SNIPPETS FROM THE HARD COPY UR LIBRARY OF RODGER TUTT

[rodgertutt]

A SNIPPET FROM THE GREEK WORD AION – AIONIOS TRANSLATED EVERLASTING – ETERNAL IN THE HOLY BIBLE SHOWN TO DENOTE LIMITED DURATION – JOHN WESLEY HANSON

"The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the non-Christian Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment.

Jesus never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of His disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which His contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? Jesus never adopted the language of His day on this subject. Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation." 17
See this link.
http://hellbusters.8m.com/upd3.html

[eaglesway]

actually aidos is used in Jude and it is not expressing eternal or everlasting. It is expressing  limited duration otherwordly(supernatural chains that hold the angels that left their proper abode(exceeded their authority, perverted their giftings, etc or whatever)in nature, like 'olam'

And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal(aidos) bonds under darkness for(until) the judgment of the great day,
(Jud 1:6)

This is one of the weaknesses of UR theology, there is a tendency to repeat by rote things we hear rather than checking things out.

Even tho Hanson's point is correct about Jesus's phraseolgy, setting up "aidos" as a strawman is unconvincing to any real Greek scholar form the opposing camp, and plays into the idea that we universalists just play it the way we want it to be.

Aidos was clearly not "universally" used for evrlasting or eternal if one of the only two times it appears in the New Testament was for "from the time of inception until the day of judgment".

 

[rodgertutt]

actually aidos is used in Jude and it is not expressing eternal or everlasting. It is expressing  limited duration otherwordly(supernatural chains that hold the angels that left their proper abode(exceeded their authority, perverted their giftings, etc or whatever)in nature, like 'olam'

And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal(aidos) bonds under darkness for(until) the judgment of the great day,
(Jud 1:6)

This is one of the weaknesses of UR theology, there is a tendency to repeat by rote things we hear rather than checking things out.

Even tho Hanson's point is correct about Jesus's phraseolgy, setting up "aidos" as a strawman is unconvincing to any real Greek scholar form the opposing camp, and plays into the idea that we universalists just play it the way we want it to be.

Aidos was clearly not "universally" used for evrlasting or eternal if one of the only two times it appears in the New Testament was for "from the time of inception until the day of judgment".

 

Hi eaglesway. I think that interested folk will examine the contents of the link and decide for themselves as to whether or not your conclusions are right.
http://hellbusters.8m.com/upd3.html

[rodgertutt]

A LETTER OF THE CELEBRATED JOHN FOSTER TO A YOUNG MINISTER ON THE DURATION OF FUTURE PUNISHMENT AND AN EARNEST APPEAL TO THE AMERICAN TRACT SOCIETY IN REGARDS TO THE CHARACTER OF ITS PUBLICATIONS – JOHN FOSTER

"The original terms translated everlasting, eternal, forever, are often employed in the Bible, as well as other writings under various limitations of import and are thus withdrawn from the predicament of meaning endless duration.

Since the terms do not necessarily signify an interminable duration, and since there is in the present instance to be pleaded for admitting a limited interpretation, a reason in the moral estimate of things of stupendous infinite urgency involving our perceptions of the divine goodness, and leaving those conceptions overwhelmed in darkness and horror if it be rejected, I therefore conclude that a limited interpretation is authorized." 18

[reFORMer]

It's rather horrible, to look into the darkness and death in religious people's eyes when you've been sharing truths from the Word concerning the true nature of God that contradicts ceaseless torture for ever.  They seem to be kept unhearing by a power of darkness.  Sometimes they get agitated, jumping quickly from concept to concept without the decency to allow a conversation.  This is at least a borderline demonic quickening they sometimes think is "The" anointing.

I wonder if we should continue making the effort to speak on topic in such situations, perhaps changing instead to point out to them what they're doing.  The response to this in turn has been their worsening in vehemnant antagonism.  Since I mostly do "street witnessing" I tend not to see these people again which is an influence to make an all out effort on the spot and not postpone it.  A great improvement is possible if people could just see themselves.

How about their never calling or stopping by, though I've left information for that with them?  We're supposed to seek to free those who have been taken captive by the devil at his own will.  When I've gone to deliver someone, offering them words of wisdom and knowldge from the Word, I've sometimes found I was the one who was wrong.  I actually helped myself to move on by seeking to patiently help someone else; well, I think it's more accurate to say it was the Holy Spirit's doing who revealed to me their understanding was more in line with what is Written.  Sometimes I've made a new friend that way.

[rodgertutt]

Thanks for sharing that reFORMer.

IS HELL ETERNAL OR WILL GOD'S PLAN FAIL - CHARLES H. PRIDGEON

"The plan of God, or as it literally reads 'according to the plan of the ages' (Eph.3:11) will work out as God purposed; It will not fail. God shall be All in all (1Cor.15:28). The saving work of Christ will continue throughout the ages, for Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and for the ages (Heb.13:8). God's purpose and plan in creation, redemption, and new creation will then be clearly apprehended by all, and His character will be unveiled and vindicated." 19

[Paul L]

I wonder if we should continue making the effort to speak on topic in such situations, perhaps changing instead to point out to them what they're doing.  The response to this in turn has been their worsening in vehemnant antagonism.

