Author Topic: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?  (Read 2410 times)

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gky

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Hello all,

This isn't theological / doctrinal but instead a family/interrelational question to you.
I would think a few of you went through this if you are not going through this now.

How do/did you handle your relational predicaments with your spouse, children,
grandchildren as you are/were in process of embracing UR?  This question is particularly for those whose entire family, including yourself, spent much of your family life immersed in the traditional Christianity/church lifestyle previous to your beginning the process of embracing UR.  Profound disagreement from others is OK.
But living with your family while being in process is ... interesting.

Example predicaments.
1. Sharing UR with your spouse (the very first person you would share with),
        but your spouse goes ballistic.   Now you and your spouse are not at all
        on the same page spiritually speaking.

2. How do you break this to your young children/grandchildren when they enjoy
        going to church and have been introduced to the traditional concept
        of heaven and hell, especially knowing this will add conflict
        between you and your spouse (your adult children if grandchildren)?

3. Spouse gets on you for NOT going to church, and thereby accuses you of setting a
        bad example for your young children/grandchildren. Yet you find it intolorable
        to sit in a pew and play along while listening to the pastor regurgitate
        cliches and fellowshipping with a congregation that is set in their ways.

4. Young children or grandchildren
    a. Your spouse or ETers bring up their cliches before your children/grandchildren
    b. Do you intervene when your adult children teach their children (your grandchildren)
            about ET?
    c. Your young children / grandchildren ask great tough questions when scripture
            is read to them (i.e. Old testament genocides, etc) 


Well you get the idea.
If my adult children or young grandchildren ask me anything along these lines,
I will gently share my honest take (and accept heat from my wife).  Other than that,
I bite my tongue.  I interpret their direct questions to me as "opportunity", but
won't impose beyond that.  I respect my adult children as parents, since they do
live a very responsible and loving "Christian" life with my grandchildren (i.e
Christian home schooling, prayers before eating, reading Bible singing and praying
when putting them to bed, VeggieTales etc).

What's your take?
Thanks!

Offline chuckt

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 06:34:25 PM »
must be tough....

keep the peace at ALL cost's...lead by example and always remember 1 cor 13 and  1 cor 7.

may Gods hand be upon you.

chuckt
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Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 07:10:06 PM »

Three things I had to spend time on that really had nothing to do with UR /ET.

1. Spend time talking about the fact that you have not given up on God
2. Spend time loving your family.
3 Spend little time trying to convince your family that your right and they are wrong.

Just love them and accept that fact that they are on different paths than you are. Trying to drive a wedge between them and the aspect of belief that they still think is true will unlikely do much good.


Not saying this will fit your circumstance, but it is what I do now.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 08:04:12 PM by Paul Hazelwood »

Offline Dallas

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 07:27:05 PM »
My advice, since I also went through this and now my girlfriend is also going through this is....

Don't do what my girlfriend did!

Don't tell everyone. How long have you been learning about the inclusion of God? The change of doctrine and bible understanding will take sometime, you don't need the stress of persecution while you go through this. And most likely none of them will understand of even be willing to hear you, you'll just be casting yourself as the black sheep.

If this has already happened, stop declaring your change, go on studying. Don't be afraid to express yourself about what you see, just don't call it universalism. It's a really bad word to them, so don't use it. Most people have universal thoughts and don't realize it, they may even find what you say is enlightening, just stay away from labeling.

Meet on grounds of things you agree and slowly let them accept you, let them become aware you haven't become a devil. If you feel the need to shout what you are seeing, just don't shout it to them.

I went through it primarily single while raising my daughter (her living with me alone 8 years), my parents pretty much accepted me, but I did lose all my friends, many called me a heritic, and I was throuwn out of churches and threatened with police, my bible studies were kicked out of the places we were holding them, and  I was approached by other parents and threatened to leave them alone.


My girlfriend who has now come into the understanding, pretty much a regular christian before, has become completley rejected by her family, once a close knit group, now her mom calls once every two months for ten minutes. They used to sing togeth at family gathering and spend lots of free time together as a group....she isn;t even invited anymore.

