Author Topic: new earth and new heaven...  (Read 2728 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

IceDash

  • Guest
new earth and new heaven...
« on: March 05, 2009, 08:07:34 AM »
I have a question:

God will saved all, right?

Are you talking about from adam to the last baby ever born, right? How God going to fit all human that ever been born on earth? The new earth going to need to be bigger than jupiter!

Why there new heaven? I thought God will be with us?

Offline Tony N

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1670
  • Gender: Male
    • Saviour of All Fellowship
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 11:39:01 PM »
1st of all, not everyone ever born will be on the new earth. Many will be in the second death, dead.

When God resurrects everyone maybe we will be the size of a dot on a piece of paper.

They did a study one day and found that everyone living in the world today could live in an area the size of Texas if their houses were small.

Maybe the earth will be changed with no oceans and no mountains.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 11:41:48 PM by Tony N »
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline sparrow

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1830
  • I watch, & am as a sparrow alone upon the rooftop.
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 02:53:27 AM »
1st of all, not everyone ever born will be on the new earth. Many will be in the second death, dead.

When God resurrects everyone maybe we will be the size of a dot on a piece of paper.

They did a study one day and found that everyone living in the world today could live in an area the size of Texas if their houses were small.

Maybe the earth will be changed with no oceans and no mountains.

With all that space and stuff out there and other planets and junk...
I wonder why we would all have to live in the same place.

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Tony N

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1670
  • Gender: Male
    • Saviour of All Fellowship
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2009, 04:06:17 AM »
1st of all, not everyone ever born will be on the new earth. Many will be in the second death, dead.

When God resurrects everyone maybe we will be the size of a dot on a piece of paper.

They did a study one day and found that everyone living in the world today could live in an area the size of Texas if their houses were small.

Maybe the earth will be changed with no oceans and no mountains.

With all that space and stuff out there and other planets and junk...
I wonder why we would all have to live in the same place.



We won't. The believers of the nations will live among the celestials and will be part of the administration to head up all in the Christ out there while the Circumcision believers will be living on the earth being part of the administration to head up all in the Christ on the earth.



[/quote]
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 03:47:26 PM by Tony N »
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline peacemaker

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2009, 04:14:29 AM »
"A New Body having Power and His Spirit powers the Body! "

The task ahead of us is not ever as great, as the Power behind us!

peacemaker

Offline Tony N

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1670
  • Gender: Male
    • Saviour of All Fellowship
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2009, 03:47:56 PM »
"A New Body having Power and His Spirit powers the Body! "

The task ahead of us is not ever as great, as the Power behind us!

peacemaker


Very good peacemaker!
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Nathan

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3053
  • Gender: Male
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2009, 04:46:08 PM »
There isn't any natural logic to this because the order will be restored back to everything being in spirit . . .there won't be flesh as we know it . . .the new heavens to me is simply saying the dimensions between natural and spiritual are going to be reversed.  Imagine what the garden of Eden was like before the fall of man . .before the natural became predominant and spiritual became invisible.  Before the earth was cursed  . . . things will return to their virgin state.  Physical size means nothing in the spirit realm.  It's also an area where our limited minds will struggle seeing it until we actually experience it for ourselves.

Offline Tony N

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1670
  • Gender: Male
    • Saviour of All Fellowship
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2009, 05:51:20 PM »
There isn't any natural logic to this because the order will be restored back to everything being in spirit . . .there won't be flesh as we know it . . .the new heavens to me is simply saying the dimensions between natural and spiritual are going to be reversed.  Imagine what the garden of Eden was like before the fall of man . .before the natural became predominant and spiritual became invisible.  Before the earth was cursed  . . . things will return to their virgin state.  Physical size means nothing in the spirit realm.  It's also an area where our limited minds will struggle seeing it until we actually experience it for ourselves.

Nathan, I'm in spirit. Is my flesh different now then when I was not in spirit?
When I was soulish, was I a being without flesh and bones . . . just a soul? No.
When I am spiritual am I a spirit being without flesh and bones . . . just a spirit? No.

