Author Topic: God's Will  (Read 4095 times)

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Offline Seth

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #125 on: July 31, 2014, 04:29:03 AM »
Just to be clear, I am in no, in NO WAY, fearful of God giving me "free will." I agree with this statement: "When you obey because you want to you are free." Yet what I believe is that God CAUSES us to want to obey, by reducing the power of the lusts of the flesh to obey him. God cuts the cord of the flesh to our mind, and we become obedient. Then he continues to water us so that his conversion of our souls is all his work and not our own.

God keeps his converted. The devil CANNOT deceive the very elect, because God chose them from before they were born.

It's not that I am afraid of having too much freedom. One aspect we are not discussing is the Dragon.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


How much does that VERY subtle deception affect the will of man who is not kept by God? That is why even after initial salvation we depend on God to grow us. If we are vessels prepared for destruction, we would most likely become "brute beasts" as Peter put it. You can tell by the fruit.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 04:34:16 AM by Seth »

Offline eaglesway

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #126 on: July 31, 2014, 08:34:16 AM »

Just to be clear, I am in no, in NO WAY, fearful of God giving me "free will." I agree with this statement: "When you obey because you want to you are free." Yet what I believe is that God CAUSES us to want to obey, by reducing the power of the lusts of the flesh to obey him. God cuts the cord of the flesh to our mind, and we become obedient. Then he continues to water us so that his conversion of our souls is all his work and not our own.



 :iagree:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline micah7:9

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #127 on: July 31, 2014, 08:47:33 AM »
Jesus did not say to Peter, "When you choose to be converted, strengthen the brethren".

He said, "When you are converted, strengthen the brethren".

Peter did not convert himself, nor did I indicate that he did. :o)

A process of trials and tribulations- failures leading to brokeness(a broken and a contrite heart) designed by God caused Peters growth into a "converted" man.

By "coonverted", Jesus was not talking about salvation. He was talking about brokeness. Peter was saved already. He had confessed Jesus as Lord and Jesus had said to him, "Man did not reveal this to you" and "You are all clean because of the words I have spoken to you".

My point was not that we choose to be converted. My point was that once we are converted(broken, yielded, submissive) we are free.

When you obey because you want to you are free. So many people are so afraid that perhaps God may give believers a little freedom. Why? Do we not trust Him? Do we not know Him, and His ways? Hav we not been discipled of Him? Perhaps not. Fear has torment.

For freedom Christ has set you free. The one whom the son sets free shall be FREE INDEED. - Not in theory, or in itsy bitsy fearful increments.

Our mother is the heavenly Jerusalem who is FREE.

We are growing into freedom because our hearts are coming into oneness/union/harmony with Him- not so we can glory or take credit.

Freely you have received freely give.

Can one not be free and humble and submissive to the will of the Father at the same time? Of course one can. Grace as provided the faith to do so and to God be all the glory, and Christ, who is the fountain through which this freedom flows.

God will free your will from the flesh and unite it to Himself by love- and there is a sentence where "free" and "will" can be used together for sure.

I am amazed that so many can only see absolute extremes when it vcomes to this topic. It is a mystery and a matter of degrees. A paradox hidden in the language of scriptures. A single coin whose two sides seem opposed to some but are actually united as one by the only union there is. Love.  That's the place where all mysteries are resolved.

We are called, chosen and elected- to be conformed to the image of Christ- WITHIN. Jesus was free, like the wind that blows where it wills....WHAT! SO IT IS WITH EVERYONE WHO IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT.(Jn 3:8)

How else can we bring the whole creation into the glorious liberty of the children of God.  :cloud9:

"Peter was saved already." EW
I would question that. Should Peter have been saved-made whole-healed, then he imo would have ascended to heaven and we know that is not so.

"My point was not that we choose to be converted. My point was that once we are converted(broken, yielded, submissive) we are free." EW

Free do what? What we desire? What we want? Free how? We are still in the flesh and you know what the flesh desires.

"When you obey because you want to you are free. So many people are so afraid that perhaps God may give believers a little freedom. Why? Do we not trust Him? Do we not know Him, and His ways? Hav we not been discipled of Him? Perhaps not. Fear has torment.
For freedom Christ has set you free. The one whom the son sets free shall be FREE INDEED. - Not in theory, or in itsy bitsy fearful increments." EW

That freedom you speak of, now, when the Spirit is operating in you, is not your freedom it is the leading of the Spirit that has cleaned your thinking and now you free to yield to that energy.

