Author Topic: Punishment Without Purpose Is Perversion!  (Read 1290 times)

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rockclimber

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Punishment Without Purpose Is Perversion!
« on: October 15, 2007, 03:07:58 PM »
This came from a commentary that i read. Your thoughts please.
And that is exactly what an eternal hell would be! Think about it! Why would God want to torment and burn (how does that work, even metaphorically?) someone in this place called hell (a fictional word from the Dante's Divine Comedy)? Doesn't infinite punishment for finite sins seem a bit severe? Where's the LOVE? Seriously, if God is love, and you can't read the New Testament and not come to that conclusion, tell me how this is love. If God is JUST, and I believe He is, how can anyone say this is justice? Seriously!

The Hollywood depiction of hell needs to come to an end!

The Fundamentalist characterization of hell does not work! It's sadistic.

The religious-church doctrines of hell have been used to control and threaten people for centuries and it's NOT WORKING! People are not going to quit doing crap and self-serving stuff just because of a threat of hell- that most don't believe in anyway. Want people to respond?

Try LOVE!

Love is what Jesus came to show us and it's the glue of the Kingdom. Love should be the focus, not hell. I believe that there will be a form of divine judgment. Let me make sure you hear that (God is just). But the divine punishment (only God knows what that is) isn't eternal, purposefuless, or sadistic as such would be. Romans 14:10 and II Cor. 5:10 give us some clues along this line. But whatever God does if for redemptive purposes or restoration.

That's what LOVE does- that's who God IS!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2007, 04:30:49 AM by rockclimber »

gatheredfragments

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Re: Punishment Without Purpose Is Perversion!
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2007, 06:20:14 PM »
Mar 3:1  And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.
Mar 3:2  And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
Mar 3:3  And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
Mar 3:4  And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
Mar 3:5  And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

 :HeartThrob:
Heb 10:14  For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15  Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18  Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19  Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20  By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21  And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22  Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23  Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Heb 10:24  And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:


Michele

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Re: Punishment Without Purpose Is Perversion!
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2007, 06:43:22 PM »
IMO.....hell isn't a place that we can only enter into in the afterlife.......look around.....there are people that are going through hell right now. :sigh:  Hell is basically the experience of seperation from God.

When we experience separation......we suffer....and there is a reason God allows suffering.  IMO.....suffering has a way of bringing our heart back to God, and restoring us.......making us stronger. :HeartThrob:

"blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh" (Luke 6:21a).


shibboleth

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Re: Punishment Without Purpose Is Perversion!
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2007, 05:14:14 PM »
Doesn't life seem so unfair at times? I used to wonder about babies born into abject poverty and the babies born with every need met. Why? Does God love one baby more than the other? No, but, He has chosen where and when we will be born and who our parents will be. So, right from the start of our lives the fairness and unfairness of life show up.

If there is a hell, then why can't those who are going there have the very best life? They should be pampered and treated royaly so they can have all those good memories while they are roasting and toasting forever. But, because of the unfairness in life, many people who are "going to hell" have lives of poverty, abuse, torture, pain, hunger, thirst, and misery. This isn't just every once and awhile, this is their daily life. 

Which one of us can look at the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 and not say we are more like the rich man? Yet, we are told, he went to hell because he was rich. (I know what the meaning of this parable is, and won't go into detail now.) I'm only bringing up the point that all the hellfire preachers use this to differinciate between those in heaven and hell when they themselves live more like the rich man than Lazarus. Does the word hypocrite seem like a good word to use for their foolishness?

Since I learned about UR, I have been able to have love and compassion for all those the world thinks of as losers and nobodies. I see the heart of my Father pouring out his love for them even when they reject Him or don't know HIm the way so many of us here do.

martincisneros

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Re: Punishment Without Purpose Is Perversion!
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2007, 11:02:54 AM »
I don't think that the Hollywood depiction of Hell needs to end any more than the Hollywood depiction of other planets needs to end.  It's good entertainment.  And it reflects their religious views or their shared mockery with us of certain religious ideas.  Now, if we want better/different, then we've got to raise a few dollars and go and make our own movies.  Otherwise, it's just pointless.  You're just criticizing people for doing their jobs according to their company policies and enjoying all of their corporate corruption, but I'll stop there on that soapbox.

Punishment is never without purpose in either the ET or UR scenarios.  The questions that need to be answered aren't about which is more reasonable, as though we were Unitarians, but which is more Biblical and which best fits in with the purposes and durations of all of God's punishments revealed throughout the whole Old Testament.  God threw Israel to the 4 corners of the world and promised that though they were absolute filth and disgust in His sight that He'd bring them back and fulfill His purposes for them as a Covenant people for the sake of Abraham's and for His own Holy Name's sake, though not for their sake in the least.  There's the pattern there for His dealings with the whole world.  And what some may recognize and criticize as Zionism on my part isn't inherently wrong from that standpoint if you recognize it as a pattern of God's dealings with the whole world that He turns man to destruction so that afterwards He can say, "Return ye children of men" Psalm 90, I'm thinking verse 4 but that may need to be corrected by others. 

I'll leave this as an open question for the more advanced Bible scholars among us to answer 'cause it's an honest question of mine as well:

Is there a single nation in the Old Testament that God totally OBLITERATED and "sent to Hell" that the same Old Testament doesn't promise an ultimate restoration to?  An honest question for those of you that study UR much more deeply than I do.  Is there a single nation or tribe in the Old Testament that God "sends to Hell" that He doesn't promise a restoration to outside of Paul's epistles?  I'm genuinely curious and want to know before I'm dogmatic on that as an interesting point.

If there is, then that can possibly stand for those punished to the ages of ages that are only brought back after every single OTHER judgment AND promise is fulfilled, when it's finally time at long last to destroy death after the Lake of Fire has done it's work and Christ is moments away from resigning His commission in 1Corinthians 15:28.

If there isn't, then I'll have an honest second look at Carlton Pearson's version of the UR message. 

TBN recently did a movie called "One Night With The King" that's the whole book of Esther story.  What about Haman and his ancestors?  Anything interesting in the prophets about their restoration or is that something they're silent on with the exception of the suggestive passages about all peoples remembering and returning to the Lord, and then over in Paul's Gospel where he emphatically uses the word all regarding the Ultimate Resucitation?