Paul talks about "first the soulish then the spiritual." Then talks about Adam being the soulish and the last Adam being the spiritual. Was Adam a soul without a body? Was Christ a spirit without a body? No to both questions.

Now the difference in the future for us will be that our bodies, rather than being powered by soulish desires will be powered by spirit.

peace
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline peacemaker

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2009, 06:38:38 PM »
"To join in marriage, is to be ONE with Him in Spirit and body."

PM

Offline Nathan

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3053
  • Gender: Male
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2009, 06:40:42 PM »
There isn't any natural logic to this because the order will be restored back to everything being in spirit . . .there won't be flesh as we know it . . .the new heavens to me is simply saying the dimensions between natural and spiritual are going to be reversed.  Imagine what the garden of Eden was like before the fall of man . .before the natural became predominant and spiritual became invisible.  Before the earth was cursed  . . . things will return to their virgin state.  Physical size means nothing in the spirit realm.  It's also an area where our limited minds will struggle seeing it until we actually experience it for ourselves.

Nathan, I'm in spirit. Is my flesh different now then when I was not in spirit?
When I was soulish, was I a being without flesh and bones . . . just a soul? No.
When I am spiritual am I a spirit being without flesh and bones . . . just a spirit? No.

Paul talks about "first the soulish then the spiritual." Then talks about Adam being the soulish and the last Adam being the spiritual. Was Adam a soul without a body? Was Christ a spirit without a body? No to both questions.

Now the difference in the future for us will be that our bodies, rather than being powered by soulish desires will be powered by spirit.

peace

Yup Tony, I know where you're coming from . .we've gone through much before on this same topic.  I also beleive that "this" body I'm in right now is not an eternal one . . .it's not going to last forever without a reorganization in the dna itself . .so I'm not seeing that this body is going to be the same as my glorified one . . .the glorified one is going to manifest where my heart is now . . .predominantly seeing the spirit realm and giving little credance to the natural . . aside from eating, sleeping, and tending to the responsibilities required in the natural realm of course . . .

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8437
  • Gender: Female
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2009, 06:48:17 PM »
 :cloud9: New heaven = mind of Christ         New earth = glorified body

He's always kept my focus on what was going on within, and not on what was without, because upon completion, what is within, eventually, will have power to change what is without. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11313
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2009, 06:52:07 PM »
:cloud9: New heaven = mind of Christ         New earth = glorified body

He's always kept my focus on what was going on within, and not on what was without, because upon completion, what is within, eventually, will have power to change what is without. Blessings...
I'm so glad you said that because....I agree! :icon_king:

Offline Nathan

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3053
  • Gender: Male
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2009, 06:54:21 PM »
:cloud9: New heaven = mind of Christ         New earth = glorified body

He's always kept my focus on what was going on within, and not on what was without, because upon completion, what is within, eventually, will have power to change what is without. Blessings...
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :goodpost: :Urock:

Offline Tony N

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1670
  • Gender: Male
    • Saviour of All Fellowship
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2009, 11:48:51 PM »
:cloud9: New heaven = mind of Christ         New earth = glorified body

He's always kept my focus on what was going on within, and not on what was without, because upon completion, what is within, eventually, will have power to change what is without. Blessings...

I sure hope the new earth is not the glorified body because it is far from perfect. The nations getting sick and needing leaves of the tree for their sicknesses etc.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8437
  • Gender: Female
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2009, 01:17:04 AM »
 :cloud9: yes, but God deals with a firstfruits company, first. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sparrow

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1830
  • I watch, & am as a sparrow alone upon the rooftop.
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2009, 01:44:49 AM »
I'm totally lost.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

IceDash

  • Guest
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2009, 01:45:15 PM »
1st of all, not everyone ever born will be on the new earth. Many will be in the second death, dead.

When God resurrects everyone maybe we will be the size of a dot on a piece of paper.

They did a study one day and found that everyone living in the world today could live in an area the size of Texas if their houses were small.