"God will free your will from the flesh and unite it to Himself by love- and there is a sentence where "free" and "will" can be used together for sure." EW

Listen to yourself, "GOD WILL FREE YOUR WILL FROM THE FLESH….." when that happens I believe you are now yielding to His Will and the will of the flesh you were born with is suffocated. I know you didn't mean "God will free your will from the flesh and unite it to Himself…." Rom 7:18  For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not.


This in my opinion, your opinion is a stumbling block…. "I am amazed that so many can only see absolute extremes when it vcomes to this topic. It is a mystery and a matter of degrees. A paradox hidden in the language of scriptures. A single coin whose two sides seem opposed to some but are actually united as one by the only union there is. Love.  That's the place where all mysteries are resolved."

My friend, should it be LOVE, then one's will, belongs the One who is love, and one cannot perform love outside of his Will.

"How else can we bring the whole creation into the glorious liberty of the children of God.   "
There you go, "HOW ELSE CAN "WE"…" here is a news flash WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING, unless it is HIS WILL. He was, is, and will take full responsibility for All that His creation performs. :HeartThrob: :2c:

Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #128 on: July 31, 2014, 09:04:30 AM »
If he had been saved he would have ascended into heaven? Don't get that :Chinscratch:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline micah7:9

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #129 on: July 31, 2014, 09:28:51 AM »
If he had been saved he would have ascended into heaven? Don't get that :Chinscratch:

Really? If Peter was saved he would have been complete just as Jesus was complete. EW we are all human beings until the finale and the saving is complete, finished. Peter was imo, a fisherman, who was chosen to be a disciple and when converted was an Apostle. He was still a man/human in the working in the plan of salvation. He hasn't made being saved.....yet
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Seth

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #130 on: July 31, 2014, 05:03:42 PM »
Peter does mention that baptism is our salvation  by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, likening that to the Ark. Paul also says that we were reconciled by his death and how much more so having been reconciled shall we be saved by his life. EW, you are right, Peter was cleansed by the words Jesus spoke, but I see that as being cleansed from falsehoods. I think the salvation process really started at Pentecost for him.

Peter's method of sharing the gospel was to say repent and receive the Holy Spirit and be saved from this wicked generation. I think Peter needed that as well.

Offline Tony N

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #131 on: July 31, 2014, 08:45:06 PM »
Joh_1:13 who were begotten, not of bloods, neither of the will of the flesh, neither of the will of a man, but of God."
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Tony N

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #132 on: July 31, 2014, 08:47:03 PM »
If he had been saved he would have ascended into heaven? Don't get that :Chinscratch:

I don't get that either.
Why would Peter ascend into heaven? He remains on the earth and will sit on one of the 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel with the other 11 apostles in Israel during the Millennial reign of Christ.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #133 on: July 31, 2014, 08:58:51 PM »
How is this done? Is there a verse of scripture?
"We are free to will the spirit in our hearts to grow.
We freely choose the spirit  of Life or the spirit of death."



Jer 17:9  Crooked is the heart above all things, And it is incurable--who doth know it?
Jer 17:10  I Jehovah do search the heart, try the reins, Even to give to each according to his way, According to the fruit of his doings.
 Mar_7:21  for from within, out of the heart of men, the evil reasonings do come forth, adulteries, whoredoms, murders,
Mar 7:21  For from within, out of the heart of men, evil thoughts proceed, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,
Mar 7:22  covetings, wickednesses, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, railing, pride, foolishness:
Mar 7:23  all these evil things proceed from within, and defile the man.

I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Choose life so that you and your descendants may live,

Then the LORD instructed Gad, David's seer, 10 "Go and say to David, 'This is what the LORD says: I am offering you three choices. Choose one of them for yourself, and I will do it to you.'"
11 So Gad went to David and said to him, "This is what the LORD says: 'Take your choice: 12 three years of famine, or three months of devastation by your foes with the sword of your enemy overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the LORD—a plague on the land, the angel of the LORD bringing destruction to the whole territory of Israel.' Now decide what answer I should take back to the One who sent me."
Who is the man who fears the Lord? He will show him the way he should choose.

