Author Topic: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.  (Read 4573 times)

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Offline claypot

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Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2009, 07:44:14 PM »
I checked out the radio show. Good stuff Brother.

For my part I still need to see these words of Jesus as explaining my very essence otherwise it is just a good story teaching some moral principal. I need to know these words are scalpels in the hands of a perfect surgeon. I need to believe the words of Scripture are alive and able to create me as I read them.

In my opinion, none of it is about you. It's all about Him. You are nothing. God is everything. You become something by becoming what God wants you to be. Loving God beyond all things, especially yourself is what gives you essence and purpose.

A tall order, that last part Brother, but one I hope to do someday.

I agree it is all of God. That's why I said I think we are thoughts of God. This is all His show, all His creation, all His 'brain' work. For Him to think us up is a grand thing that is beyond my ability to fathom but it makes a kind of sense to me.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2009, 07:51:42 PM »

I like interpreting scripture in a way that would this stand up in a court of law, so to speak.


So do I Brother. It's just our 'courts of law' are in different realms. I like believing my interpretaions will stand up in mans court of law and Gods.

To see the Word from only one vantage point is way too limiting for me and goes against the whole of Scriptural interpretation IMO. I try to see and interpret Scripture from many angles and levels and this works for me.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2009, 08:28:52 PM »

I personally have a lot going for me in this physical realm. I often ignore or belittle the spiritual essence within my being. I will reap what I sow.

Tony, you do believe a person reaps what he sows don't you?

cp

Does a farmer reap if he does not go out into the fields when the harvest is ready? What if the famer faints and does not reap what he has sown?

Gal 6:9 Now we may not be despondent in ideal doing, for in due season we shall be reaping, if we do not faint."
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2009, 08:31:01 PM »

I'm not sure I'm following you, although Tony spelled it out some. I don't do very well with conjecture and esoteric implications. I'm too pragmatic for that. I like interpreting scripture in a way that would this stand up in a court of law, so to speak. Fact: Both stories in Luke 16 start out with "There was a certain rich man". Fact: Lazarus = Eliezer. Fact: A gentile named Eliezer was Abram's (Abraham's) legal inheritor before the Abrahamic covenant. Fact: The coming of the Messiah reverted the Abrahamic covenant from Isaac, Jacob/Israel back to the gentiles i.e. Eliezer as foretold in Old Testament prophecy. Now there's a considerable length to which this can be taken, fact by fact, but just by what's been established so far gives ample evidence to establish this as a parable about the Jews forfeiting their Abrahamic inheritance and it going back to the original inheritors, the gentiles. Just the same as many other parables. What's ironic to me, is this seems to be, when going fact by scriptural fact, to be one of if not the least esoteric of all parables.

Very well thought out response, Brain. This has added a whole new dimmension to my understanding of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

TT
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2009, 09:02:29 PM »

I personally have a lot going for me in this physical realm. I often ignore or belittle the spiritual essence within my being. I will reap what I sow.

Tony, you do believe a person reaps what he sows don't you?

cp

Does a farmer reap if he does not go out into the fields when the harvest is ready? What if the famer faints and does not reap what he has sown?

Gal 6:9 Now we may not be despondent in ideal doing, for in due season we shall be reaping, if we do not faint."

If he faints the farmer may reap a good nap at least!

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2009, 10:19:34 PM »

I personally have a lot going for me in this physical realm. I often ignore or belittle the spiritual essence within my being. I will reap what I sow.

Tony, you do believe a person reaps what he sows don't you?

cp

Does a farmer reap if he does not go out into the fields when the harvest is ready? What if the famer faints and does not reap what he has sown?

Gal 6:9 Now we may not be despondent in ideal doing, for in due season we shall be reaping, if we do not faint."

If he faints the farmer may reap a good nap at least!

cp

One does not always necessarily reap what he sows if he does not actually get out there and to the process of reaping. Get it? A farmer plants his seeds and plants come up. He can either reap the plants or let them rot in the field. Reaping does not always automatically mean you get what you've sown.
If he faints he may go bankrupt. Just a thought.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2009, 10:23:18 PM »

One does not always necessarily reap what he sows if he does not actually get out there and to the process of reaping. Get it? A farmer plants his seeds and plants come up. He can either reap the plants or let them rot in the field. Reaping does not always automatically mean you get what you've sown.
If he faints he may go bankrupt. Just a thought.

I see your point, I think. Are you saying I can sow, say evil of some sort, and never reap its consequences?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2009, 11:29:37 PM »
Paul is a classic example for us. He, as Saul, sowed murder against the believers and got grace instead of death from the Lord.

