Author Topic: The Brooding Jesus.  (Read 3666 times)

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rebeccat

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2008, 02:43:34 AM »
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Many believe they actually control the Holy Spirit, as if it is here to serve them.

My goodness - such a thing has never even occurred to me.  I suppose I have heard people speak of "calling down the Holy Spirit" before, which could be seen as an attempt to control the Holy Spirit.  But neither this or the baby sitter role are remotely related to my experience of the Holy Spirit and why I say it is central to the life of a Christian.  (Also, I have no problem with a Triune God, with 3 co-equal parts.  It sounds like perhaps you don't entirely accept this idea.)

The reason I say that the Holy Spirit is central to the Christian life is because it is the instrument through which God actually executes the aionian life which Jesus opened the door to.  We do not grow in holiness, obedience, patience, love, generosity, etc, etc, through Jesus.  These are the work of the Holy Spirit.  However, most people, including most Christians, believe that these are the result of their own work rather than resulting from our dependence on the Holy Spirit to grow, purify and shape us.  I would not speak of the Holy Spirit as either something to be controlled or just an overseer.  Instead, I think the Holy Spirit is something which we need to be open to as Christians.  I believe that we work with the Holy Spirit to clear the way for the working of the Holy Spirit and obey its promptings.  I suppose you could say that Jesus opened the door for us, showed us where the door is, but it is the Holy Spirit which actually ushers us through the door to fuller and fuller communion with the Father. 


Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2008, 03:34:55 AM »
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Well I disagree with you on several issues.


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 (Also, I have no problem with a Triune God, with 3 co-equal parts.  It sounds like perhaps you don't entirely accept this idea.)Quote


No I do not accept this idea, I disagree with any type of trinity teaching, in whatever form it shows itself. Even Jesus is not equal to God, but he saying so himself is totally ignored by trinity believers. Just one of many areas where they ignore the very words of Christ. The Holy Spirit is a part of God, but it is not a part of his personage. It is an extension of his power, not his personality. Its his " Muscle", or his might. Our muscle, or our Power, is not a part of our personage, but it is a part of us. It is our energy, our source of strength. This is what the Holy Spirit is, only in Gods case, his energy is actually alive. I mean, thats just him, its how awesome he is. Gods Power, his energy, his Might, or his muscle, is alive. Its not another being within his personality, its an outer extension of his inner power. Or its his " Spirit", his raw energy. And he has seven of these " Spirits." Not just one Holy Spirit, but Seven of them. And I think they each are extensions of his Mind, or possibily " Minds." And we do not understand any one of them, muchless the seven.

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The reason I say that the Holy Spirit is central to the Christian life is because it is the instrument through which God actually executes the aionian life which Jesus opened the door to.  We do not grow in holiness, obedience, patience, love, generosity, etc, etc, through Jesus.  These are the work of the Holy Spirit.Quote

I certainly disagree with this. We grow through Jesus, and Jesus alone. The way I see people using this " Aionian Life", is meaningless. It means nothing. Just like their claims of having the Holy Spirit means nothing. All things are based on Jesus, not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was sent to comfort the people God is dealing with, not to represent Christ, or be Christ to them. Nothing can be Christ, but Christ. People don't even really know why the Spirit was sent, what it is and what it is charged to do.

The Spirit was sent to stimulate certain things, but Jesus gives the increase of those things.

And I will go into that.

Peace.




 

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2008, 03:48:05 AM »


What does the Spirit do? Again Jesus in John 14:26;" But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom my Father will send IN JESUS NAME, he will TEACH you all things, and help your memory concerning those things."

First off, the Spirit was " Sent in Jesus Name", not its own name. It was sent  by the commission of Christ, by the Power of God, neither of which is a " Self inititated thing." It was sent in Jesus name, meaning under Jesus direct authority and control.

Secondly , it was sent " To Help believers", to assist them. To comfort and protect, to teach, in other words, to baby sit them for the parent.