Again, I suggest, step back, givem time, your wife will follow....she loves you, she will follow. Maybe not where or as far as you go, but she will come. Just don't tell her she's wrong, let her have her understanding cause remember that's what you want from her, the right to have your understanding.



Good Luck
Dallas

gky

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2010, 08:20:14 PM »
Good points about breaking this in gently.  I'm the introvert type, so if anything,
I'm pretty reserved to begin with,  especially presenting something like UR.  I have a ways to go before locking into UR myself, so I'm certainly not in a position
(and don't forsee myself being in a position) to be dogmatic.

1. I'm really curious (to all of you) - do/did you continue to go to church?
2. How do/did you handle the cognitive dissonance with that?
3. If you continued to "fellowship" in church, AND if you were heavily involoved in
       "ministry", did you pull out of that as a first step (hence forcing you to give reason
        to everyone for such a decision, etc)?
4. Did you ever come to a point of broaching a conflicting topic with the teacher/pastor?

The above is a deeper sub-question of the original question because you
end up taking this home (i.e. my wife and I both participated in music ministry but
my inability to just "play along" [no pun intended] provoked my wife to
question me on that as well).   These are the many ways the process of transition to UR
affects the everyday life in a "traditional Christian" home.


Keep on posting - I'm really grateful to you

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2010, 08:58:08 PM »
 :cloud9: I was heavily involved in ministry, and He had me leave the church I helped found. My older children were grown, and my youngest is more in tune and I'm able to share more, so she knew what was "wrong". I had more hassles from the other church members who had no clue (and would not listen) as to why I insisted He had removed me.

I have found the best witness for sharing is not sharing at all, but just living what you believe. I get asked all the time what church I attend, because they tell me "I'm different" and they can't "peg me".

I always pray for Him to open whatever door (to their hearts) He wants open and to close whatever door He wants shut, in whatever situation I find myself in.

It removes the responsibility from me by entering into His rest on this (as to when to share and with who, if they approach me with the above questions), opening things up for discussion in a way they don't feel "trapped".

Just study and rest in Him in this; it's every man in his own season and the seasons belong unto the LORD. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Nathan

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2010, 08:58:49 PM »
My option of quitting church really wasn't an option.  I'm the head pastor of one.  But the question for me was, do I continue pursuing this?  Or should I just walk away and not shake things up.  I really appreciate what Paul has shared here.  He was short but very clear and very true with what he stated.  Family relationships are really priority, above ministry and even doctrines.  

Jesus didn't come to establish one doctrine over another, he came to redeem and reestablish the relationship between man and God.  This is all about relationship.  Unfortunately, religion has no place for people who are being called outside of the box.  And it creates great turmoil because of examples exactly like the one you're sharing.

For me, I think this is something you want to consider early on before you go any further.  This is where that passage "count the cost" comes into play.  I would dig that passage up and do some soul-searching with that principle.  You're at a crossroads in your life right here and now.  The question is, are you called to be a warrior?  Or a planter?  There is a passage in Scripture that speaks to the fact that the day will come when God will bring his judgment to us . .which is not a destructive thing, but it's a renovative thing . . .when he brings his judgment, we will beat our weapons into plowshares.  

I believe his judgment has come to you.  And he's found you redeemed by his son.  And now, you have the choice to continue walking with the word in you as a weapon, or as a plowshare.  You can either fight them, or you can plant truth in them when their soil is receptive for the seed birthing from you.

I'll give you a hint, it's a whole lot easier being a planter and letting the gift of life take it's own course in them, rather than be a warrior and live life on the defense all the time.

I counted the cost, and for me, the cost was a third of my church left.  My Dad rejected my message and ministry as well.  On the other hand, two thirds of the church stayed and my Mom became a council member for a term.  The miracle is that they still live together through all of this.  I have come to the edge of remaining in the church due to heat coming down from the denominational authorities above me, but every time they intended to rope me back into their establishment, God would protect and provide me with the strength to pull through.

