show you what is wrong with the letter and how if you were to follow the letter, you could be working sin and death.

Paul

By fulfill [the law],  doesn't he mean to make it complete in that it can now be manifested in a human vessel?  He can now fill humans with the law, thereby making them righteous?


fulfill

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.




"replete"

1.Abundantly supplied; abounding: a stream replete with trout; an apartment replete with Empire furniture.
2. Filled to satiation; gorged.
3. Usage Problem Complete: a computer system replete with color monitor, printer, and software.

Hi Molly,

I loved this that you shared with us....for that is what I have learned too. That one word 'fulfill' has been sooooo MISUNDERSTOOD within the 'church'.....just as the word 'everlasting' has been misunderstood.....

For me, the Lawgiver is/was Yahshua. He is the FULL-FILLment of all the Feasts....He is the pattern for all of us....the divine picture of what the FEAST of TABERNACLES looks like in the flesh...He was and is the living, breathing, talking, walking, Feast of Tabernacles in the flesh! HalleluYah to His most glorious name!

All those who have and are hearing/partaking of the Feasts of Trumpets (the message to go on to perfection...of entering into the REALITY of the Feast of Tabernacles/of Yahweh dwelling within our midst (bodies fully)....FULL REDEMPTION (body, soul, spirit).....these are those that will also FULLFILL the LAW within too. All of this is a process and is unfolding within each believer....and when Father is ready He will at His appointed time draw back the veil to REVEAL His glorious son's and daughter's throughout all the earth that have gone all the way His way(the cross)....the dying of the old man so that the new man can come forth!

To Yahshua belongs all the praise and glory!

DaughterofDavid

[Taffy]

Fine Opening Post Daughter of David 

[peacemaker]

Abundantly provided for, how sweet it is, nothing like honey!

peacemaker

[Cardinal]

   Daughter of David, you're speaking my "language". Good post.  Blessings....

[jabcat]

"to go on to perfection"

Yes, very interesting.  The whole MSoG discussion (don't hear much about that in the Baptist "Church"  ) is fascinating.  Again, I started that "Works" thread, I'm "working"  through this for myself, and I have honest ponderings about it...we don't attain that perfection, it's Jesus working His righteousness in us, right? 

For instance, today, could any of us say "God, you stay out of this, I'm going to work on my perfection today"?  I don't think so, don't think it would work worth a hoot, but what do you guys think?

[DaughterofDavid]

"to go on to perfection"

Yes, very interesting.  The whole MSoG discussion (don't hear much about that in the Baptist "Church"  ) is fascinating.  Again, I started that "Works" thread, I'm "working"  through this for myself, and I have honest ponderings about it...we don't attain that perfection, it's Jesus working His righteousness in us, right? 

For instance, today, could any of us say "God, you stay out of this, I'm going to work on my perfection today"?  I don't think so, don't think it would work worth a hoot, but what do you guys think?

Hi Jabcat,

First of all I want to state that 'the whole MSoG discussion' can be interpreted differently by many people....and honestly I don't like labels....(for there are some within the understanding of Sonship that lean way to far towards New Age teachings and then there are others that swing to the other side with a very self righteous 'ELECT mentality'.....I prefer those that are of the Holy Ground.....the Holy Ground of HUMILITY....of understanding that Sonship is a glorious heavenly call that one can only receive by REVELATION...and once it is truly received and understood by the hearer that they have been APPREHENDED BY CHRIST....then they too will SELL ALL THAT THEY HAVE to purchase the PEARL OF GREAT PRICE.)

How much of the Lord do you want?

We all have been given a measure of faith and grace.....(remember the parable of the talents).....and it is what we do with what we have been given that will be REWARDED....for salvation is a free gift for ALL.....but Sonship is a reward (that might make some offended but it is what it is).....and for me my desire is that I want to run the particular race that is set before me in such a way that I win the PRIZE of the HEAVENLY CALLING....and so with the grace and faith that has been given to me I ask for my Holy FORERUNNER to RUN and FINISH what needs to be FINISHED within. It is all about LABORING to enter into HIS REST.

There is a labor that we must do....but once again it is all by His grace given that we choose to cooperate with whatever He is wanting us to yeild to Him in.

Hope that helps.....

DaughterofDavid