But the ET vision is that God keeps a fire going. Sends worms. And many other things depending on the author of the love poem.
Abandon for me would be something like God dumping the sinners on some distant planet where the have to work for their needs instead of having it all provided by God.
Well, it depends on what adherent to eternal torment you talk to. I've heard some say that hell is simply the eternal estrangement from God, whereas others say, as you say, that it is more an active torture chamber. Not that the first is much better than the second - at least in the second you'd have something to take your mind off of the fact that God has abandoned you for all eternity.
But even that argument is weak.
Atheists don't believe in afterlife. So their "wish" is being snuffed out. Not tortured.
The wish of a muslim is to meet allah.
The wish of a pagan is to meet their tree god.
So the wishes where never being seperated from God but being with their god. That's not just semantics.
All where genuine in their believe. A muslim doesn't worship allah to annoy 'our' God. He worships allah because s/he feels that's the only god.
Well, I suppose I should back up a little bit and explain where my head is at.
When I speak of one who died in sin, I'm not by any means talking about the same sort of thing as a fundamentalist preacher might be speaking of. I will admit right up front that I have unorthodox views on what it means to believe in Jesus as seen in verses such as John 3:16. Although, then again, I suppose all of us here are guilty of unorthodox thought with respect to modern times.
The Greek word translated there into to "believe" is pisteuo
. When applied to a known figure such as Jesus, it really refers not to so much to factual belief, but rather belief in one's spiritual leader - the trust and confidence that following that person will not lead you astray. When I put this fact against statements such as those found in 1 John that "everyone
who loves has been born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7, emph. added), I find it very difficult to believe that one who humbly spreads sincere love to his neighbors, yet happens to be (say) Muslim, will find himself in disfavor with God as one would who spends his entire life in self-indulgent greed or sloth and dies wholly unrepentant. Who are the ones who found aionion
life in Matthew 25:31-46? The ones who fed the hungry, who gave drink to the thirsty, who clothed the naked, who cared for the sick - and who, in doing so, did the same for God... much to their surprise, in fact!
So when I speak of one who died in sin, I'm not referring to one who simply happened to grow up in a part of the world where he or she grew to adhere to a religion other than Christianity. I'm speaking of one who rejected love, kindness, and generosity their entire life - the sort of person who is in dire, dire need of an infusion of God's endless love.
Gab, I agree. BTW, love the Chocobo avatar!
Thanks, I do too.