Author Topic: Pauls thorn or splinter  (Read 2904 times)

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Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Pauls thorn or splinter
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2010, 04:56:44 AM »


Funny how two people can come away with such different conclusions to the same book.
Yes, I have read Paul's writings, in fact, many times.
I always see the Victory of Christ. In Paul and his ministry.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Pauls thorn or splinter
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2010, 06:10:34 AM »

"losing the battle"  ?

   


Indeed, he (Paul) thought so... but you would already know this if you read his writings! :thumbsup:


Paul

Where might this be read of Paul losing? And "obsolete and of little importance"   ?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Dallas

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Re: Pauls thorn or splinter
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2010, 06:43:13 PM »
Quote
Read Paul's letters... many were written to refute the thorn in his side...    Paul was constantly having to defend his teachings to the Churches he started.  Why? Because the thorn was from Jerusalem and claimed more authority!

To be honest, in Paul's time... He was losing the battle... He even tells us so! 

This Thorn was serious business in Paul's eyes!  The thorn was making Paul obsolete and of little importance. I can show you from Paul's own words!

Paul

 :thumbsup:


Absolutley, the thorn was the persecution Paul recieved from preaching the message. Specifically from the Hebrew people in whom he was in direct conflict. They as a traitor to the Pharisees and a blasphemer and heritic Paul was physically hunted and persecuted. Ultimatley they won their battle in this world having Paul condemed to death...God using every opprotunity launched the goodnews however...but as Periac put so well, in Paul's eyes he was in constant pain from that thorn in his side....


Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Pauls thorn or splinter
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2010, 07:09:08 PM »



...and counted it all as JOY!

Offline Dallas

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Re: Pauls thorn or splinter
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2010, 07:12:41 PM »
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...and counted it all as JOY!

Bang on!!  :thumbsup:

Zeek

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Re: Pauls thorn or splinter
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2010, 06:46:20 AM »
Jesus had a crown of "thorns" stuck in his flesh by his enemies.   David cried out from relief from those who persecuted him. 

Psa 7:1  Shiggaion of David, which he sang unto the LORD, concerning the words of Cush the Benjamite. O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me:

Paul and gang was persecuted by those of the "flesh/Ishmaels". 

Mat 20:23  And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Offline Molly

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Re: Pauls thorn or splinter
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2010, 09:45:08 PM »
Letter written by Beethoven in his late 20's disclosing his increasing deafness and struggles with suicidal thoughts.  He would go on to compose for another 25 years, being completely deaf at the production of his 9th symphony.

...out of weakness were made strong,

--Heb 11




The Heiligenstadt Testament (translation)
For my brothers Carl and [Johann] Beethoven

Oh you men who think or say that I am malevolent, stubborn, or misanthropic, how greatly do you wrong me? You do not know the secret cause which makes me seem that way to you.

From childhood on, me heart and soul have been full of the tender feeling of goodwill, and I was ever inclined to accomplish great things. But, think that for six years now I have been hopelessly afflicted, made worse by senseless physicians, from year to year deceived with hopes of improvement, finally compelled to face the prospect of a lasting malady (whose cure will take years or, perhaps, be impossible). Though born with a fiery, active temperament, even susceptible to the diversions of society, I was soon compelled to withdraw myself, to live life alone. If at times I tried to forget all this, oh how harshly I was I flung back by the doubly sad experience of my bad hearing. Yet it was impossible for me to say to people, "Speak louder, shout, for I am deaf." Ah, how could I possibly admit an infirmity in the one sense which ought to be more perfect in me than others, a sense which I once possessed in the highest perfection, a perfection such as few in my profession enjoy or ever have enjoyed.--Oh I cannot do it; therefore forgive me when you see me draw back when I would have gladly mingled with you.
     My misfortune is doubly painful to me because I am bound to be misunderstood; for me there can be no relaxation with my fellow men, no refined conversations, no mutual exchange of ideas. I must live almost alone, like one who has been banished; I can mix with society only as much as true necessity demands. If I approach near to people a hot terror seizes upon me, and I fear being exposed to the danger that my condition might be noticed.