I beleive that same power is being offered to you right now as well.  I would say, go to church for your wife and kids, and the friends you have there.  and WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT ask questions here and there to cause others to think about what it is they're actually embracing.  If the door is cold and dark, back out and give it more time.  

But the truth is, light is coming to every nook and cranny and church as we've known it all these years is going to implode eventually.  They just don't know it . . . .yet.

Offline CHB

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2010, 11:50:44 PM »
 But the truth is, light is coming to every nook and cranny and church as we've known it all these years is going to implode eventually.  They just don't know it . . . .yet.


How long, oh Lord? How long?  I pray that that day is very soon. There are so many people under bondage to these Churches.

CHB

Offline Nathan

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 12:15:57 AM »
And that is the heart of the body in a nutshell bro.  the more God reveals the nature of Christ to us, the more we long and pray that others will also come into the true freedom of fulfilling the original plan God had for man from the beginning of time, for us to live in him and He in us as one body.

There are people in my church right now that are beginning to pray that prayer you just posted almost verbatim.  God is giving us his heart, and that is to bring what is already finished in his kingdom to manifest in this one as we all come into the sonship of the Father.

This new approach to receiving and planting truth rather than manipulating and enforcing it, brings with it a completely new way of thinking all together.  It lightens the heart and brightens the mind.  The closer we allow him to draw us in, the less room there is for depression, darkness, doom and gloom.  The day actually "has" come.  He's in us.  As we plant his truth in others, he comes to them just as he comes to us.  The only difference is, the veil.  But it's as Jesus stated ...

"Upon this ROCK (the experience of God revealing the nature of his Son to us) I will build my church and the GATES (authority) of HELL (destructive mind) can not prevail against it.

It's not about what the traditional church thinks, it's about what's already been proclaimed.  All we're to do is call out what we see already done in the spirit to be completed in the flesh.

Offline Dallas

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 01:27:43 AM »
Quote
For me, I think this is something you want to consider early on before you go any further.  This is where that passage "count the cost" comes into play.  I would dig that passage up and do some soul-searching with that principle.  You're at a crossroads in your life right here and now.  The question is, are you called to be a warrior?  Or a planter?  There is a passage in Scripture that speaks to the fact that the day will come when God will bring his judgment to us . .which is not a destructive thing, but it's a renovative thing . . .when he brings his judgment, we will beat our weapons into plowshares.  

I believe his judgment has come to you.  And he's found you redeemed by his son.  And now, you have the choice to continue walking with the word in you as a weapon, or as a plowshare.  You can either fight them, or you can plant truth in them when their soil is receptive for the seed birthing from you.

I'll give you a hint, it's a whole lot easier being a planter and letting the gift of life take it's own course in them, rather than be a warrior and live life on the defense all the time.

GKY, I have heard this over and over again, and it is the same whether you are a believer in hell or not. But I do not recommend doing any of that. It's simple religous dogma, your real life will tell you what needs to happen. I have given my advice on it but I still feel compelled to call this out...because we aren't talking theology here but we are talking about you, a real person with real relationships.

Dallas


Quote
I beleive that same power is being offered to you right now as well.  I would say, go to church for your wife and kids, and the friends you have there.  and WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT ask questions here and there to cause others to think about what it is they're actually embracing.  If the door is cold and dark, back out and give it more time.

There is no power being offered to you, be mindful of your family and thier needs, that's what is important, let God work on the people. This is the kind of advice that causes families to break up. Instead be confident that God has given you this life and not so that it will be taken from you, He is with you, focus on what you know to be right and forget about religous dogma.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 01:33:47 AM by Dallas »

Offline willieH

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 02:27:29 AM »
willieH: Hi Gky... :hithere:

Some very good answers here... especially from Bro Nathan who IS a Pastor...

I believe that oftentimes, ...being quiet makes the loudest noise... for GOD says BE STILL and KNOW that I am GOD...

Maybe the quiet road is the best one to walk for the moment... and in that quietness, continue your quest to KNOW Him...  :friendstu:  Leaving the hope of INCREASE (of your wife and fam) in His capable hands...

