Author Topic: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings  (Read 12769 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #100 on: June 13, 2014, 09:42:22 AM »
Gal 3:23-24 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law (Torah), kept for the faith that would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.

Most Bibles translate the  Greek word paidogogous as tutor or schoolmaster, but the real meaning is a little different.

Among the Greeks and Romans the name was applied to trustworthy slaves who were charged with the duty of supervising the life and morals of boys belonging to the better class. The boys were not allowed so much as to step out of the house without them before arriving at the age of manhood.

Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, p. 472
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #101 on: June 13, 2014, 11:29:22 AM »
It is finished.

Those few words have a lot of (hidden) meanings.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished.
When the last Passover lamb was killed the high priest said: "It's finished."


"It is finished" in Greek often is said be a shorthand form of "tetelestai" which was written on legal documents to show a debt was fully paid. While some totally disagree with John 19:30 referencing to that word many assume Jesus was saying He paid our debts of sin on the cross. I agree with that but think there is a second meaning. It was also His payment of the Mohar the bride's price or bride's ransom.

"It is finished" in Hebrew can be seen a play on word to reference to a wedding. He paid the Mohar, bride's price.

The Shabbat in Jewish tradition is compared to a bride. Just as the veil of the bride is removed after the blessings have been recited, so are the Challah "unveiled" after the blessing is recited and the bread is about to be cut. The Challah is three breads braided into a lover's embrace of the couple with God in their relationship. It also represents the first three covenants that merge into one as the ultimate covenant: marriage.






Finished = Kalah = כלה = pronounced as: kaw-law
Bread = Challah = חלה = pronounced as: khaw-law
Bride = kallâh = כּלּה = pronounced as: kal-law
The above words are pronounce quite similarly.



So Jesus said a whole lot of things with His last words. The most important ones can be summarized as:

- I paid for my bride. (Hebrew)
- I paid the debt of sin. (Greek)
- The last Lamb has been sacrificed. (Priestly proclamation)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #102 on: June 13, 2014, 10:07:22 PM »
 :cloud9: :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #103 on: July 10, 2014, 06:47:55 PM »
Saul was on the road to Damascus to kill heretical Jews aka Christians. Damascus was a nickname for Qumran, which wasn't in Syria but 15 miles from Jerusalem and 8 miles from Jericho.

Qumran is the place where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 09:21:26 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Online gregoryfl

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #104 on: July 10, 2014, 07:38:08 PM »
Awesome! Thanks for sharing that.

Offline marie glen

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #105 on: July 12, 2014, 01:04:02 AM »
Gal 3:23-24 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law (Torah), kept for the faith that would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.

Most Bibles translate the  Greek word paidogogous as tutor or schoolmaster, but the real meaning is a little different.

Among the Greeks and Romans the name was applied to trustworthy slaves who were charged with the duty of supervising the life and morals of boys belonging to the better class. The boys were not allowed so much as to step out of the house without them before arriving at the age of manhood.

Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, p. 472


..I've always translated this word "tutor" as "babysitter"..
- Is it written? no repentance after death? if resurrected still in ones sins (2nd Resurrection) will be weeping and wailing? Holy Days - Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles prophecy the three peaks of His long 2nd advent? Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process?
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- "...aLL things new" Rev21:5 "A new heavens and a new earth" Rev 21:1 - Is 11:7 Micah 4:4 Is 30:25
http://www.bubblews.com/news/8905465 - Sinead O'connor singing psalms 33, 91

Offline Seth

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #106 on: July 12, 2014, 01:24:49 AM »
The boys were not allowed so much as to step out of the house without them before arriving at the age of manhood.

That's interesting. So there was a time when they no longer needed the tutor...

Online gregoryfl

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #107 on: July 12, 2014, 02:28:35 AM »
The boys were not allowed so much as to step out of the house without them before arriving at the age of manhood.

That's interesting. So there was a time when they no longer needed the tutor...
Thankfully yes. I guard and protect his torah, knowing that that which is in my heart is no outward letter, for the written letter led me to discover the inner reality by means of the faith of Yeshua. While physical Israel observes Shavuot, thankful for the outward giving of Torah, as it approaches later this month I will be observing it as the reality it points to, the Father and Son who live in the human inner man, his very breath (character) as that which finds expression through me.

