Author Topic: Question  (Read 6274 times)

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Offline willieH

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Re: Question
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2008, 08:57:33 AM »
willieH: Hi Molly... :hithere:

Yes, He draws the line--as in 'cut off'


Your view still remains from the NATURAL perspective Molly... JESUS CHRIST from the SPIRITUAL perspective said:  "It IS FINISHED..."  (the word "IS", indicates the ETERNAL and SPIRITUAL perspective)

Something that IS FINISHED, needs no further action...  :dontknow:

That which is "cut off" (because of affiliations with the "NATURAL"), ...ARE grafted IN by His (from the SPIRITUAL perspective) completed mission...

As far as TIME bound observations which note men still going through the process, ...these are seen from a finite perspective which is YET viewing in the NATURAL...

When you begin to observe from the ETERNAL perspective... you see such as: (2 Cor 5:19 / 1 Tim 4:9-11 / John 3:16-17 / John 1:29)  These and many more indicate ETERNAL perspective... GOD so LOVED the WORLD and does not change, meaning He STILL LOVES the World, and ALWAYS WILL LOVE the WORLD...etc.

ETERNAL perspective:

JESUS CHRIST ..."took away" the SIN of the WORLD (John 1:29), it is therefore NO LONGER an issue (2 Cor 5:19) and "It IS FINISHED" (John 19:30)... etc.

Which is WHY we must LOVE our enemies... for ALL are indeed, our brothers and sisters which ARE (not "will be") found within the ETERNAL PERSPECTIVE...  :thumbsup:

pEACe...
...willieH  :icon_jokercolor:

whyiloveitaly.com

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Re: Question
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2008, 09:13:45 AM »
There are people today who struggle with having boldness regarding the security of their salvation. This is because they (also like me) have been taught by man that the sacrifice of the Lamb of God is only valid in putting away their sins "if they choose it."

But the fact is that God required a perfect blood sacrifice in order to do away with ALL sin. And that is what He did at Calvary.

It means that the whole world is covered in blood. The blood of the Lamb.

So do all walk in righteousness? No, at this time we only see Jesus.

Every man's work shall be tested through the fire of God, which will burn up all the hay, stubble and that which cannot stand. And for those who spite the blood they are now covered in, that is not good.

What may be worse, is that many refuse Christ because they have been taught that they are not covered in the blood until they "choose it." And so they rebel.

But they are not being asked by God to "choose it." That is not what sacrifice nor grace are all about. Grace means that we didn't deserve it. And, of course, no one deserves to be covered in the blood. Yet we ALL are covered in the blood, because HE LOVED US FIRST.

And since we have all been reconciled to God through the cross, we are now to encourage one another in walking in holiness. (That's not about being "saved by works" because no one is saved by the works. -We are to walk in righteousness because we have been purchased by precious blood. That's obedience and love as a natural response to the goodness of God towards all mankind!)

See the difference?

Love to all,
Brian

Offline studier

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Re: Question
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2008, 10:56:03 AM »
You got it Brian!  :icon_king: :icon_queen:

whyiloveitaly.com

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Re: Question
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2008, 12:50:12 PM »
I believe that's why Jesus Christ was the LAST Adam. We (the world) are not in Adam any longer. The Blood Covenant now covers all flesh.
Now we still see the shadow of what sin was; but God has put all sin away.
And now that He has washed the whole race of mankind in His blood, He is calling us to walk with Him and obey Him.

That's why I can say today that we will all make it in. Because He has cleansed us all. Hallelujah!!

Love to all,
Brian

jabcat

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Re: Question
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2008, 12:54:42 AM »
You may be absolutely, completely right.  So don't see this as an argument, but as an expression of current understanding.  I see that all will come to God and that all sin will be eradicated.  Please give me a thought-out answer (whoever) to this, again not as arguing.  If I went next door and brutally murdered my neighbor, from the "total-inclusive" POV, how would God view that?  As "sin is gone, completely put away", or I would be forgiven and purged of it as part of the ongoing process of God's plan(s)?  God's blessing, James.

Interesting (to me) observation.  I notice within UR believers there is still a pretty clear-cut difference in POV between those that believe Jesus will drag all and will save all, vs. those that believe it's already totally been done.  As I see it, 1st group is "provision made, in progress, will be completed", 2nd group is "totally done deal, no sin, all already saved".  And these are all people that love Jesus, believe in Him, trust Him, and believe He is the Savior of the world...but with different understandings, paradigms.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 12:56:26 AM by jabcat »

Offline studier

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Re: Question
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2008, 01:35:51 AM »
I see it as was and is and is to come.  :cloud9:

whyiloveitaly.com

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Re: Question
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2008, 11:23:21 AM »
From the POV that all will have their works tried through fire, it's not sin as a barrier between God and man that is a problem. In the old testament, sin put a barrier between God and man. (Strangely, still today almost all of Christendom claims that there is still a barrier of sin between God and man. They don't see the sacrifice!!)
But through Jesus Christ, God has put away sin.

So you're question about sinning is somewhat errant. Sin is not the problem. The "problem" is that what we sow is what we shall have when we stand before God. If we sow unrighteousness in this life (ie. killing our neighbor), the flames of purification will be hotter.
In fact, judgment may be more "severe" than if there were still yearly sacrifices. This is because the perfect sacrifice has been provided, and yet man spites this Gift.
In reality, Christendom doesn't understand the Gift, and it teaches that we still need to be forgiven, when we are all actually already covered.

Paul, in his letters/epistles, gives a lot of commandments. Do this, do that, don't do this..... Seems like the law? Well, it would, except that the restitution has been made. God is now calling all men (and women :) ) to walk in righteousness.

Still, many spite this calling, or don't understand that they are under the Blood. And that's no little thing!


I'm writing this, but still trying to understand what I myself am writing. Or maybe I don't fully understand it.
The only thing I'm thinking about is, what is making a sacrifice all about? (For we know that grace is UNMERITED favor.)

Love to all,
Brian

jabcat

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Re: Question
« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2008, 11:46:55 AM »
Nah, it makes sense...not sure it's the absolute "final, total answer", but it makes sense...Not sure the question is errant  :wink:, because you would agree that killing my neighbor would be a sin, right?  It's really then about how God views it and deals with it, and I s/w understand your answer to that.  I'll think about it....right now, this date, this moment, I really think I'll end up (probably already there to some degree) somewhere in the middle...the was, is, will be that Craig mentioned, which surely includes much of your POV....we'll see, God will probably surprise me.  Thanks.

P.S.  Also Brian, in this paradigm, if it was you that murdered your neighbor...would you think "I messed up, I need to live more righteously (and/or including looking to Him for your righteousness/help you live right, etc), or confess your sin/ask God's forgiveness then do the above?  Something "smaller" even...curse word/"unclean communication"...in your POV is it "I need to not do that", or "God forgive me of my sin"?  I really am thinking about this, not just messin' with you  :happygrin:...God's blessing, James.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 12:59:05 PM by jabcat »