Author Topic: Hope  (Read 291 times)

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Offline eaglesway

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Hope
« on: March 17, 2015, 12:17:29 PM »
I have been communicating by e-mail with someone who had no previous exposure to UR. Her response to my e-mails & web-site was interesting......

"And, about the UR summary....I think, instead, I will just write my own defense of it, using scripture I find to defend it, as well as some, at least, of the scripture you have shown me. I think I will learn much more that way. A big undertaking, but it will be interesting and challenging to do, and will make me think and explore more.

One of the quotes I will use is this:

1 Corinthians 13 New International Version (NIV)

13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge,and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhoodbehind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

If love never fails, then how can God ever leave us in hell? Perhaps you are right."


I had never applied 1 Cor 13:8 as a prooftext for UR, but now that I look at it...... I think it is one of the strongest scriptures for the salvation of all.

Love is the greatest argument against both ET and ED theology :o)

The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. www.hellisamyth.com

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Hope
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2015, 06:13:58 PM »
 :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline bushy

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Re: Hope
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2015, 06:28:27 PM »
Yes, Love NEVER EVER fails. God is love so love is God. :banana:

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Hope
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2015, 06:57:52 PM »
UR depends, ultimately, on the Character and Love of God.  :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Hope
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2015, 09:54:50 PM »
If we hope that love wins.
Where are we placing our hope?

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: Hope
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2015, 12:57:04 AM »
If we hope that love wins.
Where are we placing our hope?

We direct our hope toward God, Jesus the Christ, prophecy, the Word, in the world to come.  When these things appear in their fullness, hope will of necessity, pass away.  In much the same way, faith will also no longer be needed when the Object of faith is manifest.  Of the three, only Love will remain forever.  That is why Love is the greatest.
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline Seth

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Re: Hope
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2015, 01:18:00 AM »
Of course some of the pushback I hear revolves around the idea of free will squashing God (ie God doesn't fail, it's man that fails God by not receiving salvation through faith, rejecting the gift). The question then is will God fail to bring repentance to those who rejected?

Offline Seth

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Re: Hope
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2015, 01:19:26 AM »
Calvinists would say he doesn't fail, he just never had the intention of saving everyone in the first place.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Hope
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2015, 01:40:21 AM »
If we hope that love wins.
Where are we placing our hope?

For me it's love...but that is just me :dsunny:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline marie glen

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Re: Hope
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2015, 05:33:06 PM »
Calvinists would say he doesn't fail, he just never had the intention of saving everyone in the first place.


..and brrrr! how cold! So opposite of "God is Love" and "Love never fails"!!


Amen.. "Love is patient, love is kind. ...keeps no record of wrongs... always perseveres."
Oh how we (human race) underestimate the Great and Almighty God, and how we so greatly underestimate His Great Plan of Salvation!!
Atonement = "kaphar ...reconcile (-liation)" / Day of Atonement, Israel's holiest day of the yr known as annual judgment day .."priests served a copy and shadow of things to come"
 ~ And I saw the dead, small & great, stand before God & books were opened... ..The wages of sin is death. ...Only on the tenth of this seventh month is a day of atonements; ye shall afflict your souls, whoever does not afflict/torment their soul shall be cut off.. an atonement for all the people of the assembly.. ..then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound ...on the Day of Atonement ~ doa 4 the doa

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Hope
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 10:13:48 PM »
The hope of the scripture is not the hope of the earth.

"I hope I get this", "I hope somebody does that", "I hope God loves me".

The hope of the scripture "never makes ashamed".

Faith is the substance of this hope. This hope is an image of an unseen thing- but it is an image of a thing that will surely become manifest, because the scriptural hope, is the divine intention of God, taking shape and form like the earth responding to the creative word, moving from chaos to "and God saw that it was good".

In the process, from "formless and void" to "and God saw it was good", hope is the guiding star, we as wise men follow it to a sure destination, the birth of the man-child within us, wrapped in swaddling clothes perhaps, but a manifestation of hope become faith, and faith become the divine nature born within. Hope realized, Joy come morning, Christ in me the Hope of Glory :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. www.hellisamyth.com

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Hope
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 10:18:29 PM »
Calvinists would say he doesn't fail, he just never had the intention of saving everyone in the first place.

OOMG that is so insane. How could any reasonable human being call that love. 

"God loves them, but He predetermined that they would fail, fall, and be tormented forever"

It's enough to make me crazy.  :doh:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. www.hellisamyth.com

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Hope
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2015, 01:06:11 AM »
I know their ideas are just hopeless.

Offline marie glen

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Re: Hope
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2015, 06:01:48 AM »
Calvinists would say he doesn't fail, he just never had the intention of saving everyone in the first place.

OOMG that is so insane. How could any reasonable human being call that love. 

"God loves them, but He predetermined that they would fail, fall, and be tormented forever"

It's enough to make me crazy.  :doh:

    Amen!!
Atonement = "kaphar ...reconcile (-liation)" / Day of Atonement, Israel's holiest day of the yr known as annual judgment day .."priests served a copy and shadow of things to come"
 ~ And I saw the dead, small & great, stand before God & books were opened... ..The wages of sin is death. ...Only on the tenth of this seventh month is a day of atonements; ye shall afflict your souls, whoever does not afflict/torment their soul shall be cut off.. an atonement for all the people of the assembly.. ..then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound ...on the Day of Atonement ~ doa 4 the doa