Almost always it seems to me "what one sows is what one reaps" is taken out of context. Here is the context of that saying:

 Gal 6:6-10  Now let him who is being instructed in the word be contributing to him who is instructing, in all good things."  (7)  Be not decived, God is not to be sneered at, for whatsoever a man may be sowing, this shall he be reaping also,  (8)  for he who is sowing for his own flesh, from the flesh shall be reaping corruption, yet he who is sowing for the spirit, from the spirit shall be reaping life eonian."  (9)  Now we may not be despondent in ideal doing, for in due season we shall be reaping, if we do not faint."  (10)  Consequently, then, as we have occasion, we are working for the good of all, yet specially for the family of faith."
    Good sowing and reaping:
    • Sowing = contributing to the one instructing you = sowing for the spirit.
    • Reaping = from the spirit reaping life eonian. This is the enjoying of the realization of the life pertaining to the future eons NOW.
    Doing good now will allow us to reap in the future if we do not faint, i.e., don't give up.

      Bad sowing and reaping:
      • Sow = for one's own flesh
      • Reap = reap corruption from the flesh
      This reaping of corruption from the flesh may be automatic?
      Just because God says He will save all mankind
      does not necessarily mean He won't.

      Offline claypot

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #33 on: March 02, 2009, 11:42:43 PM »
      Man, to me that's a very good point Tony. If I'm reading God right then I am getting infinite good in the form of grace for all the crap that I sow. Hmmmmmmm. That does put a different slant on reaping what we sow. God's ways are always backwards it seems. We diss Him, we sow diss, we reap grace. Go figure.

      cp
      For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

      Offline Tony N

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #34 on: March 03, 2009, 01:53:41 AM »
      Man, to me that's a very good point Tony. If I'm reading God right then I am getting infinite good in the form of grace for all the crap that I sow. Hmmmmmmm. That does put a different slant on reaping what we sow. God's ways are always backwards it seems. We diss Him, we sow diss, we reap grace. Go figure.

      cp

      Paul taught that "All is out of God" and "God is working all together for good" and must have taught that God brings about evil that good may come. Some antagonists to Paul turned that teaching around and calumniated (said bad about Paul) and were spreading a lie that Paul was teaching that "we should be doing evil that good may be coming." This is wrong. We are not God and don't know the outcome of what we do like God does when He brings evil such as He did to His Beloved, Righteous, Holy Son, Jesus Christ. We should not bring evil upon anyone such as Joseph's brothers did. God brought good out of that evil, but Joe's bro's didn't know good would come. We should not sow evil so we reap good. Where was the Aflac duck when Joseph was sold into Egypt? It wasn't all just ducky.

      But unwittingly, we as well as all humanity do do evil so that bad comes yet God mixes our evil in the divine crucible and miraculously turns into good by His divine alchemy.

      Rom 3:8 and why not say, according as we are calumniated and according as some are averring that we are saying, that "We should be doing evil that good may be coming"? - whose judgment is fair."

      I am so thankful to God that my sins are justified in the same sense as someone commits justifiable homicide. In the end God is going to say "You had to do what you did so that My plan could come about. You could not have done otherwise."
      Joseph's brothers committed justifiable kidnapping and receiving a payment to sell Joseph into slavery. By that justifiable sin the world was saved due to Joseph becoming the saviour of the world. Only God is so wise that He can pull off such grand schemes without humans knowing His intention! Glory be to God for the eons of the eons!
      « Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 01:57:13 AM by Tony N »
      Just because God says He will save all mankind
      does not necessarily mean He won't.

      Offline claypot

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #35 on: March 03, 2009, 02:26:28 AM »
      Man, to me that's a very good point Tony. If I'm reading God right then I am getting infinite good in the form of grace for all the crap that I sow. Hmmmmmmm. That does put a different slant on reaping what we sow. God's ways are always backwards it seems. We diss Him, we sow diss, we reap grace. Go figure.

      cp

      Paul taught that "All is out of God" and "God is working all together for good" and must have taught that God brings about evil that good may come. Some antagonists to Paul turned that teaching around and calumniated (said bad about Paul) and were spreading a lie that Paul was teaching that "we should be doing evil that good may be coming." This is wrong. We are not God and don't know the outcome of what we do like God does when He brings evil such as He did to His Beloved, Righteous, Holy Son, Jesus Christ. We should not bring evil upon anyone such as Joseph's brothers did. God brought good out of that evil, but Joe's bro's didn't know good would come. We should not sow evil so we reap good. Where was the Aflac duck when Joseph was sold into Egypt? It wasn't all just ducky.

      But unwittingly, we as well as all humanity do do evil so that bad comes yet God mixes our evil in the divine crucible and miraculously turns into good by His divine alchemy.

      Rom 3:8 and why not say, according as we are calumniated and according as some are averring that we are saying, that "We should be doing evil that good may be coming"? - whose judgment is fair."

      I am so thankful to God that my sins are justified in the same sense as someone commits justifiable homicide. In the end God is going to say "You had to do what you did so that My plan could come about. You could not have done otherwise."
      Joseph's brothers committed justifiable kidnapping and receiving a payment to sell Joseph into slavery. By that justifiable sin the world was saved due to Joseph becoming the saviour of the world. Only God is so wise that He can pull off such grand schemes without humans knowing His intention! Glory be to God for the eons of the eons!

