Author Topic: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks  (Read 3431 times)

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HartleyDamboiseII

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I am really looking for Spiritual Education/Edification
  Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52  And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53  And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

lee100

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 05:52:19 PM »
lee,

That scripture has stumped me for the longest of time. I don't know. This scripture has been interpreted 10 different ways which I think is disrespectful to the word of God. If you don't know, don't try to humanize it with your flesh.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2009, 06:15:56 PM »
I am really looking for Spiritual Education/Edification
  Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52  And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53  And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.



This was the moment I realized a greater picture of the Love Jesus had for all mankind.   While I actually do not see myself as a saint, the rest fits very well to my walk within the flesh of following religion being spiritually dead.   That grave was indeed opened for me and I was released.


Offline Redlettervoice

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 06:37:56 PM »


Ask yourself: What "is" the grave?

Ask yourself: What "is" the veil?


HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2009, 07:03:24 PM »
Thank you ALL

lee100

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2009, 07:28:18 PM »
paul,

  I don't follow you here.  First, you do not see yourself as a saint? Second, the veil being torn from top to bottom represents sin no longer separating man from God...that I do know. How about the the bodies of saints coming out of their graves to go out to Jerusalem to talk to people? I think that is the scripture hard to interpret. Who are these saints and why did they come out of their graves after Jesus' resurrection to appear to many in Jerusalem? What was their message to the people they appeared to? That is the question.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 07:36:39 PM by lee100 »

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2009, 07:46:54 PM »
paul,

  I don't follow you here.  First, you do not see yourself as a saint? Second, the veil being torn from top to bottom represents sin no longer separating man from God...that I do know. How about the the bodies of saints coming out of their graves to go out in Jerusalem to talk to people? I think that is the scripture hard to interpret. Who are these saints and why did they come out of their graves after Jesus' resurrection to appear to many in Jerusalem? What was their message to the people they appeared to? That is the question.

Lee D,

If I am a saint, it is Gods call, it is not my place to present myself as that to anyone else, I will share what I believe and God can take care of what people are to perceive.

One thing I have said that I believe is similar to what you described only in a different way is I was spiritually dead which indeed is a separation from God.  I was given  belief beyond religion. Religion will teach that this belief is something you have to figure out, that is the blind leading the blind.  True belief in Christ is "not of ourselves" what I believe is the love that Jesus has for all mankind so that I am no longer spiritually dead.

God may have used me and may continue to use me to appear to many.   The interpretation is difficult if not impossible from a context that when you die on this earth you either go to heaven or hell because that is not the truth from scripture.

This passage transcends our life here on earth and is about Gods timing for when we are no longer spiritually dead.  The context that we have to come to believe in Christ in this life makes the verse spiritually impossible to discern.




HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2009, 08:01:39 PM »
Paul the comment that you spoke in above was lee100 and not me Lee Damboise II

But thanks for the info on my thread

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2009, 08:03:26 PM »
Paul the comment that you spoke in above was lee100 and not me Lee Damboise II

But thanks for the info on my thread


My mistake there.

lee100

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2009, 08:16:10 PM »
paul,

That was my post, not lee D. Paul frequently uses the word "saints" to describe believers in Christ in his epistles. If you are genuinely born again.. you are a saint. rather if you feel like one or not. I respect your opinion of these scriptures, I just don't agree with your interpretation. I also disagree about when someone dies where they go. The bible is very clear. ( Hebrews 9:27) It is appointed for man once to die..then comes judgment. Another words, as soon as your heart quits beating you will be plunged into judgment to see if you have Christ's righteousness or your own self-righteous dirty rags. The ones who have Christ's righteousness are ushered to heaven to be with Lord, the ones standing in their own self righteousness will be ushered to Hades until the final judgment..( 2 Peter 2:9; Rev 20:11-15).

I believe that when a person is born twice..they die once. I believe when a person is born once.. they die twice.

Gilbert

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2009, 08:20:00 PM »
I am really looking for Spiritual Education/Edification
  Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52  And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53  And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.



This was the moment I realized a greater picture of the Love Jesus had for all mankind.   While I actually do not see myself as a saint, the rest fits very well to my walk within the flesh of following religion being spiritually dead.   That grave was indeed opened for me and I was released.



I should say at the beginning here that I haven't yet been able to figure out who is Posting what here and so I can never be quite sure who it is that I am responding to.