Do what I do, don't bother trying to convince anyone of "the point". I simply tell people there is a plan of UR & leave it at that. If their minds are not already made up on that issue, then they will stop & ask you to explain, if they don't then it only means they don't care.

[rodgertutt]

Good point Paul.

THE GOSPEL FROM OUTER SPACE – ROBERT SHORT

"The gospel of love heard from the churches is at bottom a gospel at gunpoint. This gospel claims to speak of a great love, but only one step behind this "love" is an unspoken, or often very vocal great threat – the threat of eternity in "hell" if we refuse this love. What a travesty of love, even human love, not to mention God's! For one would think that God's love ought to be at least as great as what human beings are capable of. It is precisely the implied or expressed threat of eternal perdition that compromises the churches' 'gospel of love,' and gives this 'gospel' the lie to ordinary people, and is in fact behind by far, most of atheism.

On the other hand, this is not the quality of mercy I see in God. I get the strong feeling of an infinite, unconditional, no-strings-attached love for all people. At the same time this love is all-powerful and sovereign. It is not so flimsy and pitifully weak that it can be finally frustrated or defeated by mere human whim or by meagre man's arrogant illusion called 'free will.' " 20

[eaglesway]

It is also so dynamic and overwhelmingly beautiful, that if man's will were free (and I believe, in a measure, it is), it would be inexoriably and universally won over to love, through the "lifting up" of Christ on the cross.

For this reason I am determined to know nothing among you but Christ and Him crucified.

[rodgertutt]

THE GREAT REVELATION OR GOD'S LOVE, PURPOSE AND PLAN – JOHN H. PATON

"Some say that if it can be proved that the punishment of the wicked will have an end, the same argument will prove that the life of the righteous will also end. But this is too much to take for granted on such a premise. Aionios does not of itself indicate either the limited or unlimited duration of anything, but its duration in each case depends on the nature of that to which it is applied.

Colored glasses give color to whatever men look at, and it is difficult for many to divest themselves of the influence of former teaching so far as to be willing to look at a thing from the standpoint of another.

Some of us have done this however. Though trained in the old school of thought, we have been enabled, by a careful examination of the Scriptures, to throw off the old idea and to accept the larger and better hope. And we are assured that the plan of the ages with its progressive revelation, and the general scope and spirit of the gospel as a revelation of the infinite love and wisdom of God, are far stronger evidence of the final victory of Christ in saving all men, than the mere definition of any word could be." 21

[rodgertutt]

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – LOUIS ABBOTT

In the forward to his book AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS, Louis Abbott wrote, "One key area various denominations are divided over is the final destiny of the ungodly, the wicked, the unsaved, the unregenerate, or however one wishes to phrase it.
There are three views on this subject. Each position claims Scriptural support: (1) eternal torment; (2) eternal destruction; and (3) the ultimate salvation of all. It is obvious that all cannot be correct.
I pray this book will be a blessing to all who are struggling with this subject." (unquote)

This book can be read online at this link
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

ENJOY!
22

[WhiteWings]

A must read.

[rodgertutt]

#23 - DARE WE HOPE THAT ALL MEN BE SAVED – HANS URS VON BALTHASAR
(These 254 pages are essentially an explanation of why he makes the following statement)

"The whole of scripture is full of the proclamation of a salvation that binds all men by a Redeemer Who gathers together and reconciles the whole universe. That is quite sufficient to enable us to hope for the salvation of all men without thereby coming into contradiction with the Word of God." 23

[rodgertutt]

GOD'S ULTIMATE – A.E. SAXBY

"We do not wish to belittle the awful judgments of God. They will be terrible enough. But we desire to get all the perspective of Scripture and look to the end God has in view.

We do not believe that orthodox theology has done this. It has stopped short in the ages themselves and has misnamed them eternity, and has therefore presented the vision of a heaven full of saints and a hell full of tortured sinners in endless existence. In such a survey of the ultimate there is no place for the vision that Paul gives when God shall be All in all (1Cor. 15:28).

We contend that nothing less than the reconciliation of all would satisfy the heart of God and be a fitting consummation to the shedding of the blood of His Son." 24

[rodgertutt]

#20 – Dr. E.W. Bullinger, THE COMPANION BIBLE

"We have not an impotent Father, or a disappointed Christ, or a defeated Holy Ghost, as is so commonly preached; but an omnipotent Father, an all-victorious Christ, and an almighty Holy Spirit, able to break the hardest heart and subdue the stoutest will."

[rodgertutt]

A snippet from THESIS ON THE EONS – Travis Ogletree

Travis wrote, "Many find it difficult to see that the God Who is willing that none should perish has made atonement, not just for the sins of the elect, but for the sins of the whole world, will succeed (2 Peter 3:9 & John 1:2)."

Anyone who reads this thesis will probably find it less difficult and will have a much better understanding of why some of us believe that the Bible, literally (not interpretively) translated, teaches the eventual salvation of everyone because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection.

Good job Travis! I'm sure it will be a blessing to everyone who reads it, even if it only causes them to begin to rejoice in the hope that the point of view your thesis presents is true.