Because they hated knowledge, didn't choose to fear the Lord,

Offline micah7:9

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #134 on: July 31, 2014, 09:11:50 PM »
If he had been saved he would have ascended into heaven? Don't get that :Chinscratch:

I don't get that either.
Why would Peter ascend into heaven? He remains on the earth and will sit on one of the 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel with the other 11 apostles in Israel during the Millennial reign of Christ.

My point which I now see I posted wrong. Peter was still alive and in the process of being saved.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Seth

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #135 on: July 31, 2014, 09:29:35 PM »
If I understand you correctly, you meant that ascending to heaven is the endpoint of this life long process of being saved, the final shedding of the flesh. If so, I see it the same way.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #136 on: July 31, 2014, 09:32:26 PM »
 :Peace2:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Tony N

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #137 on: July 31, 2014, 10:32:01 PM »
How is this done? Is there a verse of scripture?
"We are free to will the spirit in our hearts to grow.
We freely choose the spirit  of Life or the spirit of death."



Jer 17:9  Crooked is the heart above all things, And it is incurable--who doth know it?
Jer 17:10  I Jehovah do search the heart, try the reins, Even to give to each according to his way, According to the fruit of his doings.
 Mar_7:21  for from within, out of the heart of men, the evil reasonings do come forth, adulteries, whoredoms, murders,
Mar 7:21  For from within, out of the heart of men, evil thoughts proceed, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,
Mar 7:22  covetings, wickednesses, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, railing, pride, foolishness:
Mar 7:23  all these evil things proceed from within, and defile the man.

I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Choose life so that you and your descendants may live,

Then the LORD instructed Gad, David's seer, 10 "Go and say to David, 'This is what the LORD says: I am offering you three choices. Choose one of them for yourself, and I will do it to you.'"
11 So Gad went to David and said to him, "This is what the LORD says: 'Take your choice: 12 three years of famine, or three months of devastation by your foes with the sword of your enemy overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the LORD—a plague on the land, the angel of the LORD bringing destruction to the whole territory of Israel.' Now decide what answer I should take back to the One who sent me."
Who is the man who fears the Lord? He will show him the way he should choose.

Because they hated knowledge, didn't choose to fear the Lord,
As for "choosing life," they thought they were choosing life but in fact the law is death chiseled in stone.  Of course they didn't know that at that juncture.
But one must ask: what caused them to choose whatever it was they chose? Was their choice totally free from cause? But even after they chose, Joshua told them they cannot serve the Lord.

I think God put it in David's heart to choose the right thing out of the three choices.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 10:56:58 PM by Tony N »
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #138 on: July 31, 2014, 11:08:48 PM »
I think God put it in David's heart to choose the right thing out of the three choices.

Why did God want David to believe he had a choice ?

Offline dajomaco

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #139 on: July 31, 2014, 11:15:43 PM »
I believe to love the Lord with all of our heart.

We must somehow believe we chose to love him.
Even though we know we have no free will in this area.

We can have faith that somehow we have freely chosen to  Love Jesus.
We can ignore the reality that it was not our choice.

Offline Seth

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #140 on: July 31, 2014, 11:24:56 PM »
Quote
I believe to love the Lord with all of our heart. We must somehow believe we chose to love him.

Some folks think that, and I respect your difference of opinion. But my awe at how God is able to execute his plan without fail and with perfect foreknowledge, reminds me of how great and vast he is compared to us little humans. And then I add to that how he loves us regardless of our smallness. That makes me love God all the more.

I don't have to think that I freely chose God in order to love him. That's just me personally.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #141 on: Today at 12:58:46 AM »
If you believe in hell you can Love Jesus because he kept you out of hell.
Or if you don't Love him he will sent you to hell.

People say they Love Jesus. In reality they can't.

If I say Jesus loves me. This is a statement of fact.

I'm called to love God .
I have to believe that it is possible.

Offline Seth

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #142 on: Today at 01:28:25 AM »
If you believe in hell you can Love Jesus because he kept you out of hell.
Or if you don't Love him he will sent you to hell.

People say they Love Jesus. In reality they can't.

If I say Jesus loves me. This is a statement of fact.

I'm called to love God .
I have to believe that it is possible.

Of course it's possible. God caused you to love him by revealing himself to you. As it says in the Bible "We love him because he first loved us."