Anyways, I was struck by the words above saying: "That grave was indeed opened for me and I was released".
You know what I find so astonishing in here lately?
It's how people are admitting things and/or stating ideas which are exceedingly enlightened; even though they might stumble a bit trying to explain it in a cohesive manner.

Take this statement for instance: "That grave was indeed opened for me and I was released".
This is mentioned in Hebrews 6:1&2 where it says: "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."

The doctrine of "resurrection of the dead" is one of the most important pillars of our Christian experience.

Ephesians 2:1 says that we were dead through our trespasses and sins. This does not mean that our inner-man did not exist before; only that it was alienated from real life with his Creator because it was not functioning after His laws.
The death of the outward man means the separation of the inner man from the body. A dead body does not remain unchanged. It is subjected to destructive influences of decomposition and decay.
In a similar way, a person who is inwardly dead is subject to the destructive forces of hate, jealousy, lies, uncleanness, depression, etc.
While the inwardly "alive" person lives after the law of Life in Christ Jesus which manifests itself in joy, peace, and strength in the inner man, the inwardly dead person functions after the law of sin and death.

Many Christians think that a believer goes to heaven only after he dies. If so, how can his ways and citizenship be in heaven? How is a Christian able to fight and conquer in the heavenlies if he is not already present there?
It says: 'And raised us up with him, and made us sit with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus' (Eph 2:6). This is implicitly uses past tense verbs. He who is in Christ, that is, he who belongs to His spiritual body of which He is the Head, is resurrected from the dead and now dwells in heaven, in the Kingdom of God, which is the good part of the Kingdom of heaven.

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2009, 08:22:48 PM »
Lee100 I have to really ask you this because I found this statement used very often when I was visiting a Baptist Church in Bath Maine for a year or two.

In your last statement you used the phrase "genuinely Born Again"

What does this mean, or what is not being genuinely Born Again

Lee Damboise II

lee100

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2009, 08:36:55 PM »
lee,

There is saving faith and there is head knowledge faith. There are people claiming to be Christians who have head knowledge  only of Jesus, but have not believed on Him with their hearts. The Lord knows who are His and who are the pretenders.( Matthew 7:21-23) Also, the allegories Jesus preached....the Sower..Wheat and Tares..Good fish and Evil fish..there are true genuine born again believers and religious believers with head knowledge who give God lip service who are planted in the church by the devil.( Matthew 13:39)( Matthew 15:8 ; Isaiah 29:13)  Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 08:40:37 PM by lee100 »

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2009, 08:40:50 PM »
Thank you lee100

lee100

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2009, 08:51:10 PM »
no problem lee damboise

Offline Molly

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2009, 09:05:31 PM »
I am really looking for Spiritual Education/Edification
  Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52  And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53  And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.



This was the moment I realized a greater picture of the Love Jesus had for all mankind.   While I actually do not see myself as a saint, the rest fits very well to my walk within the flesh of following religion being spiritually dead.   That grave was indeed opened for me and I was released.



I should say at the beginning here that I haven't yet been able to figure out who is Posting what here and so I can never be quite sure who it is that I am responding to.

Anyways, I was struck by the words above saying: "That grave was indeed opened for me and I was released".
You know what I find so astonishing in here lately?
It's how people are admitting things and/or stating ideas which are exceedingly enlightened; even though they might stumble a bit trying to explain it in a cohesive manner.

Take this statement for instance: "That grave was indeed opened for me and I was released".
This is mentioned in Hebrews 6:1&2 where it says: "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."

The doctrine of "resurrection of the dead" is one of the most important pillars of our Christian experience.

Ephesians 2:1 says that we were dead through our trespasses and sins. This does not mean that our inner-man did not exist before; only that it was alienated from real life with his Creator because it was not functioning after His laws.
The death of the outward man means the separation of the inner man from the body. A dead body does not remain unchanged. It is subjected to destructive influences of decomposition and decay.
In a similar way, a person who is inwardly dead is subject to the destructive forces of hate, jealousy, lies, uncleanness, depression, etc.
While the inwardly "alive" person lives after the law of Life in Christ Jesus which manifests itself in joy, peace, and strength in the inner man, the inwardly dead person functions after the law of sin and death.

Many Christians think that a believer goes to heaven only after he dies. If so, how can his ways and citizenship be in heaven? How is a Christian able to fight and conquer in the heavenlies if he is not already present there?
It says: 'And raised us up with him, and made us sit with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus' (Eph 2:6). This is implicitly uses past tense verbs. He who is in Christ, that is, he who belongs to His spiritual body of which He is the Head, is resurrected from the dead and now dwells in heaven, in the Kingdom of God, which is the good part of the Kingdom of heaven.

