Author Topic: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"  (Read 16134 times)

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Offline eaglesway

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #75 on: February 20, 2010, 09:26:06 AM »
Hi dmatic
  Koinonea is a Greek work meaning fellowship/oneness. When I say grace is the source of everything,  I am saying just what you said-of ourselves we can do nothing. Actually, I should have said, "God is the source and His grace provides us access to everything we need through the Holy Spirit." When believers get the cart before the horse, trying to "obey" commandments and accomplish works for God without abiding in fellowship with Him through a broken and a contrite heart (humble enjoyment of His presence & forgiveness), they frustrate the grace of God, and wind up in self condemnation, or pride. Many believers "go back under the law" because they are trying to serve God in the letter of the word, rather than in the Spirit. Their hearts may be right, but their understanding is unfruitful.

    Walking according to the Spirit is walking in abiding fellowship in the love of God. It is only as my soul thirsts for the living God that the overcoming life in the Spirit can be activated in me. This higher law of love is the perfect law of liberty- the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus- the glorious liberty of the sons of God. It fulfills and far exceeds the law contained in ordinances, which was a shadow of that which was to come. "Behold, in the volume of the book it is written of me, 'I come to do thy will O God'." "Nevertheless not my will but thine be done."

    Fruitfulness in the kingdom comes from abiding in the vine (Jn 15). Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. The divine nature is the life flowing through the whole vine. "That being rooted and grounded in love you may be filled up unto all the fulness of God"(Eph 3).

     "As you received the Spirit so also walk ye in the Spirit". How did we receive the Spirit? By grace through faith....by hearing with faith....by deeply thirsting for the fountain of living waters.
                                                                                                                              Peace, John
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Offline rosered

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2010, 08:34:20 PM »
 :thumbsup:    well said,  John .. :icon_flower:

Offline Seth

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2010, 10:21:17 PM »
Yes, well said  :thumbsup:

Ephesians 2
3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


The point: We were once slaves to the flesh and the "cravings of our sinful nature, following its desires and thoughts" being therefore objects of wrath under the Law.

The solution, to be saved by Grace not by works of the law, but by being created in Christ Jesus to do good works, therefore being HIS workmanship. The question is naturally, HOW are we saved by grace, which eaglesway is basically saying, which is:

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching (Gk. paiduo - chastening, chastising) us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


There you have it. Grace teaches us to be redeemed from all iniquity, to be purified, to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts: SALVATION FROM SIN. Whoo hoo!

But that is so key to what eaglesway is saying, which is that the grace does not come by our own selves, because works of the LAW, by the LETTER and not by the Spirit have no power to teach us (through chastisement - "despise thou not the chastening of the Lord") what Titus 2 says grace does teach us.

Offline peacemaker

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2010, 05:56:15 AM »
Characterized by kindness and love.

peacemaker

Offline eaglesway

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #79 on: February 21, 2010, 09:33:25 AM »
Amen peacemaker, This "character" is the divine nature. Grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, which includes legalism, self righteousness and the traditions of men, in addition to the sins that everybody "knows" such as witchcraft, fornication, theft and drunkenness. Today, the religious sins such as emulations, factiousness(party spirit), selfish ambition and outbursts of wrath are frequently ignored because we are not teaching Christianity as being pre-eminently about partaking in the divine nature- "For all those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son." The grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness precisely because it enables us to become partakers of the divine nature- lovers of righteousness chiefly characterized by kindness and love.

   The Pharisees were not, for the most part I believe, fornicators and witches and drunkards, yet they did not have the love of God in them, they crucified the son of God, and I fear we crucify Him afresh all to often today, doing despite to the Spirit of Grace, through our religious sins and quenching the Holy Spirit.

   I love those verses Seth, and I note that it is both the lusts of the flesh and of the mind that the process of sanctification is working out of us. The "gnosis" approach to Christ is often just the pleasures of the mind  approaching the Logos as if it were a system of logic rather than the living oracle of God. The Holy Spirit sanctifies us through blood(mercy), water(teaching) and fire(discipline) until the love is manifestly flowing in and through all our devotion and service to God, and our fellowship with people. Awesome isn't it?