Ronen

Offline Seth

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #108 on: July 12, 2014, 02:34:53 AM »
Thankfully yes. I guard and protect his torah, knowing that that which is in my heart is no outward letter, for the written letter led me to discover the inner reality by means of the faith of Yeshua.

Yes, you guard and protect the Torah, but it does not guard or protect you, because, once mature, you leave aside the things of the child, such as the tutor. Jesus, the living Spirit guards and tutors me now.

How would it look if you grew up to manhood, but your tutor kept following you around trying to teach you how to get by, when you already know? Wouldn't you say to the tutor, thank you, but I have grown up now, I can walk and live and work as a man, not a child.

Online gregoryfl

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #109 on: July 12, 2014, 01:13:26 PM »
Yes, you guard and protect the Torah, but it does not guard or protect you, because, once mature, you leave aside the things of the child, such as the tutor. Jesus, the living Spirit guards and tutors me now.

How would it look if you grew up to manhood, but your tutor kept following you around trying to teach you how to get by, when you already know? Wouldn't you say to the tutor, thank you, but I have grown up now, I can walk and live and work as a man, not a child.
I believe it does, but not in the sense I see you writing in.

Since I am no longer under the tutor, yes, that tutor no longer outwardly guards or protects me. What the tutor has taught though, that guards and protects me. You yourself said it, that Yeshua guards and protects, for he is the goal of Torah, just as the goal of a child under a tutor would have been to learn from them and safely reach manhood. Manhood is the goal.

I will use this example from my own life to see if it helps, that you will understand where I am coming from.

I took up a medical assistant trade while in the military. The tutor, my instructor, taught me what I need to know, including how to do my job safely by keeping within the parameters of what I was to do. When I graduated, I was no longer under that tutor, but what he left me stayed on, continuing to guard and protect me (for example, I knew how to dispose of a used needle so as not to stick myself or others). I applied that practice in the way I was taught, and so was guarding and protecting the medical assistant field as well.

So yes, if my tutor followed me around when I was working and trying to continue showing me what to do, I would certainly respond as you did. I left that tutor, but not what the tutor has taught me.

I see it working that way in every situation. We all had parents, who tutored us into adulthood, and even though we are no longer under their tutelage as when children, what they taught us stays with us, guarding and protecting us. As I live according to what they taught me as a child, I am then guarding and protecting my adulthood. That is the sense in which I mean it.

As Paul, who was also no longer under the tutorship of the Torah, I too, rejoice in the Torah according to my inner man, and am a servant of it.

For I rejoice in the Torah of Alaha, in the interior man.
(Rom 7:22)
(Rom 7:26) Now, therefore, in my conscience, I am a servant of the Torah of Alaha; but in my flesh, I am a servant of the law of sin.

That tutor led me to Messiah, and in so doing, also taught me the reality that as long as I try to observe Torah in my flesh, it will only awaken sin within my members to kill me again and again. The Torah does not reside in my flesh, but in my inner man, the heart, conscience.

No, I am not referring to a bunch of do's and don'ts, but of the realities of God's very nature and character, expressed in his Dabar, living within each and every one of us. That is the Torah he said he would place in the heart, which he did when he came to take up residence in us.

Ronen
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 01:23:44 PM by gregoryfl »

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #110 on: July 12, 2014, 03:38:50 PM »
The only reason a person is no longer under a tutor is because the person behaves like taught.
A tutor keeps a boy from sticking his and in boiling water and the grown man doesn't stick his hands in boiling water.
The lessons of the tutor are now written on his heart.
It simply means the Torah never ever is done away with. We are either forced to follow it (letter) or it has become our nature (heart).
People seem to think/hope the Torah is been done away. For me that's stating that the USA no long has a law and constitution because they are no longer written on paper but now are stored on a DVD.  Different medium, same law.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

saintwalee

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #111 on: July 12, 2014, 05:15:42 PM »
Thankfully yes. I guard and protect his torah, knowing that that which is in my heart is no outward letter, for the written letter led me to discover the inner reality by means of the faith of Yeshua.