Now the Holy Spirit can teach knowledge, but God or Christ " Gives the Growth of that knowledge", the Holy Spirit does not cause a believer to grow in grace, it only helps knowledge. And it can do that without being perminently within the believer. Believers just have problems understanding this. They think because they are growing in knowledge, that they must have the Spirit within. I disagree with that.

The Holy Spirit is a helper, it helps. It is Jesus who is the True Power that be.

And I want to show you somethingelse.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2008, 04:04:27 AM »



Jesus called the Holy Spirit " The Helper", John 15:26, 16:7. Thats what the Holy Spirit is, its what it does, no matter what any believer is saying, this is what Christ has said. I take Christ word on it.

Its here to Help us. Its not here to be Christ or God. God and Christ are all in all, not the Holy Spirit.

But there is another reason the Holy Spirit was sent which has absolutely nothing to do with believers. John 16:8, it was sent also " To CONVICT" the world concerning Sin. This is what Jesus taught. It was sent to prove that the world is quilty before God. To literally " Impress" upon the world, the quilt of Sin. To bring to full belief, that sin is wrong, and to satisfy this quilt to God the Father. To show both the Father AND the world, the results of Sin. The EVIDENCE of Sin!

Just like the rain brings out the early mourning worms, the Holy Spirit brings out Sin, reveals it.

And I want to get into that.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2008, 05:03:43 PM »

For the Love of Christ controls us, 2Corinth.5:14. This is the true control over those being influenced by God, its Christ. Vs. 18;" Now all these things, ( or you can just say all things) are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and gave us the ministry of Reconciliation." We are reconciled to God through Christ, not the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit has very little to do with the ministry of reconciliation. Thats totally misunderstanding the Holy Spirit. Repentance does not come from the Holy Spirit, nor does restoration.

Not to be confused, the Holy Spirit is " Involved", but Christ is the backbone, the driving force, the " Mind and Power" behind reconciliation.

Continue closely on through vs.19;" Namely, that God was IN Christ, ( Not the Holy Spirit, but the Father himself) reconciling the world to himself. The Father didNOT do this through the Holy Spirit, but entered himself into Christ Mind and heart. He PERSONALLY did this, and this simple stated fact is overlooked and misunderstood by believers.

And LISTEN, there will come a time that the Father will directly communicate to a believer, bypassing the Holy Spirit, and he himself will entreat you, then you will be linked directly to him. Read vs. 20;" Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were entreating through us." This is future tense, now, its done through the Holy Spirit, and thats part of what the Holy Spirit is. A temporary link between God and the Believer, who is NOT yet given direct access to God, but a LINK to God! See believers think the Holy Spirit gives you direct access to the Father, that is nonsense, it does not. Its just what YOU think it does. YOU like to believe you have direct access to the Father, but really, the presence of the Holy Spirit, is ABSOLUTE PROOF, that there is a " Link between you and the Father!" Its a go between, it helps you establish a link that can connect you with the Father, AFTER the communication has gone through several channels.

And I want to get into that.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2008, 05:33:42 PM »


Now the Holy Spirit has two main aspects, or you can say functions on earth reguarding believers. But it can be catagorized by one word, " Helper". It helps. But it teachs you and guides your mind, or influences your thought process. John 14: 16-17, 26. Read these verses closely. The Holy Spirit is " Sent In Christ Name", don't forget that. Don't start worshipping the Holy Spirit, you are NOT to do that! Worship God and Christ ALONE!

The Holy Spirit teaches you, and DOES NOT have to be in you to do that. Oh one day it will be in you, but YOU cannot, MUST NOT, choose that day! You can throw that day into your life because you had some sentimental emotional experience. You can't create that day because you almost died or lost everything. You cannot duplicate the giving of the Holy Spirit, just because its influencing you. It is there, IN your mind, bringing things to the forefront of your mind, that God and Christ have ALREADY PLANTED! The Holy Spirit is just bringing it to your memory. Inticing your  recall, God has already dealt with your subconscious mind, but I am going too deep. I don't want to confuse, by getting too far ahead.