Rom 5:1-5  Having been declared righteous, then, by faith, we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ,  through whom also we have the access by the faith into this grace in which we have stood, and we boast on the hope of the glory of God. And not only so , but we also boast in the tribulations, knowing that the tribulation doth work endurance; and the endurance, experience; and the experience, hope; and the hope doth not make ashamed, because the love of God hath been poured forth in our hearts through the Holy Spirit that hath been given to us.

To the Praise of the Glory of His Grace, John

« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 10:47:22 AM by eaglesway »
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Offline Seth

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #80 on: February 21, 2010, 07:51:52 PM »
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Offline peacemaker

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #81 on: February 21, 2010, 10:02:01 PM »
Awesome isn't it?

A beautiful revelation, Eaglesway.


dmatic

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2010, 11:47:22 PM »
Good posts eaglesway...may I ask a question?  (I know, I just did  :laughing7:)

You wrote:
Quote
Grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, which includes legalism, self righteousness and the traditions of men...

May i ask how you define legalism...because I think grace also teaches us to deny "illegalism".

Peace, dmatic

Offline eaglesway

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2010, 03:15:09 AM »
Hi d, Sorry, this is a little long- but it is what it is..... my answer  :laughing7:

Rom 2:28-29  For he is not a Jew who is so outwardly, neither is circumcision that which is outward in flesh;  but a Jew is he who is so inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, of which the praise is not of men, but of God.

In romans chapters 1 & 2 Paul teaches us that those who keep the law written in their hearts are jews even if they don't know it. He also teaches that Jews who stand on the law but do not know the heart of the lawgiver are not Jews, though they have Jewish parents and knowledge of the law and the prophets, as our Lord also taught( I can from these stones raise up children to Abraham.....Think not you have Abraham as your father.....You are like Cain....The devil is your father)

Rom 7:4-6  Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.  For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Only a revelation of Jesus Christ suffices for righteousness, but that revelation is a manifestation of love and known only by God who sees (heb 4:12) the secrets of the heart, "Many will say unto Me on that day 'Lord, Lord'....I will tell them depart from me you lawless ones I never knew you." "Knowing" Jesus- a union of love in a broken and a contrite heart- is the new law that fulfills the old law. The old husband of the righteous is dead, the new husband is "the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus." Such as are in Him through this new love covenant do not serve sin, because they are in the new nature- tho they still wrestle with the world, the flesh and the devil. The mark of the prize of their "upward call" is to overcome.

2Co 3:1-18  You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,  who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation( OT law) has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness(Christ in you) abound in glory.  For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory. Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.  But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit(by the Spirit of the Lord).

Those who are still in the letter have a veil over their faces. When they read the word they only see the letter. They cannot receive the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God, so they do not know the hope of their calling, the riches of His inheritance in the saints and the surpassing greatness of His power towards us who believe(Ephesians 1:12). They are falling in the wilderness. They cannot enter the promised land. They are walking in circles under the discipline of God, yet with his grace- but outside His rest.

Rom 10:1-4  Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.  For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Misplaced zeal is often at the heart of "legalism" which is approaching the new covenant from the letter, from the commandments, from the mind-first soul. It is those who are led by the Spirit who are the sons of God, they are being transformed by the renewing of their minds, serving in the newness of the Spirit, not in the fading oldness of the letter. When you have "Christ in you the hope of glory" you do not need the law, you have the divine nature, the mind of Christ, the incorruptible seed of the living word and the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth.

Gal 4:1-5  Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything,  but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,  so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Gal 4:22-26  For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai(Heb 12:18-21) in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above(Heb12:22-25) is free; she is our mother.