[rodgertutt]

A SPIRITUAL AUTOBIOGRAPHY – WILLIAM BARCLAY

"I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God.

The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure." (unquote) 
This is his comment regarding Matthew 25:46.
25

[rodgertutt]

THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION – ADLAI LOUDY

"The crowning glory of the 'good news' or evangel of the untraceable riches of Christ which Paul was granted the grace to bring to the 'gentiles' or nations, is the revelation that He will reconcile all to God.

What a marvellous outcome of God's purpose! What a wonderful Christ Who can accomplish such a complete and glorious reconciliation! All creatures, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens, reconciled in perfect peace to the great love of God through the Son of His love.

More of these untraceable honours and glories of Christ which Paul was granted the grace to reveal, could be pointed out with delight, but these will suffice to increase our faith, enrich our joy and brighten our expectation 'in Him in Whom our lot was cast also,' Christ Jesus our Lord, Life, and Head!" 26

[WhiteWings]

Welcome back from your short holiday Rodger!

[rodgertutt]

Thanks WhiteWings.

CHRIST TRIUMPHANT – THOMAS ALLIN

It is true that aionios may be applied as an epithet to things that are endless, but the idea of endlessness in all such cases comes not from the epithet, but only because it is inherent in the object to which the epithet is applied, as in the case of God.

'This is life eternal' should be 'the life of the ages,' i.e. peculiar to those ages in which the scheme of salvation is being worked out. The 'eternal covenant' is the 'covenant of the ages,' the covenant peculiar to the ages of redemption. The 'eternal purpose' is really the purpose of 'the ages,' i.e. developed and worked out in 'the ages.'

We who teach the larger hope believe that not in this brief life only, but through future ages, Christ's work shall go on till the last straying sheep shall have been found by the Good Shepherd. Then, at the expiry of these ages 'cometh the end' when Christ shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, and God shall be All in all (1Cor. 15:28).
27

[reFORMer]

WILLIAM BARCLAY

"I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God.

He not only wrote The Daily Bible Study commentaries on the N.T., very good and with a historical perspective, his translation of the New Testament was separately published.  Recently I saw a copy in a used book store in Augusta (Georgia) for $40 that was sold before I could get back to grab it.  Does anyone know if it's an ebook or available on the internet?

[WhiteWings]

I found better prices: http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qwork=4660978

Commentaries: http://e-sword-users.org/users/node/95
http://www.tentmaker.org/e-sword_modules/esword_CD.html

There is/was a esword module of his Study Bible. I'll try to locate it.

[rodgertutt]

A snippet from THE PRESENCE – Walter Lanyon

Do you feel the' Presence and understand what it is to recognize for a moment
that nothing----no, not anything -----is to be destroyed, but everything is to be fulfilled with the Love of God which only has to be recognized to change the imagination and shatter the belief that held it into its outline of ugliness?

Formerly we went out to battle with the thing called evil ----now we have reduced it to the vacuum of belief in the absence of God. No matter how rampant it may be, and how destructive in its manifestation, or how terrible in its dimensions----it is in the final analysis the absence of God, and this absence of God can only exist in the imagination, for God is omnipresent.

"I come not to destroy but to fulfill" will thrill you and relieve you of all the hateful warfare with evil that has been going on------it will bring you to a true understanding of the non-resistance of the Christ Mind within you and make you understand the height and depth and majesty of this Presence.

It is wonderful-----it is glorious------it causes the Hosannas to rise from the very centre of your being and magnify the Lord of Lords and Host of Hosts.

[rodgertutt]

THE ANCIENT HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – HOSEA BALLOU
From the time of the apostles to the era of the reformation 1498.

"I have been careful to state, in his own words, the opinion of every Christian author extant concerning future punishment and the eventual salvation of the world. This history contains an account of every individual of note whom we have now the means of knowing to have been a universalist."

THE MODERN HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – THOMAS WHITTEMORE
Contains the writings of several hundreds of Christian Universalists from 1498 to 1830.

A snippet from Thomas Whittemore reads, "I cannot permit this opportunity to pass without expressing my heart felt acknowledgements to that Being Who has preserved my health and enabled me to finish this work in the midst of other pressing and incessant duties. May my confidence in Him never be diminished."
28,29

[rodgertutt]

#30 - RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – ANDREW JUKES

"It is argued that whatever be the meaning of the word aionios in the case of the lost, the same must be its meaning in the case of the saved; and our certainty of never-ending bliss for penitent believers is gone if the word bears not the same signification in the case of the impenitent and unbelieving. But the truth is that this word describes not the quantity or duration, but the quality of that which it is predicated.

The word which in Matt. 25:46 we translate punishment, in its primary sense means 'pruning' and is always used for corrective discipline which is for the improvement of him who suffers it. Even those who hold the common view of the endlessness of punishment are obliged to confess this; and this of itself proves that their doctrine is untenable; for any punishment, be it for a longer or shorter time would not be corrective discipline, but quite another thing if it left those who were so corrected unimproved and lost forever. But from the fall till now the changeless way of the Lord is to make even the curse a blessing." 30