...willieH  :cloud9:

Offline Dallas

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 03:11:47 AM »
Quote
especially from Bro Nathan who IS a Pastor

Ya, because we all know pastors are perfect and better people....

Quote
Ted Arthur Haggard (born June 27, 1956) is a former American evangelical preacher. Known as Pastor Ted to the congregations he served, he is the founder and former pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado; a founder of the Association of Life-Giving Churches; and was leader of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) from 2003 until November 2006.

In November 2006, prostitute and masseur Mike Jones alleged that Haggard had paid Jones to engage in sex with him for three years and had also purchased and used crystal methamphetamine.[1] A few days later Haggard resigned from all of his leadership positions after he admitted sexual immorality and methamphetamine use.

Ted Haggard, Now Former Pastor of the 14,000 member evangelical church....
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 03:16:11 AM by Dallas »

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 03:35:09 AM »
Quote
especially from Bro Nathan who IS a Pastor

Ya, because we all know pastors are perfect and better people....

Quote
Ted Arthur Haggard (born June 27, 1956) is a former American evangelical preacher. Known as Pastor Ted to the congregations he served, he is the founder and former pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado; a founder of the Association of Life-Giving Churches; and was leader of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) from 2003 until November 2006.

In November 2006, prostitute and masseur Mike Jones alleged that Haggard had paid Jones to engage in sex with him for three years and had also purchased and used crystal methamphetamine.[1] A few days later Haggard resigned from all of his leadership positions after he admitted sexual immorality and methamphetamine use.

Ted Haggard, Now Former Pastor of the 14,000 member evangelical church....


Ephesians 5:12
for the things which are done by these people in secret it is disgraceful even to speak of.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 05:53:58 AM »
Something the Lord once spoke to me was that I am just a witness, He is the facilitator. I bear witness(plant seed) by the Spirit. I can water it with prayer. Only He gives increase.

Jas 5:7  Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

It is interesting in this context. Husbandman.



The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 05:58:51 AM »





Song of Songs:
Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2010, 05:59:55 AM »
I got separated from the religious environment I had been raised in soon after Jesus manifested Himself to me.  Though my dad, his brothers and my grandpa were pastors, only a couple of days passed and, having decided I must read the Bible, which I'd never done, I discovered Jesus (in Mt 6) promised to bless us if we prayed, fasted or gave.  I knew Jesus keeps His promises so here was something I could do.  My idea had been something like at The Pool of Bethesda.  Whatever, whenever God moved was not mine to affect.  Fasting also was not something taught anywhere I'd heard of.

Then I thought I should be able to quote the Bible for whatever I explained to people concerning the Lord.  Whatever doctrine is in the Bible can be stated with the actual words of Scripture or it is NOT in the Bible. Simple . If the words for a doctrine are not Bible words, you have another authority than the Bible. Whoever you get those other words from is your authority, not God!  Look up the key words or phrases in a concordance. If they aren't there, then you shouldn't believe them.  I didn't clearly understand this for years yet.  In the beginning I had voluntarily decided to not read anything but the Bible, which I did for 4 1/2 years.  I couldn't yet trust the idea that I couldn't find something.  "No evidence" is a thing hard to believe in.

I just wanted to know where it said we were going to disappear before the Great Tribulation.  (Now I would ask for Scripture that says the racially gentile believers would suddenly disappear.)  Well, as that "near at hand" eschatology unraveled I discovered even questioning them, wanting their direct quote that said what they were saying, caused me to be rejected or they even called the police (something "authorities," specially in Institutional Christianity seem to like to do, pushing their destruction of me as far as they think they can get away with, which makes me believe they would've had me burned at the stake in earlier times.)

Though I had even stayed up all night arguing against the salvation of all a friend was trying to convince me of, it was almost 10 years later when I studied "The Eons of the Bible" or a similarly titled booklet by Gelesnov and believed for the first time, "Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers." (1 Tim 4:9-10, CLT)  I looked at my watch.  It was 3 am, July 18th, 1981.   I noted the time because I knew I had no more hope of acceptance by what is popularly considered "the mainstream" or "orthodox" Church.

I was less than five years old when I understood the difference between "finite" and "infinite" from a sermon my dad preached.  When I was going to sleep that night I thought, "How can a finite man deserve an infinite reward?"  It didn't make any sense to me; but, they taught that if your sins weren't forgiven you'd have to pay what you owed, you'd deserve ceaseless torture for ever.  Even though that infinity was a contradition to being finite, I remember turning over and thinking, "I guess it's just something you have to believe" before I went to sleep.  I don't see any way out of it yet today.  Yet for years, because that was what I was taught and the people around me believed it, I believed in a hell of screaming torture for ever for most people.  But, if anyone can think about it for a little while, I don't see how they can think it makes any sense.  We humans can't ever do enough evil to deserve that.  It would make God unjust.  I've known God and His gifts when believing in eternal torture, so I must grant that to others; but, if you've been born again and, even more so, if you've been filled with the Holy Spirit, I don't believe you can say that the experience of Jesus that the Holy Spirit has given you is that He is a Master Torturer, torturing countless victims without cease and no hope of escape all the while telling them, "I love you."  I don't believe you can in good conscience expect God to make you into that image, that kind of being either.

Several major changes were yet to come.  I discovered that the one thing Paul was pressing forward into attaining was the transformation of the physical body into an immortal incorruptible body.  I had never quite integrated my resurrection into the goal of my walk with the Lord.  I am to expect I can actually arrive at physical immortality as an outcome of my developing relationship with God.  Much could be written of this that I only mention.  Friends spurned me because of this also.

Then about 15 years ago, what I consider to be perhaps the most important change to my understanding happened, most of it in a very short time.  I was shown some things about Eclessia, God's bride, and the kingdom of God, which is just God.  Unlike other kingdoms, there are no mediators (except Jesus.)  It always functions by direct intimacy with the Ruler Who is also the Realm.  The Church (Eclessia) is not leaving.  It is the center of God purposes: the bride for Him to be intimately known and the house for His rest.  God's people are not determined racially.  God proves who His "chosen people" are by giving them the gift of the Holy Spirit.  The Church (Eclessia) is going to manifest in power rather than disappear.  The Church (Eclessia) will take over, ruling with Christ rather than th devil taking over which will never happen and is not only not in the Bible, but is a belief resulting from a carnal mind's Satanic deception.

Being only an enabling audience for a professional with titles of honor from other men is not being the Church of the living God.  That is the tradition of other mediators usurping the place of Jesus.  How long since you gathered with other members of the body of Christ without human headship (honoring the presence of Christ Jesus the Lord and only head of His own body) in order to honor the working of the Holy Spirit in every member?  Most places calling themselves "the Church" don't even allow the Church to freely minister one to another as commanded by our Lord.   There is something other than you or me or other individual believers and other than  God.  That is her, God's girlfriend, the bride.  I went to church, but the Church wasn't even on the program.   How many have ever even experienced the corporate body of Christ, His bride?

I was and am slandered and lied about by people who've never bothered to even meet me.  Over the years I have lost friends, family, churches, jobs, homes, belongings, reputation for the Lord Jesus.  Paul said he counted it all dung by comparison, "...that I may win Christ."  When I asked the Lord what I should think about the lies by some around here that don't know me at all He immediately answered me, "That's how they know Me."  I've been attacked and several times I've been shot at.  A couple years ago a preacher at a Church near here called the police on me though I did nothing out of line.  I only spoke to him after the "service," telling him what the English actually said, and also what the Greek said about a passage in the New Testament he'd used to say something the Bible nowhere says.