Just because the Holy Spirit " Enters a human Mind", does NOT mean it remains. That does NOT mean it STAYS there! It does not mean you have the Holy Spirit perminently. And OH how many believers have seriously jumped the gun on this. John 1:33;" And I didnot reconize him, but he who sent me to baptize in water said to me, " He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and" REMAINING" upon him, this is the one who Baptizes in the Holy Spirit."

The Spirit REMAINING! Meaning it stays there, its not just visitation. See this is what I now have, the Spirit " Visiting", it does not remain. It just comes and goes as IT pleases. I don't try to deceive myself or others by claiming it is remaining. I don't let my greed for Spiritual pascification try to manipulate Gods Holy Spirit. I know its not in me perminently. Oh, don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to have it, I NEED it to stay, but it does not. Its not my time. May never be my time, I simply do not know, and I simply cannot control that. But many others are trying to control that, manipulate that, they ARE NOT making there calling and election sure, because their whole starting point is corrupted by this simple point. They just CANNOT get over this hump, they CANNOT see themselves as being temporary helped by the Holy Spirit, they desire it ALL. NOW!

This is one of the greatest blindspots I am aware of, and a great barrier to the essence of the Truth, AND, a " Brooding source" for Christ. It truly bothers him that this is going on.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2008, 07:19:42 PM »


The Holy Spirit teachs you about " Spiritual AND carnal knowledge." We are destined to know both good and evil, but the desire of many is just to know good. They can't handle the evil, espically the evil about themselves. So they are attracted only to the good, saying to the Holy Spirit;" Prophesy good things about me", but the job of the Spirit is to help you know God AND yourself! You need to know the bad in you, what it is, how it works, the level of weakness it will produce. Oh but so many believers gloss over this, thinking their sins are forgiven and do not need to be examined. They live in this " High society sinless world within their minds", where they actually escape their sins by ignoring them, as if that is spiritual.

Notice Jesus in Matt.10:26;" There is NOTHING covered that willNOT be revealed, and hidden that willNOT be Known." Blessed is the man who's sins are covered. Thats as far as some believers can go, or care to go, they like their sins being covered. But NOTHING covered, including our sins, willnot be revealed. And when you begin to rightly devide the Holy Spirit, you will begin to comprehend that it is teaching, showing YOU, uncovering your sins " TO YOU", so that YOU can rightly discern your weaknesses. You willNOT try to escape the Knowledge of your own sin, you will learn from that. And it will cause you to brood yourself. Or meditate on these things, think them over, " Chew on them", digest and spiritually discern your sin.

One of the greatest Strengths a believer can have, is the ability and GIFT, to discern your own sin.

But the forces that be are leading certain believers away from that, and down the road of totally ignoring their sins.

The sword Jesus came to bring on earth, is the battle with sin. You cannot have Peace within yourself, unless and until this battle is fought, and understood why it is being fought.  Some believers view Christ as fighting that battle, winning it, so they do not have to fight it, they need only to live in the benefits of it. This type of mindset eaisly robs the kingdom for itself, and takes it by violence. The violence of being totally ignorant of what they have done , and continue to do. Keep on living in an illusion, keep on defering the truth, keep on manipulating God, the continual repetition of this ignorance, is taking the Kingdom by violence. It is violent to keep on doing something, and NEVER consider if it is wrong to do.

Let me get into the Faith of Christ, and show you something critical about his moods.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2008, 09:45:22 PM »
Quote from: Mickiel
Let me get into the Faith of Christ, and show you something critical about his moods.

Peace.
[/quote

Look, its a very hard thing to get into the Faith of Christ, its an intense study, not for the lazy or shallow intrest. You got to dig, and there are few old testement scriptures that even mention Faith or Christ. IF there are any. Its as if these are complettely new covenant realitys. Oh, the new covenant speaks about the faith of certain people, but the old covenant does not go into Faith in detail, nor Christ in detail.