Yes, you guard and protect the Torah, but it does not guard or protect you, because, once mature, you leave aside the things of the child, such as the tutor. Jesus, the living Spirit guards and tutors me now.

How would it look if you grew up to manhood, but your tutor kept following you around trying to teach you how to get by, when you already know? Wouldn't you say to the tutor, thank you, but I have grown up now, I can walk and live and work as a man, not a child.

1Co 13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.


Luk 6:39  And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
Luk 6:40  The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.


The master of what? Of our sinful nature.

1Jn_5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Jas 2:24  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


The commandments reflect the nature of sinful man, but have no power to overcome that nature. It is only by faith that can overcome. Overcome what, overcome our sinful nature. And by faith, as James points out, we have the power to live righteously. The just shall live by faith.

Convicted by the law, empowered by faith unto good works.

 :2c:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2014, 05:31:59 PM »
And when a person has faith. Lives fully according to that faith and shows all the good works. (very Jesus like).
Would the person live according to the law or just lives as the law doesn't exist at all? After all the is tutor gone. God's law is in the trash can. Or not?

PS When I write Law I mean God's law. Not man made additions and 'improvements'.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Seth

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #113 on: July 12, 2014, 08:51:42 PM »
And when a person has faith. Lives fully according to that faith and shows all the good works. (very Jesus like).
Would the person live according to the law or just lives as the law doesn't exist at all? After all the is tutor gone. God's law is in the trash can. Or not?

God's law isn't in the trash any more than the tutor is in the trash. But the tutor ceases to be the tutor for the mature man.

Let's take a look at the larger context of the schoolmaster quote"

Galatians 5
21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Paul is using a tutor metaphor, but he is using it in his own way. He is not saying that the tutor actually instilled righteousness. If so, then life and righteousness could come by the Law. The Law wasn't teaching righteousness. It was only teaching that we are sinners and in need of salvation.

The righteousness comes by walking according to the Spirit, and how that Grace teaches us to be righteous. This is why Jesus was not under the schoolteacher. He didn't have any sin, and he did not need to be "shut up unto the faith" or concluded under sin. He was already mature.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 09:10:29 PM by Seth »

Offline Seth

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #114 on: July 12, 2014, 09:10:54 PM »
The commandments reflect the nature of sinful man, but have no power to overcome that nature. It is only by faith that can overcome. Overcome what, overcome our sinful nature. And by faith, as James points out, we have the power to live righteously. The just shall live by faith.

Convicted by the law, empowered by faith unto good works.

 :2c:

Yes, exactly right. Although I would say that we are empowered by grace which comes by faith:

Titus 2:11
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #115 on: July 13, 2014, 01:58:51 PM »
The term 'Essene' was acceptable, Professor Black wrote:
provided we do not define Essenism too narrowly, for instance, by equating it exclusively with the Dead Sea group, but are prepared to understand the term as a general description of this widespread movement of anti-Jerusalem, anti-Pharisaic non-conformity of the period. It is from such an 'Essene-type' of Judaism that Christianity is descended.


Christians = Nazorean = Jessaeans = widespread movement of anti-Jerusalem, anti-Pharisaic non-conformity'.

The Qumran community referred to themselves was 'Keepers of the Covenant' = 'Nozrei ha-Brit'. From this term derives the word 'Nozrim' one of the earliest Hebrew designations for the sect subsequently known as 'Christians'.

The modern Arabic word for Christians, 'Nasrani', derives from the same source. So, too, does the word 'Nazorean' or 'Nazarene', which, of course, was the name by which the 'early Christians' referred to themselves in both the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles.

Contrary to the assumptions of later tradition, it has nothing whatever to do with Jesus' alleged upbringing in Nazareth, which, the evidence (or lack of it) suggests, did not even exist at the time. Indeed, it seems to have been the very perplexity of early commentators encountering the unfamiliar term 'Nazorean' that led them to conclude Jesus' family came from Nazareth, which by then had appeared on the map.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Grab Bag - Various Christian/UR Musings
« Reply #116 on: July 29, 2014, 08:47:51 AM »
Dietary advice in Daniel (?)



Daniel 1:12-15New International Version (NIV)

12 "Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see." 14 So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days.

15 At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+1:12-15
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 08:56:24 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...