Author Topic: Scripture references relating to God directly intervening in mans will?  (Read 3794 times)

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bhark54

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Has anyone compiled a list of scriptures where God has directly intervened in mans will?

Such as:

John 12:40  refering to Isa 6:10

Quote
40"He has blinded their eyes
      and deadened their hearts,
   so they can neither see with their eyes,
      nor understand with their hearts,
      nor turn—and I would heal them."
Please add some more references

Bob H

giftsimple

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Re: Scripture references relating to God directly intervening in mans will?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2007, 05:54:11 PM »
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Has anyone compiled a list of scriptures where God has directly intervened in mans will?

The whole message of Jesus is God intervening in mans will with his.


2Cr 3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Judgment belongs to Jesus!

Recognize his "waiving" authority.

This enables him to "save all men" as he was born to do and to remit all men's sins as he died to do!

2Cr 3:8  How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Some of your judgment doctrines make him look like a failure.

Jesus is not pleased with your errors nor flattered by them.

2Cr 3:9  For if the ministration of condemnation [be] glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

In fact you dishonor his glory by preaching such trash and making devils seem successful against both Jesus and the Father's will!

Honor Jesus NOW!

2Cr 3:10  For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Cr 3:11  For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.

bhark54

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Re: Scripture references relating to God directly intervening in mans will?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2007, 06:09:12 PM »
What did I say?

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Some of your judgment doctrines make him look like a failure.

Jesus is not pleased with your errors nor flattered by them.


I was merely looking for references involving direct personal intervention as in my example.

giftsimple

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Re: Scripture references relating to God directly intervening in mans will?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2007, 06:24:41 PM »
Sorry

May not be yours

But the church in general

Luke 9:51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, 52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. 53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. 54 And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. 56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save [them]. And they went to another village.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


Offline studier

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Re: Scripture references relating to God directly intervening in mans will?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 10:43:15 PM »
There is many places in Scripture where God limits and intervenes negatively against man's will. There also places in Scripture where God is limits and intervenes positively in conjunction with man's will.

I will make a list for you of intervening against for you, but also intervening in conjunction.

bhark54

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Re: Scripture references relating to God directly intervening in mans will?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2007, 02:10:59 AM »
Romans 9:18
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden

gatheredfragments

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Re: Scripture references relating to God directly intervening in mans will?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2007, 08:29:28 AM »
I don't see how God isn't directly intervening in man's will.  He is sovereign. 

From the fall forward ..His creation is by His design. 

I suppose a good example might be:

Gen 17:15  And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
Gen 17:16  And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
Gen 17:17  Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?


thats some serious intervening in man's will...from my perspective.   :dunno2:

Offline CHB

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Re: Scripture references relating to God directly intervening in mans will?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2007, 04:42:55 PM »
Quote from: gatherfragments
thats some serious intervening in man's will...from my perspective.


It really wasn't intervening, it was all planned before the world begin.

CHB

Offline chuckt

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Re: Scripture references relating to God directly intervening in mans will?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2007, 05:06:09 PM »
Quote
author=bhark54 link=topic=1061.msg8556#msg8556 date=1192507459]
Has anyone compiled a list of scriptures where God has directly intervened in mans will?

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

Hbr 2:10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Phl 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

acts28 for in Him we are living and moving and are,

Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].



something to think about.................

inlove
chuckt

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SLN

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Re: Scripture references relating to God directly intervening in mans will?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2007, 07:55:49 PM »
From the top of my head, I can only come up with two events... firstly when God makes the pharaoh reject Moses' pleas to let the people of Israel go, so he can then has a reason Moses perform his miracles (and thereby proving his might to Israel and the people of Egypt).

Exodus 10:1: And Jehovah saith unto Moses, `Go in unto Pharaoh, for I have declared hard his heart, and the heart of his servants, so that I set these My signs in their midst


Then there's Paul. I don't know if you could really call it intervening in his will, though. Of course he did intervene, but it could very well be Paul's own will to convert after seeing the Lord, naturally though, it probably wouldn't have happened otherwise. Whether he intervened in his will directly though, seems questionable to me.... Here's what the bible says:

Acts 9:3: And in the going, he came nigh to Damascus, and suddenly there shone round about him a light from the heaven,
Acts 9:4: and having fallen upon the earth, he heard a voice saying to him, `Saul, Saul, why me dost thou persecute?'
Acts 9:5: And he said, `Who art thou, Lord?' and the Lord said, `I am Jesus whom thou dost persecute; hard for thee at the pricks to kick;'
9:6: trembling also, and astonished, he said, `Lord, what dost thou wish me to do?' and the Lord [said] unto him, `Arise, and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what it behoveth thee to do.'