Maybe the earth will be changed with no oceans and no mountains.

okay I am very confused....you guys believed in God saved "all", but you said not everyone.....now I am very confused....and second death, dead,...didn't Jesus died for us for that?

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13149
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2009, 04:39:11 PM »
iD,

Jesus died for the endresult; being all in heaven.
Some take the shortcut to 'heaven'. -> the good people (that accepeted Jesus in this life)
Some take the detour to 'heaven'. -> the baddies

Some will enjoy the new earth (good people) while others are in the second death.
Destination is the same. Time of arrival isn't.

That's how I understand it.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Nathan

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3053
  • Gender: Male
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2009, 04:51:51 PM »
1st of all, not everyone ever born will be on the new earth. Many will be in the second death, dead.

When God resurrects everyone maybe we will be the size of a dot on a piece of paper.

They did a study one day and found that everyone living in the world today could live in an area the size of Texas if their houses were small.

Maybe the earth will be changed with no oceans and no mountains.

okay I am very confused....you guys believed in God saved "all", but you said not everyone.....now I am very confused....and second death, dead,...didn't Jesus died for us for that?

No, not everyone says that . .just Tony...  there are two sides here creating the conflict.  The one is seeing things from our "current state" of understanding . . .the other is seeing it from an inward perspective . . . my body is the earth, my renewed mind is the heavens . . .it's the treasures that lie beneath the surface of the natural thinking that we speak of . . .

to the other confusion . . . Tony is looking at it as he understands the literal picture to be in the end according to him . . .but others, including myself, believe it to be much different.

Offline Tony N

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1670
  • Gender: Male
    • Saviour of All Fellowship
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2009, 06:05:39 PM »
1st of all, not everyone ever born will be on the new earth. Many will be in the second death, dead.

When God resurrects everyone maybe we will be the size of a dot on a piece of paper.

They did a study one day and found that everyone living in the world today could live in an area the size of Texas if their houses were small.

Maybe the earth will be changed with no oceans and no mountains.

okay I am very confused....you guys believed in God saved "all", but you said not everyone.....now I am very confused....and second death, dead,...didn't Jesus died for us for that?

Everyone eventually will be saved. Before everyone is saved there are still judgments looming on the horizon which mankind must go through. Then, later on, they will be saved.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

martincisneros

  • Guest
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2009, 09:29:09 PM »
Nathan, Nathan, Nathan.  Docetism again?  1Corinthians 15 says that flesh will be changed from something corruptible into something incorruptible.  It doesn't say that flesh and blood will be done away with.  All of the corruption will simply be removed from it.  Elsewhere it talks about death being swallowed or engulfed by life.

There's between 10 and 26 demensions right now, depending on whose version of Superstring Theory that you think has the best evidence and the most solid mathematical data behind it.  Hmmm....simplifying this....

The UK has a Sci-Fi television series that I believe also airs on the Sci-Fi channel on US cable networks called "Doctor Who."   In Doctor Who the main character, the Doctor, is an extraterrestrial that has a time machine, (that can also travel to other planets,) that's quite a bit bigger on the inside than it is on the outside.

There's no reason to believe that the extrademensionality spoken of in Ephesians 3 and various other passages of Scripture won't be literally manifested on the earth, perhaps as early as prior to the millenium as passages like Isaiah 11 and other passages that take place prior to the millenium indicate to me.

As this resurrection world is coming about that's expected by both the prophecies of the Scriptures and the Omega Point Theory in science, all of the indications are there that we can have absolutely every life form that has ever existed living on the planet at that time without things being cramped.  God always creates abundance when He's doing something, so there's no reason to believe that that would be a waste if all wouldn't yet be living on the planet at that time because of the LOF detour that some people (about a third of the planet in Revelation if I remember correctly {Rev 9:18}), angels, and some animals will have to endure.