Early on, for years, my manner of life agreed with Origen's advice to not share Universalism with the world or beginning Christians.  I sought to get along with other Christians and tried to not "rock the boat."  At 61 I now believe that to be really stupid and I very much regret my lack of love for God.  I was intimidated by their carnal antagonisms and covered my lack of courage with "As much as lieth within you, be at peace with all men."  We still should have our, "feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace."  But I've grown more concerned that my life would make a difference to the rest of mankind, all of them, because I was here and spoke out for the Truth.  This means I can also expect God to show up and show off, which He likes to do.  We are to be, "...speaking the truth in love, [so we] may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ" (Ephesians 4:15, AV)

God's people were in serious trouble with Him because of  "the mixed multitude."  Though many Egyptians came out with the Israelites Egypt didn't come out of their hearts.  You're better off with the little "two or more in His name" than a crowd of abortions and centaurs, half man and half beast.  If you want your life to count for something, ya' gotta' ROCK THE BOAT!!!  God will reward you if you are crazy in love with Him and tell everybody you can about the truth as it is in Jesus!  Judgment eonian is only basic baby talk. (cf., Hebrews 6:1-6)  The reason almost none of these E.T. evangelicals can get beyond a certain notch and are stuck in immaturity is they do not have the foundation.  God is not the Eternal Torturer!  Speak the truth in love.  You'll be surprised at who He gives you.  If nobody else, you'll fellowship with angels!!! I promise!!!  God's got a time when the lid is going to blow off this thing and we may live to see it!  Take that as sure prophetic word.  He will build His Church.

"Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead." (Philippians 3:8-11, AV)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 06:25:56 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2010, 06:27:26 AM »


Revelation 3:12;
The one who is conquering, him will I be making a pillar in the temple of My God, and he may be coming out nevermore, and I will be writing on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which is descending out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2010, 06:46:25 AM »
"Blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape."

peacemaker

Offline willieH

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2010, 07:37:47 AM »
Quote
especially from Bro Nathan who IS a Pastor

Ya, because we all know pastors are perfect and better people....

:omg: Now what was the point/motive for saying this, Dallas?  :mshock: 

That you (unfortunately) noted a man (Ted Haggard) which once had pastoral duties, and flubbed it in misbehavior, is not an UNCOMMON thing... Anyone is capable of stumbling when their motives are amiss...   :dontknow:

That Bro Nathan IS a pastor, is evident in his wisdoms as well as the brotherly love and  friendship he often shares with many here at TM...  :grouppray:  Something of which, Gky is probably unawares...   :JCThink:

That Nathan IS a pastor does not imply him to be perfect OR better than anyone else...  nor did I allude to any such "perfections"... :mnah:

He is simply a nice guy, as well as having OBVIOUS leadership skills and IMO, ...OFTEN displays them, as he has nicely exampled in this discussion...

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

Mr.Irrelevant

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2010, 04:43:25 PM »
Hi gky,

The good news is that it gets easier with time.  I came to this glorious truth almost 3 years ago now, in my final year of seminary.  My wife was furious for a time, and hurt at the rejection SHE got when I "became a heretic."  Many of our friends abandoned us, and we were kicked out of our church.  It's not fair at all that she should be mistreated for MY "sin", but that's what happened.  Be gentle and long-suffering with your wife as I'm sure she's confused as to why God would allow this.

After our initial discussion (which didn't go well) I didn't bring it up again, but she sure did - often and usually in anger.  Over time I simply answered her questions, admitting that sometimes I didn't know the answer but would do the research to find out. As her anger cooled she began to really hear what I was saying, and while she's still not 100% on board she does see my point.  Her only hang up now is if UR is true than why does 95% of Christianity see it differently?

As far as going to church - yes we do.  After being kicked out of our first church we started attending a large nondenominational church which gave us a place to hide and lick our wounds.  It is tough for me as I don't feel welcome there - nothing has ever been said it's just that I can never be a member or use my gifts - but my wife and son are able to fit in well and that's important.  Honestly the subject of hell almost never comes up anyway.  The Bible tells us not to forsake meeting together, so don't let the "cognitive dissonance" cause your family more pain.

I have never had a discussion about it with our new pastor.  I have considered it several times but my wife has begged me not to - I think she's afraid of being kicked out of another church, and I can't blame her.

