On the Bible and Punishment

[deances]

I do agree with you Molly (and others), that the information in the Bible stays the same (at least nowadays, when we have the advantage of millions of copies in print, so we can ascertain if and when someone makes a change to it).  But it is we who change.

A while back, I thought of "creating" my own Bible simply by taking the existing Bible and removing from it whatever I thought was either offensive or unnecessary. I stopped shortly after beginning, because I realized that I would be removing the vast majority of the book!  Not that I find the majority offensive (though there's quite a large chunk of the minority that I do find offensive), but also passages such as 1 Chronicles 8, 13-27: 

and Beriah ahd Shema, who were heads of fathers' households of the inhabitants of aijalon, who put to flight the inhabitants of Gath; and Ahio, Shashnak, and Jeremoth. Zebadiah, Arad, Eder. Michael, Ishpah, and Joha were the sons of Beriah. Zebadiah, Meshullam, Hizki, Heber, Ishmerai, Izliah and Jobab were the sons of Elpaal. Jakim, Zichri, Zabdi, Elienai, Zillethai, Eliel, Adaiah, Beraiah and Shimrath were the sons of Shimel, Ishpan, Eber, Elisel, Abdon, Zichri, Hanan, Hananiah, Elam, Anthothijah, Iphdeiah and Penuel were the sons of Shashak, Shamsheari, Shehariah, Athaliah.... and on it goes.

Certainly nothing offensive there, but why necessary?  Why is lineage so important?  Why is everything based on "sins of the father?"  Why does all of mankind "fall" because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit?  Why do Abraham's descendants all benefit because he was a good man and, conversely, why do an evil man's children and cattle have to suffer?

The Bible certainly does make one think. And maybe that's the whole point of it.  :-)

[Cardinal]

  Our ways are not His ways. His ways are much higher (in wisdom and understanding) than our ways. Additionally, we are bound by viewing things in the context of time, which He is not. He views the end from the beginning. Isolating one incident in the fabric of time, no more indicates the full character of God, than isolating one incident in the fabric of our lives, does.

What appears as evil to our finite minds, often is His mercy, because He knows the end from the beginning, and His judgments are unto victory.

And if you look up the names of people, places and things in the Word, and relate their names to what they did or what happened there, in the Hebrew, it will boost your faith as to Who wrote it over thousands of years. Just doing that opened my eyes, in the beginning. My  Blessings....

[deances]

Well, I'll say one thing: in the sense that I am always an advocate of too much information rather than too little, Kings, Chronicles, as well as other portions of the Bible, certain provide a chock full of information.

Though I think some of that is more like minutes to a meeting, or notes to a book, rather than what could have been woven into a readable story.

Also, to what extent is the entire Bible the inspired Word of God?  In other words, if you or I were to add or include a chapter today, I'm sure most people would not say: "this change was God-inspired." Where, then, is the cutoff?  At what point were changes to the Bible no longer widely-considered God-inspired?

[Beloved Servant]

God watches over His Word and man can not corrupt the Truth no matter how hard he tries.

Those who seek — find.
The question is — what is one really looking for?

[Cardinal]

  Amen 

[deances]

What is one really looking for?  Great question.

Looking for truth, and using my God-given brain to question that which does not make sense to me along the way.

[Beloved Servant]

Look for the INSPIRATION.

[jabcat]

Sorry, we're not going to continue questioning the general, overall authenticity of the scriptures.  And that's what I see here.  IMO, these aren't just questions about what the scriptures mean, but continually casting doubt on their inspiration and necessity, and that's a rabbit trail TM has decided to no longer go down.   Opportunity has been given to explore a few things, and I'm just troubled by the undertone that keeps cropping up.  As the TM scriptural expectations state, that can be done elsewhere if one is determined to do it, rather than believe what God has said and trust that He knows what he's doing.  Attempting to understand, and even "gentle" continuing statements that undermine it, are two different things.

rhm said "I still operate within an inspired mindset, but its something I've been mulling lately."  I encourage you to continue in the former...


I'm going to lock this for a bit, let folks re-think where this is headed, and we'll re-visit it in a little bit.

Once again I'll refer to the link in my signature re: TM's default position on the scriptures.  I suggest anyone who has a disagreement with this (at least temporary) decision, read it again carefully.

Thanks, James.

[jabcat]

"I'll gladly talk personally to you...about textual criticism and the dangers of going down the path of throwing out stuff in the bible that doesn't suit your personality, your lifestyle, or education or whatever. I know where that mentality leads and I don't think it's helpful or healthy. We purposely do not allow threads on this board on that discussion on the topic of textual criticism because I know the food fights that ensue. I really do understand those who feel they have a right and obligation to throw out the parts of the bible they do not like, I've read their posts, I've spend a lot of time dialoging with them, I've read many books supporting the idea of relegating parts of the O.T. to myths and superstitions but believe they are wrong because God has given me a lot of light on verses that used to choke me in the past that now make a lot of sense to me.

God has a plan, a blueprint. It's hidden in the Bible. For those who can read God's language of symbols, the blueprint makes perfect sense. A blueprint usually has many pages to it each page dealing with a different aspect of a house. One page may be plumbing, one electrical, one walls, one for the first floor, one for the second, one for the foundation. Each one has language and symbols for that page that a technician familiar with that trade can understand. Just because someone cannot understand the symbols and diagrams on a particular page (or a particular covenant) that deals with electricity doesn't give them the right to throw out that page. THAT is what is being proposed by many who post on some universalist discussion boards. Because they read carnally and are wise in their own eyes, they throw out pages of God's precious blueprint and encourage babes in Christ to do the same. This is WRONG. And that kind of teaching will not be tolerated here at Tentmaker because it is harmful."  -  Gary Amirault