Good post, Gilbert.  Now is the time of our redemption.

Romans 13:11
And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2009, 09:08:04 PM »
paul,

That was my post, not lee D. Paul frequently uses the word "saints" to describe believers in Christ in his epistles. If you are genuinely born again.. you are a saint. rather if you feel like one or not. I respect your opinion of these scriptures, I just don't agree with your interpretation. I also disagree about when someone dies where they go. The bible is very clear. ( Hebrews 9:27) It is appointed for man once to die..then comes judgment. Another words, as soon as your heart quits beating you will be plunged into judgment to see if you have Christ's righteousness or your own self-righteous dirty rags. The ones who have Christ's righteousness are ushered to heaven to be with Lord, the ones standing in their own self righteousness will be ushered to Hades until the final judgment..( 2 Peter 2:9; Rev 20:11-15).

I believe that when a person is born twice..they die once. I believe when a person is born once.. they die twice.


It is quite alright that you disagree, you said you were stumped by the passage, the passage is not confusing or a mystery to me when I believe that there is not one who will remain separated from God for all eternity.  

The spiritual description is exactly what has happened to me and it will be what will happen to everyone.  


The carnal view of the grave is that we are not in a spiritual grave in this life, but that is very very far from the truth.   Our physical shell, alive or dead,  is irrelevant to our spiritual grave.


lee100

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2009, 09:25:23 PM »
paul,

Again, I respect your view. I just don't believe the text teaches everything you have said. I do believe that there will be people who are separated from God for all eternity not because of what I think or feel.. my vote does not count or yours.. because God's word says so (2 Thessalonians 1:9) This is not up for us to vote on.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 09:31:32 PM by lee100 »

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2009, 09:41:47 PM »
paul,

Again, I respect your view. I just don't believe the text teaches everything you have said. I do believe that there will be people who are separated from God for all eternity not because of what I think or feel.. my vote does not count or yours.. because God's word says so (2 Thessalonians 1:9) This is not up for us to vote on.


Yes Gods word says so

1Ti 2:4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.


Your disagreement does not change that your still stumped over the passage,  not that you have to agree with me,  as long as you remain in a belief that the character of God will allow even one to be damned for all eternity then that passage will never make any sense that is not the result of an acceptance of flawed logic that tries.


Offline Cardinal

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2009, 09:45:32 PM »
Many Christians think that a believer goes to heaven only after he dies. If so, how can his ways and citizenship be in heaven? How is a Christian able to fight and conquer in the heavenlies if he is not already present there?
It says: 'And raised us up with him, and made us sit with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus' (Eph 2:6). This is implicitly uses past tense verbs. He who is in Christ, that is, he who belongs to His spiritual body of which He is the Head, is resurrected from the dead and now dwells in heaven, in the Kingdom of God, which is the good part of the Kingdom of heaven.

 :cloud9: Amen Gilbert, good post. Imagine my surprise one night when the Lord spoke to me to leave the church I helped start and I obeyed and did, by saying, "You're in heaven." complete with the anointing falling.

It was then given me to understand that walking in the proceeding word of life that comes from the Father's mouth, IS walking in the Spirit, which IS heaven/the firmament. We truly don't live, or have HIS life, by eating bread (letter) alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Being baptized in it, and WALKING in it, are two different things. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2009, 09:48:58 PM »
Sorry People I just had to cut and paste


HAVE A PATTERN OF SOUND WORDS
Paul wrote to Timothy  in his Last letter:
   Have a pattern of sound words, which you hear from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus
 ( 2 Tim 1: 13 ).
   Immediately, the question is asked:
"What does it mean to ' Have a pattern of sound words' ?"  By way of explanation, let us bear in mind the fact that thought is expressed in words, and if those words do not express the exact thought of the speaker or writer his exact thought  is not expressed.  Hence, we see the basic importance of having a "form", "stencil" ,or
"pattern"  of  sound words expressing the exact thoughts contain in the original languages in which the Scriptures were written, if we are to get the exact thoughts which God revealed.
   In the second place, it will be well to remember that God did not speak or have the Scriptures written in English. Our Bible is only a translation into English of what God inspired holy men to write in the Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek languages.  Therefore, it becomes evident to all, that, unless we  have "a pattern of sound words" in our English Bible, expressing exactly and precisely what God said in the original languages of inspiration, we will not have God's thoughts.  We will merely have man's opinionated version of God's Word.
Adlai Loudy , How to Scripturally Study  Scriptures. (1925 A.D. )
   
 Lee Damboise II

lee100

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2009, 09:56:13 PM »
Paul,

We both can't be right. One of us is mis-interpreting the text. Look at 2 Thessalonians 1:9 and tell me that the people who reject Jesus  there ruin is temporary. The text says Eternal. The very definition of eternal is: ageless: continuing forever or indefinitely;.