I hope it's of any help to you.  :cloud9:
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 07:58:19 PM by SLN »

martincisneros

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But haven't you known?  Haven't you heard??  God's never ever ever ever violated a single person's free will from the beginning of time!!!!!!!!!

Free will of man is almighty.  Free will of man is god.  Hear man roar!!!

 :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor:

Offline studier

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But haven't you known?  Haven't you heard??  God's never ever ever ever violated a single person's free will from the beginning of time!!!!!!!!!

Free will of man is almighty.  Free will of man is god.  Hear man roar!!!

 :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor:

Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Everyone has free-will, there are just more powerful free-will's out there. :)

Even among men.

Matthew 12:29
How can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.




Offline Pierac

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Pro 16:9  A person32 plans his course,33 but the LORD directs34 his steps.35

Net Bible commentary:

 32 tn Heb  "the heart of a man." This stresses that it is within the heart that plans are made.  Only those plans that are approved by God will succeed.

 33 tn Heb  "his way" (so KJV, NASB).

 34 tn The verb כּוּן (kun, "to establish; to confirm") with צַעַד (tsa'ad, "step") means "to direct" (e.g., Psa_119:133; Jer_10:23). This contrasts what people plan and what actually happens — God determines the latter.

 35 sn "Steps" is an implied comparison, along with "way," to indicate the events of the plan as they work out.


Many may think they have free will but circumstances and events determine our action.  You may go the ice cream store to enjoy some chocolate ice cream. Your  'will'  is to eat chocolate ice cream.  However, upon arriving you find out the store is out of chocolate flavor! Your 'free will'  would have been thwarted at that moment in time!


Pro 20:24  The steps of a person73 are ordained by74 the LORD —so how can anyone75 understand his own76 way?

Net Commentary:
73 tn Heb  "the steps of a man"; but "man" is the noun גֶּבֶר (gever, in pause), indicating an important, powerful person. BDB 149-50 s.v. suggests it is used of men in their role of defending women and children; if that can be validated, then a translation of "man" would be appropriate here. But the line seems to have a wider, more general application. The "steps" represent (by implied comparison) the course of life (cf. NLT "the road we travel").

 74 tn Heb  "from the LORD"; NRSV "ordered by the Lord"; NIV "directed by the Lord."

 sn To say that one's steps are ordained by the LORD means that one's course of actions, one's whole life, is divinely prepared and sovereignly superintended (e.g., Gen_50:26; Pro_3:6).  Ironically, man is not actually in control of his own steps.

 75 tn The verse uses an independent nominative absolute to point up the contrast between the mortal and the immortal: "and man, how can he understand his way?" The verb in the sentence would then be classified as a potential imperfect; and the whole question rhetorical. It is affirming that humans cannot understand very much at all about their lives.

 76 tn Heb  "his way." The referent of the third masculine singular pronoun is unclear, so the word "own" was supplied in the translation to clarify that the referent is the human individual, not the Lord.

CEV Rom 9:19  Someone may ask, "How can God blame us, if he makes us behave in the way he wants us to?"


Free indeed!

Paul



Offline studier

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Freedom of will, and freedom are two different things. One is an adjective which creates a noun phrase, the other is a noun. They are not related in definition. Freedom of will is the cognitive ability to think and choose when things are presented, not the power to invent or create out of nothing the things that are presented.

Offline Pierac

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Quote from: Craig
Freedom of will, and freedom are two different things. One is an adjective which creates a noun phrase, the other is a noun. They are not related in definition. Freedom of will is the cognitive ability to think and choose when things are presented, not the power to invent or create out of nothing the things that are presented.

The point I'm making is our choices are always affected by circumstances and events out side our control. Therefore, our will is subject to a higher power and we are not free to choose what we want, but what we think we want.

Like I tell my own children some times... You get what you get and you don't throw a fit! I never force my kids to eat but they are only free to eat what I put on their plate. They chose with in those boundaries and are not free to eat as they pleased even though they would tell you differently. They just never knew any difference as this is the way things have always been! 

Offline studier

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Thanks for your clarification.

The continual reduction of "freedom" and "freedom of will" (aka "free-will") as being synonymous in definition continues to be the underlying confusion which permeates much "free-will" discussions. As much as the phrase "Freedom of choices" and "Freedom of choice" are also completely different noun phrases which though are similar, contain specifically different definitions not synonymous to each other.

We have no freedom to expand beyond the boundaries we have been set within, but we are we have freedom within the boundaries we have been set within. This always gets a response by one person says "That is not freedom", because they see freedom as without limits. Even Scripture says that freedom is only found within restraint, for example, Paul says we are free in Christ, but do not use your freedom to sin, because he who sins becomes a slave to sin and your freedom is lost.

I agree with your point, our choices are always affected by circumstances and events outside our control and at the same time, as you said, when we are subject to a more powerful will we can lose our freedom, but still have the freedom of will to think about it.