      I hear ya but I get troubled about evil like torture and rape and horrible mutilations of basically innocent people. I work very hard to make God come out the 'good guy' in all these scenarios and I say this with respect to God.

      Personally I don't want to do evil and I don't try to do it but do it I do.

      You used the example of Joseph and I think of Jesus Himself and the horror that was done to Him yet the good that came of it.

      I hate to say it but sometimes I side with the guy who thinks God is playing a cruel joke on us. I know this cannot be true but I gotta say this is quite the trip we are on.

      cp
      For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

      Offline Tony N

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #36 on: March 03, 2009, 02:39:07 AM »
      The apostle Paul was subjected to many horrific things due to his faith. Yet he never thought of this as God playing some cruel joke on him. God was always glorified in his death and life.
      Just because God says He will save all mankind
      does not necessarily mean He won't.

      Offline claypot

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #37 on: March 03, 2009, 04:48:20 AM »
      The apostle Paul was subjected to many horrific things due to his faith. Yet he never thought of this as God playing some cruel joke on him. God was always glorified in his death and life.

      Gotta agree with you again. This is becoming quite a habit.

      Still gotta admit that this is quite a trip we're on. Living in Gods world is one wild ride.

      cp
      For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

      Offline Brian

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #38 on: March 03, 2009, 04:51:16 AM »
      Brain,


      Brain?  :laughing7:

      My last name is Less.

      Change that to Hertz, Brain Hertz. Pray for me folks, I'm going off the deep end again.
      For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

      Offline claypot

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #39 on: March 03, 2009, 04:52:50 AM »
      Brain,


      Brain?  :laughing7:

      My last name is Less.

      Change that to Hertz, Brain Hertz. Pray for me folks, I'm going off the deep end again.

      Care to explain 'deep end' a bit more Brother?

      cp
      For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

      Offline Tony N

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #40 on: March 03, 2009, 12:07:33 PM »
      Brain,


      Brain?  :laughing7:

      My last name is Less.

      Change that to Hertz, Brain Hertz. Pray for me folks, I'm going off the deep end again.

      Care to explain 'deep end' a bit more Brother?

      cp

      Maybe it means he is going on the radio program again?
      Just because God says He will save all mankind
      does not necessarily mean He won't.

      trettep

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #41 on: March 03, 2009, 05:40:47 PM »
      My take is that Lazarus is the reference to the leper that we all know as Simon leper that Jesus raised from the dead.  The very fact that the man has sores that the dog lick show that he is unclean.  Additionally, that the rich man is the High Priest of Israel. 

      What I find interesting is that the High Priest is considered unclean.  The unclean lepers in Israel couldn't enter thru the gates so that they were often outside begging.  It was a fixture between them such that they couldn't cross over to the other side.

      Paul


      Offline Brian

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #42 on: March 04, 2009, 12:13:54 AM »
      Quote
      Change that to Hertz, Brain Hertz. Pray for me folks, I'm going off the deep end again.

      Care to explain 'deep end' a bit more Brother?

      cp
      [/quote]

      Like a lot of people here, I have emotional/psychological/spiritual problems. I had a pretty bad nervous breakdown a few months ago. At best I'm having a meltdown right now. I don't want to go into specifics in public, for concern of putting out a stumbling block.
      For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

      Offline claypot

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #43 on: March 04, 2009, 12:43:54 AM »
      Quote
      Change that to Hertz, Brain Hertz. Pray for me folks, I'm going off the deep end again.

      Care to explain 'deep end' a bit more Brother?

      cp

      Like a lot of people here, I have emotional/psychological/spiritual problems. I had a pretty bad nervous breakdown a few months ago. At best I'm having a meltdown right now. I don't want to go into specifics in public, for concern of putting out a stumbling block.
      Quote

      Gotcha. You're in good hands and I think you know it.

      cp
      For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

      Offline Tony N

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      Re: Rich Man and Lazarus Discussed on National Radio by me.
      « Reply #44 on: March 04, 2009, 02:13:50 AM »
      Quote
      Change that to Hertz, Brain Hertz. Pray for me folks, I'm going off the deep end again.

      Care to explain 'deep end' a bit more Brother?

      cp

      Like a lot of people here, I have emotional/psychological/spiritual problems. I had a pretty bad nervous breakdown a few months ago. At best I'm having a meltdown right now. I don't want to go into specifics in public, for concern of putting out a stumbling block.
      [/quote]

      Brian, we are for you! God is for you! Christ is for you! Satan is against you! He wants to beat you down! Put on the whole armor of God bro!

      But I know what you mean. I had a very bad threatening email from my ex today and it really caused me to be very sad that people can be so cruel. Why can't peole just be nice?
      Just because God says He will save all mankind
      does not necessarily mean He won't.