I think the key is speaking the truth in love.  Don't compromise what you believe, but at the same time let your family know that you will love them no matter where they are on the subject.  It's possible that your family will never agree with you - but your point of view will make a much bigger impact if they can see Christ in life as you present it.

Offline Molly

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2010, 04:59:02 PM »
Quote from: Nathan
God is giving us his heart, and that is to bring what is already finished in his kingdom to manifest in this one as we all come into the sonship of the Father.

I see this in the young people today, who just love truth no matter how harsh or difficult, they crave truth and are not afraid to speak it.  I doubt that many of them even think very much about God or Jesus, but they love truth, and work tirelessly pursuing it,  so they love him without even knowing it.  Would God work in this way?  Yes, I think he would.  He is always a surprise!


Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:



Syndicated

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2010, 07:17:46 PM »
As with other posters, I too have felt the rejection from family.  It hasn't a bed of roses.... or maybe it has because of the blessings I have seen come, but there's a heck of a lot of thorns in this bed!

I have one sister who won't talk to me anymore, and my other sister does nothing but chastize me and tell me how blinded I am, and that I'm 'playing with fire' when we do talk because I don't believe what she believes anymore.  I think it's bound to happen no matter what you tell them... no different than a man going to his strict Christian father and telling him that he's gay.  There's anger, confusion, rejection... all that stuff.  In the end, people need the time to cool down, step back and realize that it doesn't change who you are completely.  Of course there will be some noticable changes in things you do, but those changes will most likely make others step back and ask questions about it.  If you go to them and start 'preaching' at them, they're going to feel attacked and that's not going to help anything.

All we can do in a situation as this is be patient and let God have His timing on opening their eyes, not our timing.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2010, 04:10:43 AM »
...while she's still not 100% on board she does see my point.  Her only hang up now is if UR is true than why does 95% of Christianity see it differently?
According to CARM (Christian Apologetics Resource Ministry,) one of the web's foremost apologetic sites, about 50% of Christians and 70% of professional Christian ministers do not believe in an endless hell.  CARM is lamenting the fact and saying it from the position of believing "Jesus is the savior of all" to be a deception.  There is writing on the www.tentmaker.org page called, "An Unique Proof for (Biblical) Universalism," here: http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html which points out that one can talk about anything, from Satanism to Lesbianism, at CARM, the only exception being UR.  The section on the forum for "Rebutals to CARM" is here: http//:tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?board=106.0 and, in case you haven't visited "The Scholar's Corner" I encourage you and/or your wife to do so http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html  There are many resources here at tentmaker.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 04:37:50 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Nathan

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2010, 11:50:37 PM »
As you read through all of these replies, I think it's safe to say, you're not alone in this.  We are all at different levels of reception of those around us.  I'm thrilled to say my wife was able to see it as I was.  There was a period of time where we purposefully did not blurt out everything we saw that was doctrinally changing because we were unsure of the clarity of it all ourselves at that time.  But as most here have shared and I agree, laying low is not a bad thing when the emotions surrounding it are already elevated.

The ice has been broken in that you've breached the subject.  The seed is planted.  Pay no attention to natural time now as this is a spiritual seed.  Let God bring her around at her own pace.  Just be ready to take on the role of a mid-wife when the time comes for this to birth in your wife as well.  Her time will come.  Just continue to grow in where God has you and let these things digest and take root in you as you wait for her to come around.  

This reminds me of the passage where the angel had told Cornelius that not only he, but his whole house would be saved . . . I believe when one person accepts Christ, the true, not someone's image of him . . .when Christ comes into one, he comes into the whole house.  It may take some a little more time to rearrange some of their thinking for that to happen, but the freedom of truth affects the whole house of every one of us.  Hang on to that and know that your house is no different.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 11:54:09 PM by Nathan »

Offline sven

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Re: Please share: I'm UR but spouse remains ET. Effects on family?
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2010, 02:03:56 PM »
you should share it with your wife and your children, even if your wife does not agree, you should share it with your children, to save them from this evil believe.