Their are many Christians who are like Ismael, fathered by the spirit (Abraham) but mothered by the law (Hagar) and acting like Ishmael- they have a blessing and are a great nation but "their hands is against every man"(divisive, not united, no peace). Their are also Christians who are fathered by the spirit (Abraham) and mothered by Sarah ( our mother- the new Jerusalem from above who is free) but they are babes, so they are no different than slaves, they are "kept under tutors" until they grow in grace and begin to see the glorious freedom of the sons of God. We seek to bring people into a love relationship with Jesus that produces life. "Legalism" keeps the redeemed in slavery to man-made traditions based in wrong interpretations of the law of God and the unrighteous stewardships of men rather than the freedom that is ours in Christ.
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dmatic

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #84 on: March 02, 2010, 11:13:07 PM »
Thank you eaglesway for your answer! I have been pondering it for a while now, but have not had much time for communication. Your definition of legalism is:
Quote
"legalism" which is approaching the new covenant from the letter, from the commandments, from the mind-first soul.
I'm not sure what the mind-first soul is. I have been led to understand that the mind is within the soul. Certainly, we are instructed to be led by the Spirit.  This may happen as we are transformed, by the renewing of our minds, by the washing of the water of the Word...then we may be able to know and approve of God's will for us which is revealed through his Word...isn't it? (I'm not sure of the distinction here)  Are you saying that we should not read the letters of the Word from God?  Presumably you are not saying that.

You wrote:
Quote
Those who are still in the letter have a veil over their faces. When they read the word they only see the letter. They cannot receive the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God, ...
  I have formerly understood that those with a veil still over their faces, are those who have not yet come to Christ.

Quote
Rom 10:1-4  Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.  For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Misplaced zeal is often at the heart of "legalism" which is approaching the new covenant from the letter, from the commandments, from the mind-first soul. It is those who are led by the Spirit who are the sons of God, they are being transformed by the renewing of their minds, serving in the newness of the Spirit, not in the fading oldness of the letter. When you have "Christ in you the hope of glory" you do not need the law, you have the divine nature, the mind of Christ, the incorruptible seed of the living word and the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth.
This idea that we don't need the law...just seems so foreign to me.  I know that many have put away the law...but I don't think we are instructed so to do.

I must again depart....please forgive me for not being able to finish this....

peace, dmatic

Offline eaglesway

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #85 on: March 03, 2010, 07:37:42 AM »
    When I say mind-first soul I am speaking of head over heart; or mentality over spirituality; or tree of knowledge of good and evil over tree of life. We are to be "renewed in the spirit of our minds". The renewal is a broken and a contrite heart, the prize of the pure in spirit. As far as the law, their are two different laws being discussed- not just one. The law in tablets of stone, or written in ink is one, the law written on tablets of human hearts by the Spirit is the other. If you read 2 Corinthians 3:15-18 you can see both. One is a law of the letter, the other is a law of transforming fellowship with Christ.  It is a law of agape- "unconditional love" and a law of koinonea- "fellowship".
   In this intimate pursuit of God, the desire to be in union with the Spirit drives our righteousness. We have died to the old law, crucified with Christ. We are made alive in the new law, the inner man being empowered by the Spirit to reckon as dead the old man, and mortify the deeds of the flesh. We press into the new man by grace through faith.
    The veiled are all who cannot see the revelation of "Christ in you the hope of glory". Many who have "come to Christ" are veiled to much of the grace of God because "the traditions of men make the word of no effect". They are essentially like Ismael, who had a father of spirit(Abraham) and a mother of slavery(Hagar) (see Galatians ch.3&4). The son of the bondwoman cannot receive an inheritance with the son of the slave woman. Those who see "the glorious liberty of the sons of God", which is "the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus", are like Israel, who had a Sarah for his mother. She corresponds to the heavenly Jerusalem who is our mother and is free. We must not use our freedom for the flesh, or to serve ourselves, or it will become another kind of bondage....but we do not go back under the law if we have been set free through the revelation of Jesus Christ. "For freedom Christ has set you free, why  submit again to a yoke of bondage". "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free".
   I am also pressed for time, so I have not placed all the scriptural references in this as I usually do, and some of it will be hard to understand for you at this point, but you need to go into the Word and seek. The secrets of the universe cannot be unveiled in 15 minute exchanges :wink1:. The letters to the Romans and the Galatians are particularly needful in understanding these distinctions. I am also glad to continue exchanging with you as I can.... Peace, John
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Offline peacemaker

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #86 on: March 03, 2010, 07:55:28 AM »
Do we receive the Spirit by the works of the law (the letter) or by its intended purpose, the reason for which something exists?

