Author Topic: Romans 11  (Read 1253 times)

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Offline shawn

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Romans 11
« on: November 14, 2010, 07:11:43 PM »
Reading this passage was a wow moment for me.  I don't fully grasp it.  But, God's grace can just drop my jaw.  This was one of those times.

1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"[a]? 4 And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

   "God gave them a spirit of stupor,
   eyes that could not see
   and ears that could not hear,
to this very day."[c]

 9 And David says:

   "May their table become a snare and a trap,
   a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
   and their backs be bent forever."[d]

Ingrafted Branches
 11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

 :cloud9:

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Romans 11
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2010, 07:37:34 PM »
The Lord God and his Grace and Love are truly Wonderfull! :HeartThrob:
Thanks for that Word my friend.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline shawn

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Re: Romans 11
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2010, 07:44:38 PM »
The Lord God and his Grace and Love are truly Wonderfull! :HeartThrob:
Thanks for that Word my friend.

Indeed they are brother.  I woke up this morning just needing word of encouragement from God.  He honored my prayer request with that passage.  Our God is truly wonderful.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Romans 11
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2010, 07:50:00 PM »
Yes, those are awesome scrips and insight into God's working, His Plan of the Ages.

Relatedly, I read this morning in Acts 10 about Peter's vision about not calling anything common or unclean.  For perhaps the first time, a clearer understanding came to me of the "God is no respector of person's" issue.  Some use that to mean that God will not deal any differently with one man over the other, i.e., that there will not be both vessels of honor/dishonor, that some will be chosen now, while others not until later, etc.  But I realized this AM that the scripture is about Gentiles being included in God's grace and plan.

He saw the vision, got the word "call nothing unclean", and went to Cornelius' house;  34  Now Peter opened his mouth and said, 'It is true, I am grasping that God is showing no favoritism;  35  rather, in every nation, whoever is continually having deep respect for Him and continually doing works that are right [and just], is acceptable to Him.  36  He has dispatched the Word to the son of Israel, spreading the Good Message about Peace through Yesu,....Now they also did away with Him by hanging Him on a stake...granted that He should become disclosed, 41  not to all the people, but to us, the witnesses who had been selected beforehand by God......43  it is to this One that all the prophets are testifying, that whoever is continually believing in Him, is to obtain forgiveness of wrongs through His name [Yesu].

Amen.
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline jabcat

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Re: Romans 11
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2010, 08:10:36 PM »
...and this;  44  While Peter was still speaking these declarations, the Pure Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the Word.  45  Now the Believers who had come together with Peter, came from circumcision [Judaisim]} and were amazed that the freely given gift of the Pure Spirit had been poured out upon the pagans too.
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Romans 11
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2010, 08:11:43 PM »
Glory Hallelujah! :HeartThrob:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Romans 11
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2010, 08:24:58 PM »
 :cloud9: :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

PaoloNuevo

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Re: Romans 11
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2010, 12:52:00 AM »
WOW! Amazing insights!!

Quote
34  Now Peter opened his mouth and said, 'It is true, I am grasping that God is showing no favoritism;  35  rather, in every nation, whoever is continually having deep respect for Him and continually doing works that are right [and just], is acceptable to Him.

I haven't read this before! ... But so much for the fundamentalist notion that only "christians" are gonna be saved and these people's works will count for nothing if they break even one of God's commandments.  As James says, see how one is justified by works and not by faith alone.

What an awesome God we have, once we truly know Him without prejudices or biases of human traditions!

Offline jabcat

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Re: Romans 11
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2010, 01:31:12 AM »
Bless you, but I'm afraid I can't take any credit for those particular insights, because I think there's a much bigger context.   :HeartThrob:   Hopefully your thread isn't being hijacked Shawn.  If you intended it to go in a different specific direction, just mention it and we can split this off. 


We've had discussions on this before, and I guess people have argued about it for hundreds of years.  Since I posted the scriptures, I feel some responsibility to at least present my understanding, although I know I also have much to learn.

IMO, what mainstream misses is that ALL will be saved, each in their own order.  They don't have the view of God's plan for the ages. 

The scripture I posted is translated a little differently than most;  most read similar to to this - "but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to him."    As I understand, we cannot work righteousness unless we are led by the Spirit, and we ("generally") aren't led by the Spirit unless we're reborn, filled with ,and walking in the Spirit.  Even as a believer, I believe I can do works of my flesh (trying to be good, righteous, earning things through my own effort) that aren't "acceptable to God" - I must be led by the Spirit, having the Spirit do works through me.


I believe, in attempting to take into the "whole" of scripture - including taking things in context - that we are in fact only saved by grace, through faith, and that not of ourselves lest any should boast;  Eph 2:8

that there is only one way to the Father, and that's through His Son, Jesus the Christ Jn 14:6 - and that we can only come when He draws us;

that works cannot save us (the Law never could) - Paul said when we start depending on works, then we've "fallen from grace";  Gal. 5:4

however, that when one does come to know Jesus, we then become "a new creature, old things are passing away, and behold all things are becoming new"; 

so, there are good works that occur as a result of the new spiritual birth, and those will be evident as a believer develops and matures;  because we "are predestined from the foundation of the world to good works - Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.";

however, there does appear to some to be a judgment of works, even among (maybe especially among) believers;  that it's not a "salvation"-type judgment, but more so consequences/works not of God burned/rewards, etc.
 
------------------------------------------------------------
[As a point of perhaps further understanding/explanation, (and is probably s/w controversial to some) part of the discussion in the past has centered on Peter and James being circumcised Jewish believers, who still had vestiges of the Law in their thinking and teaching, while Paul was the dispatched envoy to the Gentiles;  and as such, brought to them (us) the evangel of "total" grace.  And that though all are saved by grace, including those early Jewish believers, they still had some customs and beliefs that were associated with the Law, temple worship, etc., that Paul's "progressive revelation" and teachings clarified as time went on.]


*Even if one rejects the bracketed paragraph above about Peter, Paul, and James' focus, I don't believe all the understanding hinges on that anyway;  as I think it's extremely important to look at the overall view of the scriptures, reconciling verses with one another, and not just pulling out a particular piece and building a doctrine on it.  So IMO, in attempting to do so, we're saved by grace through the cross and saving blood of Yesu, and works will be a result (often evident), as the Spirit moves in and through us.   :2c: 

Some of my thoughts anyway, James.   :bigGrin:
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 02:08:33 AM by jabcat »
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline marie glen

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Re: Romans 11
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2010, 02:54:33 AM »
Jabcat, that was perfect!
- Is it written? no repentance after death? if resurrected still in ones sins (2nd Resurrection) will be weeping and wailing? Holy Days - Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles prophecy the three peaks of His long 2nd advent? Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process? by the end of judgement age, veRy few to cleansing in LOF?
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- "...aLL things new" Rev21:5 "A new heavens and a new earth" Rev 21:1 - Is 11:7 Micah 4:4 Is 30:25
http://www.bubblews.com/news/9080033 -revelation told in rhyme - 45 days

Offline jabcat

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Re: Romans 11
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2010, 02:58:29 AM »
 :HeartThrob:
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2