Author Topic: Who was reconciled?  (Read 466 times)

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Offline gregoryfl

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Who was reconciled?
« on: Today at 01:32:40 AM »
But all things are of God, who reconciled us to himself through Jesus Christ, and gave to us the ministry of reconciliation;
(2Co 5:18)

This appears to be saying that God reconciled us (past tense) to himself, which would seem to say we are reconciled to God. I think most would say the 'us' are believers, both Paul and the ones he was writing to.

Now...

namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and having committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(2Co 5:19)

Here he says it slightly different, by saying that God was reconciling the world to himself. My question to you is, who is the 'world' here that has been reconciled? Is this everyone, including unbelievers? Or is it just 'us', those who believe, not including those who do not?

I ask this question because I think it will help clear up (hopefully) a common misconception from two things that appear contradictory.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Who was reconciled?
« Reply #1 on: Today at 01:55:16 AM »
ALL to and for me is ALL.
CLV(i) 18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
CLV(i) 19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation."

"Yet ALL is of God..." so for me the entire/whole arrangement world us, them, those, they, whoever the whole kit and kaboodle, in His time and His order. That just how I have been given to believe and stand. :dsunny:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Who was reconciled?
« Reply #2 on: Today at 02:14:45 AM »
I think there is an objective view and a subjective view. Since God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself- we can certainly say all have been reconciled in the  heart of God. However, we can stand alone on one or two verses. The same writer says there are adversaries who are not yet subjected(1 Cor 15), not yet gathered(Eph 1) and as minsters of reconciliation, as we are announcing the reconciliation and ushering/inviting others into it we are reconciling and gathering. Too argue the objective and subjective against one another as if the were opposing views somehow- to me seems an immature understanding of the word of God. I think both are clear, parallel and valid.

Any truth must satisfy all of the scriptures, and all of the perspectives and paradoxes they present.

"Sit thou at my right hand until I make all of your enemies a footstool for your feet." To say an ememy is reconciled, well- maybe we have a misfire of how we understand the language, but at present I believe the reconciliation is purchased, presented and secured for all in God- but not experienced until received. God has chosen the order in which men will receive it.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline jabcat

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Re: Who was reconciled?
« Reply #3 on: Today at 04:18:17 AM »
Amen John.  (I'm positive you meant "CAN'T stand alone on one or two verses).

Ronen, IMO, the "other side" of the scripture you quoted is addressed here (although there are MANY that speak to separation from God, being lost, needing to believe on Him to be saved, etc.)  But specifically, a little further down in the same chapter,

2 Corintians 5:20  Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be you reconciled to God.  Then there is a plethora of scriptures that show how and what this means as listed in the other thread (Ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 10:13, I John 5:13, Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38,39, John 3:5, Romans 10:9,10 "IF confess and believe WILL be saved")

Christ's sacrifice brought down the barrier, made the Way.  Now God is calling, choosing, giving faith to believe on Him/receive Him as Savior as He wills according to His timing and plan.  The ecclesia now, the rest later.  Every knee will bow.
« Last Edit: Today at 04:56:08 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Online joeteekay

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Re: Who was reconciled?
« Reply #4 on: Today at 05:26:36 AM »
Another take on this is :

For reconciliation to take place, one party must be conciliated to a second party and the second party must be conciliated back to the first party. Then, and only then, is there reconciliation. God is now conciliated [Gk: katalla'sso = DOWN-CHANGE] to the world because of His Son's sacrifice, and the world will one day be reconciled [Gk: apokatalla'sso = FROM-DOWN-CHANGE] to God! Conciliation has to do with one side only in an estrangement, whereas reconciliation has to do with both sides of an estrangement. The Authorized Version does not make this vital distinction in the Greek Text!

From an article by L. Ray Smith
Joe from Ottawa

Online Seth

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Re: Who was reconciled?
« Reply #5 on: Today at 05:53:26 AM »
About the word apokatallaso: the part "apo" can also mean "separate" and "kata" can mean down but also AGAINST or OPPOSED. So the term could be (SEPERATENESS-OPPOSED-CHANGED) and katalasso could be (OPPOSED-CHANGED)

Offline Searching_For_The_Truth

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Re: Who was reconciled?
« Reply #6 on: Today at 05:55:49 AM »
Some ET advocates believe that the reconciliation verses mean that Lord Jesus saved all souls from death and from there our free will determines whether we end up in Heaven or Hell for all eternity.

Online Seth

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Re: Who was reconciled?
« Reply #7 on: Today at 06:03:20 AM »
They have ignored Romans 5:10 which says that "if we were reconciled (or conciliated) by his death, how much more so having been reconciled, shall we be saved by his life." Salvation has to do with being saved from the carnal minded darkness inherent within man by the Holy Spirit (his Life) which comes by faith. Nothing to do with hell, which does not exist. Nobody was saved by reconciliation.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Who was reconciled?
« Reply #8 on: Today at 08:52:25 AM »
They also ignore Colossians 1:16-21 and Ephesians 1:9-11 and a half dozen other verses that clearly say that all will be reconciled and gathered into Christ
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline gregoryfl

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Re: Who was reconciled?
« Reply #9 on: Today at 01:16:54 PM »
Amen John.  (I'm positive you meant "CAN'T stand alone on one or two verses).

Ronen, IMO, the "other side" of the scripture you quoted is addressed here (although there are MANY that speak to separation from God, being lost, needing to believe on Him to be saved, etc.)  But specifically, a little further down in the same chapter,

2 Corintians 5:20  Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be you reconciled to God.  Then there is a plethora of scriptures that show how and what this means as listed in the other thread (Ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 10:13, I John 5:13, Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38,39, John 3:5, Romans 10:9,10 "IF confess and believe WILL be saved")

Christ's sacrifice brought down the barrier, made the Way.  Now God is calling, choosing, giving faith to believe on Him/receive Him as Savior as He wills according to His timing and plan.  The ecclesia now, the rest later.  Every knee will bow.
Am I to understand you to be saying that I do not believe that 'other side'? I have read several posts referring to the need to believe on Him to be saved, as one example. Is this being said because it is thought that I ignore that, or do not believe it?

Offline Tony N

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Re: Who was reconciled?
« Reply #10 on: Today at 03:40:05 PM »
But all things are of God, who reconciled us to himself through Jesus Christ, and gave to us the ministry of reconciliation;
(2Co 5:18)

This appears to be saying that God reconciled us (past tense) to himself, which would seem to say we are reconciled to God. I think most would say the 'us' are believers, both Paul and the ones he was writing to.

Now...

namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and having committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(2Co 5:19)

Here he says it slightly different, by saying that God was reconciling the world to himself. My question to you is, who is the 'world' here that has been reconciled? Is this everyone, including unbelievers? Or is it just 'us', those who believe, not including those who do not?

I ask this question because I think it will help clear up (hopefully) a common misconception from two things that appear contradictory.

In the Greek, "reconcile" is apokatallasso. Reconcile is a two-sided peace where two parties come together in peace. In 2 Corinthians 5:19 the Greek word is just "katallasso" and should be "conciliate" which is just one sided where just God is at peace with the world. That is why He uses His ambassadors (that's us believers) to entreat the world to be conciliated (at peace) with God.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.