When you obey the letter of the law, not the Spirit, you are following the literal interpretation of words; not the intent of the ONE who wrote the law. However, when you follow the SPIRIT of that law (not the strict interpretation), you are obeying the Authors intended purpose.

In other words, 65 m.p.h. may be the legal speed limit, but driving safely under certain condition might be better if you slowed-down. Thus, the spirit of the law should prevail; drive safely.

In the same vein of preserving life (the Spirit of the law), you might need to drive a bit faster to the hospital?

peacemaker

Offline eaglesway

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #87 on: March 03, 2010, 08:11:24 AM »
     In the early chapters of the book of Genesis we read that Abel went out and took of the firstling of his flock to offer in sacrifice to God. "Thefirst of his flock" indicates not merely the firstborn, but the very best, a lamb without spot or blemish. But Cain, his brother, took of the fruit of the ground for his offering. In Abel's sacrifice we find a beautiful picture of our Lord Jesus Christ, for Christ was the firstling of the flock, the firstborn of many brethren, the beginning of the creation of God, and out of the whole family of mankind He was the most excellent specimen, unsurpassed in purity of character, excellence of mind and body, and all attributes of divine nature. But then again we still have the same scenario of Cain, people are still offering to God out of the fruit of their human efforts, the best the flesh can produce. It is a great fact, however, that the best we can produce of ourselves is Adam, and old Adam is not good enough, he's not acceptable. In the living out of the life of sonship, which is the life of Christ, we are not talking about modifying the carnal mind, we're not talking about overhauling Adam. The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be! You can make Adam memorize as much scripture as you can, go to church every Sunday, sing in the choir, learn all the doctrines, do every kind of good work, lay the law on him and force him to act like a saint, but he's still not acceptable in the sight of God. Just as the dog returns to his vomit, and the hog to his wallowing, so the corruption of the Adam man will eventually break out, revealing him to be exactly who he really is. Sonship is not about modifying the behavior of the old man, the man of earth. It's about putting on the life of Christ, the firstling of the flock, a new creation in the image and likeness of God! Don't struggle, dear one, with old Adam with his weaknesses, failures, limitations and corruption. Give yourself to the putting on of Christ and themore you put Him on the more the Adamic nature will disappear as the snow before the noonday sun.

From an article by J. Preston Eby
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dmatic

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #88 on: March 09, 2010, 11:37:59 PM »
       In this intimate pursuit of God, the desire to be in union with the Spirit drives our righteousness. We have died to the old law, crucified with Christ. We are made alive in the new law, the inner man being empowered by the Spirit to reckon as dead the old man, and mortify the deeds of the flesh. We press into the new man by grace through faith.
   
Eaglesway, you stated somewhere that the old law is the one on tablets of stone, whereas the "new law" is presumably written on the hearts, within the covenanters.

I believe that the law is the same.  It is simply the location that has changed. You say we have died to the old law...but I think this is the old man. There is nothing wrong with the letters or words or spirit of the Law of God.

Admittedly, the writings of Paul can be hard to understand. Many use these translations of Paul to try to support thier lawlessnewss or thier belief that the law of God has been put to death or somthing like that.  Well, I'm going to have to try to continue on another computer because the lines keep jumping around here...

dmatic

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2010, 11:51:26 PM »
Sorry.  First, we know, according to Jesus' plain words that the law will not pass away until heaven and earth pass away and all are fulfilling it.  Matt 5:18.  Further, we know that those who break even the least of those commandments, or disregard them, and teach others to disregard them will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. v. 19.
    So, what to do with Rom 10:4 which you quoted..."For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." This does not mean that the law ends.  It means that the law's goal is the anointing of righteousness of Christ for the believer.
    What of Romans 7? What, or who dies? Does the law die? No. The husband of the wife dies.  This husband...is our old man.  (Our soul previously was married to the flesh of our old Adam) When our old man dies, we are set free BY THE LAW to marry another. The Law sets us free, as it does also the woman whose husband died.  The Law set her free to remarry. She is no longer bound to him.  As we are no longer bound to our old man!  We are free to remarry the New Man...the second Adam! But, this does not most certainly mean that we are not to adhere to the Law any longer does it?  Of course not. In fact, we should be preparing ourselves for the marriage.