Extrademensionality in Scripture doesn't mean that flesh will be done away with, any more than your building an extra room onto your house implies that you burned down the rest of the house.  Since all areas of breath, being, and demensionality come from God, and since blood is hallowed in Scripture, and flesh is to be sanctified in Scripture, if God were seeking to destroy flesh and blood, then His house couldn't stand 'cause it would be a house divided against itself.  Romans 6 says that through Christ Jesus we present ourselves to God as alive from the dead and our bodily parts as instruments of righteousness.  Romans 12 says it's to be a living sacrifice rather than either a dead one or an annihilated one by resurrection. 

If our flesh and blood are done away with, then a very large part of the redemptive work of Christ was in vain because He died as much for the body as for the soul and spirit.  He's the ransom for our bodies as well as for our spirits and souls.  Otherwise, the resurrection was pointless and the sacrifice was not only unneccessarily brutal, but it would have sufficed without the resurrection from the dead if it was only to be the freeing of our spirits and souls from their death in trespasses.

. . .there won't be flesh as we know it . . .
20 For His invisible attributes are descried from the creation of the world, being apprehended by His achievements, besides His imperceptible power and divinity, for them to be defenseless, (Romans 1:20 Concorant Literal)

20 since the invisible things of Him, even His unknown power and Deity, are clearly seen from the creation of the world, being understood by the things which are made; so that they are inexcuseable: (Romans 1:20 Scarlett's New Testament 1798)

I think that where people get easily confused is the fact that in the resurrection there won't be any marrying or giving in marriage, and people don't often think about "what about after the resurrection in the all in all world??"  The abdication of Christ in 1Corinthians 15:24,28 is the restoration of the Edenic state where we'll definitely be told to be fruitful and multiply once again.  2Timothy 2 says that when you're engaged in warfare, you're not entangling yourself in the affairs of life, which to me would indicate that the Gospel dispensation related to the resurrecting world is one of ongoing spiritual warfare, but where the righteous obviously and universally have the upper-hand. 

As there's neither pardon in this age nor in the one to come for blasphemers of the Holy Spirit, but we often ask people to consider ages after that, I'm saying the same thing about the resurrection age where there's no marriage.  What about after that?  All of the indications of Scripture are a total restoration of spirit, soul, and body for all of Creation and there's Scriptures that speak in terms of an "ever-increasing" Kingdom which isn't successfully answered by merely considering the possibility of extraterrestrial and extrademensional life forms in parallel worlds.  Yes, we've had multiplication in this eon in order to resolve the issue of wickedness in a familial context, but there are more issues of righteousness that have to be resolved by multiplication -- and that'll never end.  God is a baby-aholic.  While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest will not cease, according to Genesis 8:22.  There's only no "day and night" in New Jerusalem, which to me indicates it being on the North Pole or something approximating the geography of that at the time.  At least with the current laws of the earth, only one of the poles could sustain an indefinitely long day or night.  (not related, but an interesting link: http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/faq.html)

Suppose we not only had elevated cities on the earth like in the Star Wars movies or in the Jetsons cartoons, but subterranean cities like in some of the folklore?  The only limitations would be waste management, food production, some measure of recycling, and renewable resources in that kind of environment.  Sky scrapers could easily be turned into farms with each floor growing a different crop.  Wouldn't be hard to do that within 50 years to be perfectly honest.  How much more in an environment where the Holy Spirit is perpetually intensely on all flesh??

Offline Nathan

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3053
  • Gender: Male
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2009, 08:59:21 PM »
Hard to follow much of what you try to say . . . I'll keep this as simple as I can . . .IF flesh profits nothing . .then why is it everyone wants to justify their thinking that flesh is going to be where it all manifests?

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8437
  • Gender: Female
Re: new earth and new heaven...
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2009, 09:21:39 PM »
 :cloud9: That's the way I see it, too. Our bodies, and the natural creation are part of the Word (that was Spirit) made flesh (natural). Since the natural is a shadow of the real (which is Spirit), why would He "spruce up" the shadow? Seems to me the shadow is consumed/covered over just like the tablets of the law were covered over by the mercy seat of the ark of the covenant. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor