Author Topic: Clarification  (Read 121 times)

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Offline GerWat

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Clarification
« on: April 18, 2015, 11:07:01 PM »
In the writings on Tentmaker, sometimes it is declared there is no Hell :punish:, other times it's not eternal or it's not what we've been taught.  WTH?

I'm down with UR :thumbsup: and the possibility of Hell as a kind of Purgatory. :sigh:  Even better if Life is Purgatory and Hell is what we make of life on Earth. 

So I guess it comes down, we might get punished after death, for time at least, or not. :dontknow:

Does the Bible give us any definitive answers to clarify?  I suppose there's a "book" by Gary A.  If so point me in the right direction.

Jerry

Offline Seth

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #1 on: Today at 01:10:49 AM »
As far as I know, Gary doesn't believe in hell at all. Can you provide a link?

Offline Tom

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #2 on: Today at 01:30:40 AM »
How can anybody be punished for anything when they're dead? You're either alive or you're dead. Scripture says the dead know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5). I was taught to believe in Purgatory when I was a Catholic kid, but it's a lie that's not in scripture.

What do you think the church was trying to hide when it tortured and killed people just for reading scripture? Scripture was not suppressed by killing people with fire, but forgery was committed in the translation of scripture deceiving people with fear of torture in fire forever. The common misconception of "hell" is a lie. The word "hell" is an Old English word used to translate the Greek "hades," literally "unperceived" or "unseen," referring to the "unseen" state of dead souls. "Gehenna" is confused with "hell" by intentional mistranslation twelve times in the Douay-Rheims Catholic Version and the King James Version in the following verses: Matthew 5:22,29,30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6. "Gehenna," the ravine of Hinnom southwest of Jerusalem, was used by the ancient apostate Jews to sacrifice their children in fire to Moloch, an Ammonite god. "Gehenna" was later used to burn the corpses of criminals condemned to death as it will be in the coming eon. Christ referred to Isaiah's prophecy when he spoke of "Gehenna."

"And it will come to be, as often as the new moon comes in its monthly time, And as often as the sabbath comes in its sabbath cycle, All flesh shall come to worship before Me, says Yahweh. And they will go forth and see the corpses of the mortals who transgressed against Me, For their worm shall not die, And their fire shall not be quenched, And they will become a repulsion to all flesh" (Isaiah 66:23,24).

"The lake of fire" is obviously not "hell" because "hell" will be cast into "the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:14-King James Version).

Even the adulterated versions of scripture say God is the savior of all mankind who will reconcile all through Christ so that God may be all in all.

"We rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers" (1 Timothy 4:10).

"Through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20).

"Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing. For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death. For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all" (1 Corinthians 15:20-28).
« Last Edit: Today at 01:34:52 AM by Tom »

Offline sheila

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #3 on: Today at 01:58:10 AM »
my  :2c:   after we die the judgement.  People think that means if we did good[even through Christ] the judgement will go well......

  rewards..etc.  if we did evil...that we get thrown into the LOF/Punished etc as correction.  But the TOKOGAE =DEATH......

  the Judgement is when God applies His judgement of all have bore the image of the corrupt one...and all shall bear the image

  of the incorrupt one. And the Judgement of God is that He has waived this and chosen MERCY OVER JUDGEMENT in Jesus

Christ...and is freely giving to all men the TOL,whether they were a vessel of/good/evil use...to eat of the TOL which has no death in it.


   Overcoming this [prince of this]world..even satan the accusor..BY THE FREE GRACE HE HAS GIVEN THROUGH HIS SON....

  the churches[saints] were overcome by the dragon..and push burning in fire/torment/Baal doctrines of torture/torment...something

which never come up in our Father's heart.  So,saint and sinner are corrected of their erronous judgements... by HIS JUDGEMENTS...and

 OUR FATHER is not counting sins against us...good/evil judgement is death to all men.[corrupt image is mix of good/evil and is death]

  there is no life in this for any of US  by that tree..but...the TOL has no death dealing record of the offense...it is grace..not being

wise enough to choose the good and reject the evil....self/righteousness is nullified/corrected of the saints..if we have any righteous good

 thing in us/surely it is of Him..Paul said I know no 'good' thing dwells in my flesh...no flesh will boast..not even the saints. Those men

  called of the church 'sinners' will also recieve the free gift of Grace and be granted to eat of the TOL.