You wrote:
Quote
Their are many Christians who are like Ismael, fathered by the spirit (Abraham) but mothered by the law (Hagar) and acting like Ishmael- they have a blessing and are a great nation but "their hands is against every man"(divisive, not united, no peace). Their are also Christians who are fathered by the spirit (Abraham) and mothered by Sarah ( our mother- the new Jerusalem from above who is free) but they are babes, so they are no different than slaves, they are "kept under tutors" until they grow in grace and begin to see the glorious freedom of the sons of God. We seek to bring people into a love relationship with Jesus that produces life. "Legalism" keeps the redeemed in slavery to man-made traditions based in wrong interpretations of the law of God and the unrighteous stewardships of men rather than the freedom that is ours in Christ.
I agree with a lot of this, but there goes the box, after filling up it keeps jumping and I can't see what I'm typing!

dmatic

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #90 on: March 09, 2010, 11:59:26 PM »
Ishmael was a product of Abram and Hagar. This represents the old covenant, where the obedience of man was supposed to produce the fruit of the Spirit....but, obviously, we couldn't do it...despite our best efforts!

The New Covenant is based on God working His plan within us. This fruit produced of the promise was of Abraham and Sarah.  Both of the parents had the Spirit of God Added to them, as signified by the additions to both of their names...their inward nautres were changed by God. Thus the child of the promise was born...miraculously!  Isaac.

You are right about many having the nature of Ishmael....still...but God is able to change it!  Christ in us the hope of glory!  Indeed!  But this does not mean that we don't need the Law anymore. Those who think that may end up like Solomon, who thought he knew the spirit of the law so he didn't need to keep the letter....and it cost him!  Well, it actually also cost his son....when the kingdom was divided from him!
Peace, dmatic

dmatic

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #91 on: March 10, 2010, 12:00:50 AM »
Of course I agree with you and Jesus about the traditions of men... while making the commandments of God of none effect!  Hopefully, you are not doing that by suggesting that we don't need the law anymore.

Peace, dmatic

Offline jabcat

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #92 on: March 10, 2010, 12:16:04 AM »
Comparing the old and new covenant, by Gary Amirault;

http://www.tentmaker.org/oldandnew.htm
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

dmatic

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #93 on: March 15, 2010, 09:07:24 PM »
Thank you for the reference jabcat. I printed the whole thing and started to read it at home, but was a bit dismayed when I came acroos some of the author's thoughts.  As:
Quote
It is often taught in seminary, church and Sunday school that the only difference between the Old Covenant and the New is that the Old Testament was written in stone while under the New Testament the very same law was written upon our hearts. This is simply false. The writer of Hebrews makes it quite clear that the New Covenant required a brand new law. Jesus makes all things new, including the law of the covenant.
It makes one wonder where the author gets this idea.  Actually, most of "Christianity" teaches what the author does regarding the Law of God.  Most, having become law-less, teach that the "Old Law" has been done away with and a "New Law" has replaced it! This teaching is not what the writers of the Scriptures had in mind when speaking of the righteous Law of God as given through Moses and the Prophets!  It is a twisting to be sure.

Anyway...if you would like to discuss this, or the author's perspectives, I would be happy to do so. I'll leave you with Jesus' opwn words regarding His Father's righteous Law... Whosoever, therefore, breaks even the very least of those commands, and teaches others to do so, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven...

Peace, dmatic

Offline rosered

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #94 on: March 15, 2010, 09:13:31 PM »
 


Koinonia is the anglicisation of a Greek word (κοινωνία) that means communion by intimate participation.

The word is used frequently in the New Testament of the Bible to describe the relationship within the early Christian church as well as the act of breaking bread in the manner which Christ prescribed during the Passover meal [John 6:48-69, Matthew 26:26-28, 1 Corinthians 10:16, 1 Corinthians 11:24].