Now, I believe that 1Tim 2:4 is supported by Revelation 7:9. Not every person from every nation. which one of us is biblically correct?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 10:01:02 PM by lee100 »

Offline Molly

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2009, 09:56:47 PM »
Many Christians think that a believer goes to heaven only after he dies. If so, how can his ways and citizenship be in heaven? How is a Christian able to fight and conquer in the heavenlies if he is not already present there?
It says: 'And raised us up with him, and made us sit with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus' (Eph 2:6). This is implicitly uses past tense verbs. He who is in Christ, that is, he who belongs to His spiritual body of which He is the Head, is resurrected from the dead and now dwells in heaven, in the Kingdom of God, which is the good part of the Kingdom of heaven.

 :cloud9: Amen Gilbert, good post. Imagine my surprise one night when the Lord spoke to me to leave the church I helped start and I obeyed and did, by saying, "You're in heaven." complete with the anointing falling.

It was then given me to understand that walking in the proceeding word of life that comes from the Father's mouth, IS walking in the Spirit, which IS heaven/the firmament. We truly don't live, or have HIS life, by eating bread (letter) alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Being baptized in it, and WALKING in it, are two different things. Blessings...
Hi Cardinal,

Does God have a mouth?  What is the mouth of God?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2009, 10:00:33 PM »
 :cloud9: That concept is truer than even your article brings out. The Jews were particularly protective of the Torah (first 5 books) and had different security things they would do in transcribing of it to new copies, so that if they missed one jot of tittle they knew it by the end of the line or the page.

Their attention to detail was based on the view that was handed down to them, that the letters themselves which had meanings, also were specific sounds given them by God, and that these sounds themselves were like "keys" of creation when spoken in the proper sequences.

Sort of like in our futuristic movies where a specific sound bite on one person's voice signature is all that will open a door.

I have heard it said that if you put sand on a cymbal and tap it (sound waves), it will go into geometric shapes, just snowflakes form in geometric shapes. Now think about the scripture that says the steps of the righteous are ORDERED by the Lord. They are ordered by what He has spoken and will speak, once we have ears to hear. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Please Help me get the ture meaning of Matt. 27:50-53 ; Thanks
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2009, 10:30:08 PM »
Paul, We both can't be right.

I have shared what I believe, this is empty rhetoric since we could both be wrong.

Quote
One of us is mis-interpreting the text.

Or we both are.

Quote
Look at 2 Thessalonians 1:9 and tell me that the people who reject Jesus  there ruin is temporary. The text says Eternal. The very definition of eternal is: ageless: continuing forever or indefinitely;.

The very definition of eternal is indeed what you say, but that alone is irrelevant to Greek text words and in this case it is aionios.

You have accepted but one translated word from the greek text by also accepting the context and method in which that was derived.   

I accept a different context and definition.   The context being Gods character where ALL things are done out of his being LOVE and the lack of contradiction raised.   Love is not just a trait of God as some use that fallacy in their intepretation,  GOD IS LOVE and all things that are done are in that context.   Even God wrath inherantly is out of LOVE.  Because that's what God IS.

1 Timothy 2:4 contradicts the use of eternal in  2 thessalonians,  it does not contradict the perpetuity of time concerning it being an adjective of aion which the context of Gods chastisement (inherantly temporary) selects that appropriate use of the word here.

2Th 1:9 who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength


Quote
Now, I believe that 1Tim 2:4 is supported by Revelation 7:9. Not every person from every nation. which one of us is biblically correct?


Revelation 7:9 has no such statement within it concerning "not every person"  it says no one is able to number which has no implication either way all by itself.  There is no logical avenue to take that verse and decide that it means "not all".


So indeed, 1 Timothy 2:4 stating all mankind would be so many that they could not be numbered by anyone.