   what IS judged..is the 'works' done in the body.....the Prince of this world is judged..that his works are wicked[in the body of

men/Adam]  and the 'good' work of God done through Jesus...is the goodness/good news unto all men...of God....


  mercy triumphs over judgement..have ye not heard? God's goodness unto all men[Christ] shall break up the 'wicked works of the devil"

   wicked works of the devil shall be burned up...death is the sting of sin/wickedness..that is why it is burned up.........

......and He shall gather out of His kingdom all things that cause sin,offense,stumbling...root/fruit of wickedness consumed


    now..the water's are muddied..as it pertains to God's  water's of life by men's seeing through a glass darkly  judgement...

   the free gift of the water of life to ALL..is CHRYST AL[L] CLEAR...and the TOL is on both sides of that river..[grace]bearing

  12 MAN[NER] of FRUIT. EACH MONTH.........unless a kernal of wheat/ Promised seed fall to the earth and die[grace!]

   it remains alone..[not one of them is righteous..not one!]

    but if it fall to the earth and die....it BEARS MUCH FRUIT UNTO HEAVEN.   and if I be lifted up..I shall draw ALL men unto me

   the promised SEED=GRACE  UNTO ALL MEN.....IT DESTROYS THE SERPENTS/SATANS MIND[mankiller/liar from the beginning]
« Last Edit: Today at 02:23:00 AM by sheila »

Offline sheila

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #4 on: Today at 02:17:19 AM »
  Father doesn't always do His 'good/perfect works' to be seen by men. He most usually does them in secret.  He has furnished us open

 displays as a wittness unto  His power to do these things in His son. Jesus said..'I do only what I see the Father doing" and so...

  we can know..that in Heaven...Jesus saw His Father raising the dead..casting out demons..opening blind eyes and opening deaf

  ears...curing of all maladies,sickness...teaching..rebuking the accusor/offspring of viper spirits..planting/watering/growing  His

spirit and image in fallen/overcome men.  Freely forgiving  man..healing and restoring man and giving of the waters of eternal life.


        He made an open display unto the good works of the Father done in Him..here on earth. triumphing over the mind/head of the

   serpent/death/sins sting.but it was all a small token of the  POWER AND THE GLORY AND THE LOVE OF THE FATHER TO US....

    ....and the fullness of it is near at the door!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Tom

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:08:57 AM »
I think those who die as unbelievers will be raised and judged before the great white throne and then cast into the lake of fire which is the second death (Revelation 20:14). That means they'll be dead, not conscious to be punished or tormented, but they'll be immortalized at the consummation of the eons when death is abolished (1 Corinthians 15:26). I know some folks here believe there will be some kind of conscious correction in the lake of fire, but I don't believe that. I think the judgment referred to in Matthew 25:31-46 is of the nations for how they treated the Jews, and it comes a thousand years before the great white throne judgment of individual sinners.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/TheGehennaOfFire.html

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil027.html
« Last Edit: Today at 04:52:23 AM by Tom »

Offline idontknow

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #6 on: Today at 05:21:26 AM »
I think those who die as unbelievers will be raised and judged before the great white throne and then cast into the lake of fire which is the second death (Revelation 20:14). That means they'll be dead, not conscious to be punished or tormented, but they'll be immortalized at the consummation of the eons when death is abolished (1 Corinthians 15:26). I know some folks here believe there will be some kind of conscious correction in the lake of fire, but I don't believe that. I think the judgment referred to in Matthew 25:31-46 is of the nations for how they treated the Jews, and it comes a thousand years before the great white throne judgment of individual sinners.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/TheGehennaOfFire.html

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil027.html

I think this is the first depressing thing i have read here at tentmaker. I guess it's still better than eternal torture but this time last year i was an atheist so this kind of thing dont sit well with me. A book is not enough to get atheists to believe, been there done that. i was never into story books even if the story was real.