Author Topic: seeking understanding  (Read 1542 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
seeking understanding
« on: February 19, 2009, 07:29:09 PM »
I am seeking information on the meaning or an understanding of Matt.16:27-28 Dave
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline sheila

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Re: seeking understanding
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2009, 08:00:31 PM »



    Hi Dave,

   Two Understandings

  1. Points to the transfiguration of Jesus in Ch 17 that follows


  2.His RESURRECTION..the deathless life can be likened to

   the Glory of His Father  with the angels that attended that.


   I feel the reward is this...those who put faith in Him

  saw/wittnessed  THIS GLORY that many without faith

  did not see.


                                           Sheila

Cat

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Re: seeking understanding
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2009, 08:36:01 PM »
I used to think it must be referring to the transfiguration, but I heard an explanation recently, that did seem to make more sense: the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 C.E.  The part that didn't seem to 'fit' the transfiguration was when Jesus mentions some who will still be alive and witness Jesus 'coming in His Kingdom'.  The transfiguration took place only a few days later (I think?) so this seems a strange thing to mention, unless of course Jesus was referring to the judgment that took place in 70 C.E, of which he speaks a lot about in Matt 24.  I'm not sure though. This explanation was by a 'partial preterist' (it amazes me how you learn something new every day) and he did seem to have some valid points.

Offline sheila

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Re: seeking understanding
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2009, 08:39:58 PM »


    If you accept it all..it could be seeing


 the LAW AND  PROPHETS FULFILLED IN HIM,[Moses,Elijah]


    AS HIM COMING INTO HIS KINGDOM[GLORY]

Offline micah7:9

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Re: seeking understanding
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2009, 11:33:48 PM »
Thanks. So far, I believe that we are all on the some plane; I can recieve both.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Dallas

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Re: seeking understanding
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2009, 07:48:30 PM »
  27"For the (AJ)Son of Man (AK)is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and (AL)WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.

   28"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the (AM)Son of Man (AN)coming in His kingdom."


First, this statement according to their deeds is a direct refrence to the law, and the commitment to lawful justice. That is the old covenant working itself out, the Hebrew under the law being judged through the law apart from the glory of the new covenant.

The coming of Christ kingdom is signifying the old has passed and is being replaced and that which is replaced is destroyed becuase it has lost it's power and authority.

This is all tied to the many prophecies that tell of the destruction and end of the world (as the world was under the power and authority of the old covenant of Moses), which was the end of the old covenant and Jerusalem.



Jesus also said in the same context:

Matthew 24: Matthew 24
   1 Jesus (B)came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.

   2And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down."

   3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" 

   15"Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

   25"Behold, I have told you in advance.

   27"For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

   29"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

   30"And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

   34"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

   35"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 

   39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.


The coming of the son of man and His kingdom brought about the end of the old and destroyed the land of His enemies, which were those who held to the old covenant... Jerusalem. The old covenant and old covenant sacrificial systems, they had to come down. That's why all this is connected to the desruction of the temple and the Jew. They were rendered justice according to thier covenant, that of justification through their deeds, but just as was told them there were none righteous not one.

The truth that that took place upon that generation is told through scripture, even Peter in his first sermon that converedted 3000 said,

Acts 2:14 "But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words.

   15"For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;

   16but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
      17'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
      19'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
         AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
         BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
      20'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
         AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
         BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.

     40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!"


Peter was quite specific that the generation he was alive in was the one that needed to be saved from the great signs and destruction. He also claimed the end quoting the last days were over them- not the future beyond their generation but specifically for their own.

Jesus also said,

Matthew 23:34 "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,

   35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

   36"Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

   37"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

   38"Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!"

Jesus said He would repay them for their deeds... well here Jesus charges Jerusalem for their deeds, murder of the holy ones, and charges Jersualem with recieving the guilt of ALL OF CREATION, and their judgement... they were being destroyed (left desolate- the abominatin of desolation). He tells His disciples, he tells the Jews themselves and Peter tells the Jews also that it is the generation in that they are currently living.

Jesus ascended in AD 30... and one biblical generation of 40* years falls on 70 AD. The exact same year of the destruction of Jerusalem and the bringing down of the temple in which Ceasar Titus stood in the remains of the temple declaring that he, Titus, was indeed God. For what other God is there that could prevent him from taking even the temple.

* (in the Exodus the sons that rebelled and were punished and wandered for 40 years were called that generation.)


Hope that's enough, but it seems when I give out great biblical truth with lots of scripture and explanation my posts just get overlooked so I'm not expounding anymore in depth.

Hope it sheds some light. I have put a great amount of study to this cause lets face it, I'm selfish when it comes to my eternal exsitance and I couldn't simply trust some one else to simply say oh o.k. thats just the way it is then... :bigGrin:

Offline Taffy

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Re: seeking understanding
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2009, 08:14:00 PM »
Quote
........explanation my posts just get overlooked

no not really Dallas..I guess we sense Unless others comment ONE way or another they do get passed by...as with Sheilas...I

Taste , to eat or consume....
For Mine- it can been looked at two ways as sheila commented...First the natural, Then the spiritual reality ,as I deem it.

Man ,as In the FLESH DieS as In the Natural ,as In 70AD  and\ OR ,Through DEATH of the OLD MAN ,LIFE IS GIVEN  BY HE who Tasted DEATH for ALL MEN .

 :icon_flower:

« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 08:15:53 PM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Cat

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Re: seeking understanding
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2009, 08:35:16 PM »
I wonder if these signs that were clearly fulfilled in 70 CE have a 'second' fulfillment for the end of this present age?  I know most of main stream Christianity believes this.  I listened to a series of videos recently by a partial preterist and he seemed to show clearly that all that 'end time' stuff and most of the stuff in Revelation (not all) was specifically for the 70  CE destruction.  He thinks alot of the 'end time' intrigue, rapture, Beast (Is it Obama  :mshock:) 'tickling your ears' stuff is all incorrect and was just for that generation back in the first century.  What do you guys think?

Offline Taffy

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Re: seeking understanding
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 09:03:30 PM »
I wonder if these signs that were clearly fulfilled in 70 CE have a 'second' fulfillment for the end of this present age?  I know most of main stream Christianity believes this.  I listened to a series of videos recently by a partial preterist and he seemed to show clearly that all that 'end time' stuff and most of the stuff in Revelation (not all) was specifically for the 70  CE destruction.  He thinks alot of the 'end time' intrigue, rapture, Beast (Is it Obama  :mshock:) 'tickling your ears' stuff is all incorrect and was just for that generation back in the first century.  What do you guys think?
Hi Cat

again theres different perspectives..to what PRESENT is- or THE time is nigh -


I see it as explained...the Natural as in the events of 70 AD, and Nigh( spiritual) being present as each generation exists ..

Others may  see this differently.. :HeartThrob:

 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Cat

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Re: seeking understanding
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2009, 09:57:37 PM »
Thanks for that Taffy.  :bigGrin:

Offline Taffy

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Re: seeking understanding
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2009, 10:07:23 PM »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.