In Hebrews 12:2, Jesus is called the Author and Finisher of our Faith, not the Holy Spirit. Jesus begins and accomplishes our conscious and unconscious belief in him.

One of the greatest examples of Jesus Faith in God, is when he endured the cross of suffering and ultimately death. We have not resisted to the point of shedding blood in our striving against sin, Hebrews 12:4. We have not got to that level of committment, and that level will dilute a sure number of public believers. God disciplined Jesus on the cross and scourged him himself. Made an example of him, Heb. 12:5-6. Those whom God Loves, he scourges. He will afflict you greatly. The greater the affliction, the greater the purpose. Certain believers really want no part in this, they seek to live without it, to escape the afflicition of God. Notice Heb. 12:8, " For if you are without discipline, of which we ALL have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Its just that plain and clear. Through suffering, the peaceful fruit of righteousness is born, vs.11.

The Faith of Christ was perfected in his sufferings, and his sufferings produced his Broodings.

Let me get a little more into his Faith.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2008, 12:53:41 AM »


Before the physical world was, Jesus was with God. Once God devised and revealed his plan to Christ, Jesus had to live from that moment on, knowing that he must be reduced to the flesh, stripped of his Glory, and made to take on the sins of an entire planets history. And then be tortured and killed. Man you talking about something to brood over, meditate over, something that stays within your mind, that has got to be intense for Christ, who IS Life!. He is Life because God made him to be Life.

Now Life is being required to Die!

In this senerio, the Father was actually creating another aspect of Jesus responsibility and Power, the Father was creating the " Ressurection." Through Jesus, ( the conduit) a way had to be made to bring humanity back to life, in a manner that wouldnot condemn them to death again. Through Jesus, ( the conduit) a way had to be devised for all of humanitys sins to be covered. So were discussing the awesome mind of a being who is the " Conduit of all things." And if you get into this, you are getting into the Mind of Christ, beginning to understand how he thinks.

Jesus is VERY concerned about us having Life, and having it eternally. He's going to get you your eternal life. He's going to get it man.

Reherse that thought constantly within your mind : Hes going to get you your eternal life.

But let me get into his mind a little further.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2008, 02:02:11 AM »

Jesus had been accustomed to speaking with the Father directly, he never had to pray to him. His mind had never been tampered with by the Father before. Now placed within the flesh, the Father tampered with his mind, humbling his great awesome mind, to live as a human child. A human teenager, an adult that had no ideal who he was until it was revealed to him. Now he must speak with God through prayer, a definte reduction of his former communication with the Father, his former glory was weighting on him.

This was another source of Jesus brooding.

And it shaped and designed a far different relationship than before with his Father.

And I want to go into that relationship.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2008, 02:26:50 AM »


Jesus close exposure to the Father, made him the being that he is. Up close and personal with ultimate Goodness, radiant perfection, all encompassing purity and Holiness. Its addicting and eluminating, I envy Christ. This is what Jesus was denied as he grew to maturity and began to know who he was. Once his mind was allowed full comprehension, he longed for his Father, something the Father perhaps tried to shorten for him. God knew Jesus would go through this.

Absense makes the Heart grow funder.

Jesus time as a human created a different perspective for him,  gave even Christ a more defined view of his Father. It also gave Christ a good view of us humans, setting the stage for a Savior that is unique.

A stage in the past, present and future, this egnigmatic Christ, whos mind is still being shaped by the Father.

And I want to continue of Jesus.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2008, 02:39:24 AM »


Jesus and his Father, the majestic Word and the everliving Father. When these two get together, all that is, is decided. All that exist is dependant on them. Oh what conversations these must be. Oh how wonderful these joining of the minds must be. In these moments, the real drama of life itself is played out. As Iron sharpens Iron, these are the real movements of Life itself. Pure reality conditions itself during these two getting together.

And from this comes the true mind of Christ.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2008, 05:19:54 AM »


Now if you want to know God, you got to get to know Christ first. John 6:44, no one can come to Christ, unless the Father draws them to Christ. Its a team effort, a work of unity. God " Sent Jesus", the Father who sent me must draw them. The Father " Sent him" to be the Savior of the world. The Father sent out his invitations to the wedding, and it is Jesus who we met first. Or will meet first.