Thus it has been during the last six months which I have spent in the country. By ordering me to spare my hearing as much as possible, my intelligent doctor almost fell in with my own present frame of mind, though sometimes I ran counter to it by yielding to my desire for companionship. But what a humiliation for me when someone standing next to me heard a flute in the distance and I heard nothing, or someone heard a shepherd singing and again I heard nothing. Such incidents drove me almost to despair; a little more of that and I would have ended me life -- it was only my art that held me back. Ah, it seemed to me impossible to leave the world until I had brought forth all that I felt was within me. So I endured this wretched existence -- truly wretched for so susceptible a body, which can be thrown by a sudden change from the best condition to the very worst. -- Patience, they say, is what I must now choose for my guide, and I have done so -- I hope my determination will remain firm to endure until it pleases the inexorable Parcae to break the thread.

 Perhaps I shall get better, perhaps not; I am ready. -- Forced to become a philosopher already in my twenty-eighth year, oh it is not easy, and for the artist much more difficult than for anyone else. 'Divine one, thou seest me inmost soul thou knowest that therein dwells the love of mankind and the desire to do good'. Oh fellow men, when at some point you read this, consider then that you have done me an injustice; someone who has had misfortune man console himself to find a similar case to his, who despite all the limitations of Nature nevertheless did everything within his powers to become accepted among worthy artists and men. 'You, my brothers Carl and [Johann], as soon as I am dead, if Dr. Schmidt is still alive, ask him in my name to describe my malady, and attach this written documentation to his account of my illness so that so far as it possible at least the world may become reconciled to me after my death".
      At the same time, I declare you two to be the heirs to my small fortune (if so it can be called); divide it fairly; bear with and help each other. What injury you have done me you know was long ago forgiven. To you, brother Carl, I give special thanks for the attachment you have shown me of late. It is my wish that you may have a better and freer life than I have had. Recommend virtue to your children; it alone, not money, can make them happy. I speak from experience; this was what upheld me in time of misery. Thanks to it and to my art, I did not end my life by suicide -- Farewell and love each other -- I thank all my friends, particularly Prince Lichnowsky's and Professor Schmidt -- I would like the instruments from Prince L. to be preserved by one of you, but not to be the cause of strife between you, and as soon as they can serve you a better purpose, then sell them. How happy I shall be if can still be helpful to you in my grave -- so be it. -- With joy I hasten to meed death. -- If it comes before I have had the chance to develop all my artistic capacities, it will still be coming too soon despite my harsh fate, and I should probably wish it later -- yet even so I should be happy, for would it not free me from a state of endless suffering? -- Come when thou wilt, I shall meed thee bravely. -- Farewell and do not wholly forget me when I am dead; I deserve this from you, for during my lifetime I was thinking of you often and of ways to make you happy -- please be so --

Ludwig van Beethoven

Heiligenstadt,

October 6th, 1802

http://www.all-about-beethoven.com/heiligenstadt_test.html



Moonlight Sonata

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmYLRZkzc7M

Offline Nathan

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Re: Pauls thorn or splinter
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2010, 06:11:12 PM »
Did not Paul also call himself a wretched man because there was a continual battle going on inside of him causing him to do what he shouldn't and not do what he should?  And was not his ending remarks the same as the answer was about the removal of the thorn?  "Thanks be to God it is Christ Jesus!"  "My Grace is sufficient" . . "Count it all joy"

regardless what the thorn was, the message is about light and life.  Is that not what we should edify one another with?

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Pauls thorn or splinter
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2010, 04:25:39 AM »
Absolutely :Yesss:
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Offline micah7:9

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Re: Pauls thorn or splinter
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2010, 02:12:44 AM »
 :thumbsup: Glory!
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.