Author Topic: The 2 thieves  (Read 1022 times)

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Quaesitor

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The 2 thieves
« on: November 30, 2010, 01:14:35 AM »
Lately I thought about christianity and how they divide people in two neat and distinct groups : the saved and the damned.

Then I remembered the 2 thieves on each sides of Jesus.
One of them was given the grace of believing minutes before physically dying, though he had been dead for his whole life, and he was told that he'd be in paradise.
Now everytime christians read that story, all they see is the other thief going to hell.
Nowhere does the text says that but that's just how they've learned to think.

It's as if being with two man on a road home, one asks for water and I answer that I'm gonna give him fresh cold water when we arrive, it doesn't mean that I'm gonna beat the other one with a baseball bat!

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 01:22:49 AM »

I always thought the other two were Adam and Satan.

Quaesitor

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 01:30:07 AM »

I always thought the other two were Adam and Satan.

Interesting thought.

The 1st man and adversity crucified along the Messiah but only Christ is raised from the dead.

Offline thinktank

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 01:38:35 AM »
Interesting, that the punishment for the thiefs crime is crucifixtion, the same as Jesus. If the thief went to hell, then so should Jesus, for he laid upon himself the sins of the world. Either he was asleep/dead, or in the depths of sheol, such as Jonah in the whale but preaching to other spirits, how could he be in ET hell?


Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 01:39:38 AM »

But we must drink of this cup.

Offline marie glen

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 06:31:25 AM »
Greetings! Allegorically, the two theives on some level may very well represent Adam and Satan. Great oint to ponder! Yet they were still literal men, as Jesus was suffering a roman punishment/execution (and since one believed, Jesus said to him "I tell you today - you will be with me in paradise" an allegory of the state of perfection, yet also a quite literal domain, reality and even place.. which place will (literally) include the earth after the long 2nd advent of Christ, also literal as was the first advent of Christ (unlike what the gnostics thought, that it was allegorical/didn't really happen).
"If a stranger enters the room & all are talking in strange tongues, how will they understand?"

"Who is This!? That even the wind and the waves obey Him?" ~ Mt 8:27

Offline thinktank

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2010, 09:34:02 PM »
I hope in your allegory that it is Adam that Jesus says "you will be with me in paradise too"

 :icon_joker:

Offline claypot

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2010, 12:50:13 AM »
good insight here. the 2 thieves. hmmmmmm. i think of the words 'out of the same lump God created vessels of honor and dishonor'. i see the two thieves as the 2 aspects of all people. i see in me an essence that wants to be what God wants me to be and i see an essence that fights this. 2 thieves, one going the right way yet immature and one going the wrong way, destined to die.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline CHB

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2010, 01:07:58 AM »
Interesting, that the punishment for the thiefs crime is crucifixtion, the same as Jesus. If the thief went to hell, then so should Jesus, for he laid upon himself the sins of the world. Either he was asleep/dead, or in the depths of sheol, such as Jonah in the whale but preaching to other spirits, how could he be in ET hell?

Hi thanktank,

You are right. When you think about it, the punishment in hell that most think the wicked will go through hasn't been paid. Like you said, if the thief went to hell then Jesus should have went also, if not for himself, then for the whole world. If hell was the punishment one must endure why isn't Jesus there paying that debt for us? If eternal death is true then the same should apply. Jesus would have to stay dead to pay that debt for us. Neither of these debts have been paid for anyone.

CHB

Offline claypot

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 01:20:20 AM »
both are thieves in that i am robbed of all the good God has for me. the one thief is going the right way yet immature while the other one is just plain nasty.

whitewings, were you suggesting in an earlier post that perfect means mature? this is how i see it.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Quaesitor

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 04:33:46 AM »
I know I wrote thieves but they weren't really that.
IIRC, they were zealots.
Crucifixion was the punishment for rebellion not mere thievery.

Offline claypot

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 04:40:01 AM »
rebellion or zealotry has also robbed me of much.

there is a good rebellion (the maturing zealot, the one whose eyes were starting to open) and there is bad or unproductive rebellion represented by the zealot that needed 'eternal' death.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 08:58:52 AM »
whitewings, were you suggesting in an earlier post that perfect means mature? this is how i see it.
Can't remember that. Perhaps you mean the post about goats and sheep on the left and right hand. The word used to translate goat from does also mean young animal. Young=untrained.
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/the_sheep_and_goat_8659.msg105802.html#msg105802
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline eaglesway

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Re: The 2 thieves
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2010, 09:12:24 PM »
Wow.....what a bunch of great thoughts in this thread. I am edified. :cloud9:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com