Now, I have not met Christ, so I am learning what it is to be without him. Through that experience, I understand that I must first meet Christ, in order to meet the Father. I meet humans all the time, but that space of emptyness within me, is longing to meet Jesus. As Jesus longed to be back with his Father, I learn to long to meet my maker. This is how the hunger and thirst for righteousness is created in humans. First show them what it is, Jesus. Then show them they are without. Then fill the need.  God may require 50 years in the desert, before he fills the need.

Now today we live in the age of instant gradification, where we think we no longer need to wait, but have it all  right now. We tend to think we control Gods rotary organizer. So we miss out on the years of learning through suffering.

Jesus was given a taste of the suffering, now we have a Savior that is personally aware of the hurt and pain. Jesus actually speaks with the Father concerning us all. And from that I believe the principle of never putting us through things we cannot bear was created. We can only endure so much, which is why the doctrine of eternal hell suffering is insane.

Jesus said I do nothing from my own will. Here we have a Savior that the Father has given everything over too, yet he still insist on doing nothing from his own mind. THAT is the Faith of Christ!

And I want to get more into that Faith of his.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2008, 12:52:46 AM »

Jesus creativeness is also evidence of his great faith in God, and Gods Faith in him. Christ created the human race with the expectation that the Father would save them all. And he has Faith in that, or he wouldnot reproduce so many failures. Creation in so many numbers is proof of Christ Faith in God.

And I want to show more of evidence of Christ Faith.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2008, 01:28:50 AM »

In the book of Colosians it states that all things were created by Christ, AND For him. For him to organize, to produce, to have and to hold. So humanitys Salvation, very salvation, is evidence of Christ Faith. Our Lives, our very lives, are based on Christ Faith in God. Our deaths will be based on Christ Faith. Our future is based on Christ Faith.

But Christ Faith is different from ours. His Faith is not based on things he cannot see, because he has great sight. His Faith IS based on the Father God.

And I want to get into that.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2008, 03:12:30 AM »
[quote author=Mickiel
But Christ Faith is different from ours. His Faith is not based on things he cannot see, because he has great sight. His Faith IS based on the Father God.

And I want to get into that.

Peace.
[/quote]

Christ is not just dreaming about our eternity, he knows its real. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, but remember and believe that Christ is also the first and the last, the beginning and the end of human history. He KNOWS our future, he does not need to Hope for it. The Father and Christ are not hoping for our future, they have CREATED it!

Humanity is an investment of God, through Jesus Christ we have MORE than Hope for our future, we HAVE a future! The present may seem harsh and trying, the hurt is very hard at times. Jesus broods over our pain, he certainly does. But we are garenteed our future through his absolute Faith in his Fathers ways and means.

The Father is absolute in his characther, his extraordinary way of bringing his will into fruitition, is the very essence of Christ Faith. Jesus has repeatedly seen for eons, the ways and means of his Father. Over and over again, perhaps billions of times, witnessed his Father accomplish his ultimate will. Jesus mind and Faith was super conditioned by being right next to the Father for so long. This will automatically produce the greatest Faith possible, being so close to God, for so long.

And I want to open that up more.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: The Brooding Jesus.
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2008, 04:47:09 AM »


I wanted to close this post out by saying  We have a Savior who is understanding of our whole relm of experiences, and personally went through some himself. Even our most high savior has emotions , even he has moods and a mind that thinks deeply about things. Not that we need to keep Jesus human, but he did become a human, and was changed back into eternal. Proving that it will happen to us also.

Sometimes I find myself doubting this whole thing, my Faith grows weak. I feel far from Christ, his Regal existance beyond me. It gets to be a bit much for me. Writting about him is a release, but it makes me long for him. I know how much I need him, and have yet to get to know him.

I know it will be quite something if I am ever to get to know him.

Peace.