 As a result the word is used within the Christian Church to participate, as Paul says, in the Communion of - in this manner it identifies the idealised state of fellowship and community that should exist - Communion.

 :cloud9:

dmatic

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #95 on: March 16, 2010, 11:14:58 PM »
Indeed, rosered!  Thank you. True communion is the goal.

Back to the article by Gary Amirault, jabcat, if I may...It appears that the author may not understand Paul's usage of the term "works of the law", in his last message concerning perfection. At any rate, in his writing on the differences between the Old and New Covenants, he presumes to be "under the New Covenant" and has access to the New City, the New Jerusalem.  Revelation 22:14 states the qualifications for those having right to enter through the gates into the city and to partake of the tree of life...Those who keep His commandments.

Hopefully, jabcat, you can see the errors contained within the article you quoted.

Peace, dmatic




Offline eaglesway

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #96 on: March 17, 2010, 01:24:24 AM »
Rom 13:8  Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

Gal 5:14  For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."


When Jesus died on the cross, He fulfilled the law-"No greater law has anyone than this- to lay down His life for a friend".

Those of us who have been crucified with Christ have died to the law contained in ordinances, and made alive in the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. This is the new commandment of our Lord- a life of sacrifice, yielding our bodies as living sacrifices, acceptable sacrifices because we have died, "Yielding all"- no longer living for ourselves but for Christ.

" I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life I live in the flesh I live by the faith of the son of God."

This incorruptible seed grows up in the nature of the One who is that seed- Christ, the new nature. The new man being created in the image of Christ. The reason not one jot or tittle of the law is lost is because it is fulfilled in Christ, for all those who have died to this world and taken on the new nature in the Spirit. These are the "plantings of the Lord, the oaks of righteousness and they are bearing the fruit of the Spirit-against which there is no law.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline jabcat

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #97 on: March 17, 2010, 01:29:39 AM »
Hi dmatic.  If the scripture actually said that, then my question would be, so do you believe our salvation and entrance into the city is based on works?  Or grace, as the scriptures teach?  And if somehow by works, or even if works are involved, then whose works?  Our own, or His through us - through His blood cleansing and redeeming us, and His Spirit and grace keeping us?  Because I believe any law we may keep is because it's written on our heart through the new spiritual birth - which is by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, or else WE could boast.  And we can't.  And if any law is kept without the new spiritual birth, and His Spirit doing it through us, then it really amounts to filthy rags and fit to be burned as chaff.  Because that amounts to our own righteousness, which ain't worth a hoot.

So, actually, a literal translation of that verse, Rev. 22:14 is "Happy are those who are rinsing their long robes, so that they might have a right to the Log of Life [formerly the Tree of Life (Gen. 2:9, 3:22)]".  So still by His blood, grace, and mercy.

That's how I understand it in a nutshell.  Jesus fulfilled the Law, the requirements of the Law, and His Spirit works the necessary works of righteousness through a saved, born again, Spirit-filled believer.  I'm not a big debater, that's how I see it, and we will see it however we do until God shows us something different...Thanks, James.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline jabcat

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #98 on: March 17, 2010, 01:30:41 AM »
Amen eaglesway...was posting as you did. 
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline sheila

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Re: the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"
« Reply #99 on: March 17, 2010, 06:02:47 PM »
   I do beleive you 'nailed' it to the cross with that last post

  EAGLESWAY......yeilding all....Annanais and Sapphira didn't

 and that was a sin against the Holy spirit.

   righteousness by works of law...is a trying to prove ourselves

righteous in ourselves[which is impossible] but righteousness

through GRACE and the free gift further exalts 'the

righteousness of God'.

   Pharisees and sadducees..when they did righteous

works..blew a trumpet to call attention to it, same with prayers

  trying to convince others or prove themselves.

   Righteousness of Christ through grace leaves off proving our

own righteousness[we can say, I am a sinner saved by grace]

and give HIM  the Glory[do your giving in secret and the Father

 who see's will reward you openly]

   I think the 'babylon' principle may just be tied up in this very

 thing! :mshock: