Author Topic: Matthew 15:4  (Read 2396 times)

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Full of Questions

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Matthew 15:4
« on: November 30, 2010, 04:09:17 AM »
I'm afraid I have dishonoured my father by arguing with him and not obeying him as much as I should.  I want to improve my ways and become a better person.  I have questions over Mattew 15:14, though.  "for God did command, saying, Honour thy father and mother; and, He who is speaking evil of father or mother -- let him die the death".

If we speak bad things against our parents, are we really supposed to die?  I think I have faith that Jesus covers all of our sins.  But I still have questions.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 04:13:53 AM by Full of Questions »

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 04:19:06 AM »


You have to read the rest of the chapter in context.

Jesus was speaking to pretenders and hypocrites and using that as an example.

Offline marie glen

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 06:46:17 AM »
Hi! We all die the death... but Jesus rescued us. Traded with us, our consequence/result/wages of sin/imperfection for his eternal life/perfection, which we will "put on" at the (1st) resurrection which is at the Last trump(et) - 1 corinthians 15:51-54 & 1 thessalonians 4:15.
- Does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (2nd Resurrection) during age of Judgment? sure to be weeping and wailing?
- Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process?
- "Behold I make aLL things new" Rev21:5
- "On every high mountain and hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day ..when the towers fall." Is 30:25
- "A new heavens and a new earth" Rev 21:1
- "The lion will eat straw like the ox.. the bear will graze with the cow" Is 11:7
- "They will sit each under his vine, and under his fig-tree, with none troubling.." Micah 4:4

Offline marie glen

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 06:47:19 AM »


You have to read the rest of the chapter in context.

Jesus was speaking to pretenders and hypocrites and using that as an example.

Amen! Context is all important! :)
- Does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (2nd Resurrection) during age of Judgment? sure to be weeping and wailing?
- Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process?
- "Behold I make aLL things new" Rev21:5
- "On every high mountain and hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day ..when the towers fall." Is 30:25
- "A new heavens and a new earth" Rev 21:1
- "The lion will eat straw like the ox.. the bear will graze with the cow" Is 11:7
- "They will sit each under his vine, and under his fig-tree, with none troubling.." Micah 4:4

Full of Questions

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2010, 01:04:44 AM »
Thank you for your help.  I also wonder, what about the part where Jesus said: "Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets -- I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil."  What did He mean when He said this?

I know that we're under a New Covenant now.  Did He mean all of the laws?  What about killing people when they speak against their parents? 

By the way, I've been making the effort to try and honour my father more.  It actually feels a lot better that way.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 01:31:00 AM by Full of Questions »

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2010, 02:11:32 AM »
Jesus fulfilled because He is the one of who the prophets spoke.
The greatest of all the laws is love.
You should read the four Gospels tonight.

Your dad is a child of God just as you are, why would you treat him any other way?

Offline claypot

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2010, 04:18:48 AM »
I'm afraid I have dishonoured my father by arguing with him and not obeying him as much as I should.  I want to improve my ways and become a better person.  I have questions over Mattew 15:14, though.  "for God did command, saying, Honour thy father and mother; and, He who is speaking evil of father or mother -- let him die the death".

If we speak bad things against our parents, are we really supposed to die?  I think I have faith that Jesus covers all of our sins.  But I still have questions.

all i can think of for such questions are some words we say Jesus said 'It is the  spirit  that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the  words  that I speak unto you, [they] are  spirit , and [they] are life.'

if true, i see the words of Jesus you are curious about as meaning wisdom. so much in Proverbs aligns father and mother with wisdom. seems to me God is sending a decree into our lives by sending His word (Jesus) to say and thus cause us to honor wisdom thus causing us to live. all that is not good in us will die the death.

His word never returns void, it always accomplishes what it was sent to accomplish.

So shall my  word  be that goeth  forth  out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.

if you truely want to improve your ways and become a better person, thank God for this and honor wisdom from all sources.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2010, 04:20:40 AM »
oh, you should also respect and honor ma and pa in this physical realm too!

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2010, 05:15:36 AM »
Do you think it is right or wrong for Joyce Myers to tell the world that for years her father sexually abused her as a child?  Even if it is true, , it is evil speaking.  Or is it that Scripture just means she has by doing so forfeited the right to be among those who do not go through death, of whom it is said, "We all, indeed, shall not be put to repose (alt: sleep), yet we all shall be changed,?" (1 Cor 1551)
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline claypot

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 09:06:20 PM »
if you're asking me, i don't even know who joyce myers is much less can i say what is right or wrong for her to be doing.

i do know that there are fathers and mothers and then there are fathers and mothers and not everyone who donates sperm or who is a receptical of sperm is a father or mother.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 10:31:02 PM »
Probably something to do with the silly laws of that time. They were quite evil back then, and if you said bad things to your father you could get killed under the law.

Lawyers ruled the day back then and they used the law to condemn people all the time. They tried to condemn Jesus at every turn, because they were sly serpents and full of evil. That's why Jesus sometimes talks nonsense to avoid being caught by these evil haters, so they would see him as a harmless kook and not someone to fear.


Offline Cardinal

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 10:41:48 PM »
 :cloud9: Honor thy father and mother was the first commandment with promise, ie. that thy days would be long upon the earth. It's a natural representation of our heavenly Father and mother, who we are to give honor to, and in so doing, the natural will follow suit. My  :2c: Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 11:06:10 PM »
I have witnessed this problem many times,  it may not be what the verse is talking about, but I have at least personally related to what I have observed to it.


I have heard many people talk badly about their parents,  hating them for what they did, and to our senses it is justified.   However, in every case (of what I have observed personally)  when that parent dies, the child who hated that parent is filled with guilt and a sort of death over comes them.

In each case I have observed it did not matter how bad the parent actually was, the child who lived a life of hatred and contempt towards that parent was deeply affected negatively.   I believe this is because once the parent dies the child realizes that no reconciliation on earth is possible, not only will the parent not be able to be sorry for what they did in this life, if the child realizes things they did wrong it is also impossible to reach reconciliation.

That is very damaging emotionally.  I came to this belief in time and have forgiven my parents and have made the effort to treat them with respect whether or not anyone might think they don't deserve it.

At the very least when my parents pass away, that deep regret will not poison me.



Offline Cardinal

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2010, 12:44:56 AM »
 :cloud9: EXACTLY. I've observed the same thing.  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2010, 05:44:27 AM »
It is a very practical matter to me.  I wonder if significant abuse by a parent or even someone known by the family, things pertaining to our childhood, should be written in an autobiography as part of the real story with the intent of helping many who are also dealing witht the same sort of things in their own life?  This commandment has prevented me so far; but, I also think I'm missing an opportunity to do much good.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Texas Son

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2010, 12:55:43 PM »
I'm afraid I have dishonoured my father by arguing with him and not obeying him as much as I should.  I want to improve my ways and become a better person.  I have questions over Mattew 15:14, though.  "for God did command, saying, Honour thy father and mother; and, He who is speaking evil of father or mother -- let him die the death".

If we speak bad things against our parents, are we really supposed to die?  I think I have faith that Jesus covers all of our sins.  But I still have questions.

You are already on the right track. Jesus walked (perfectly) under the Law for us when He walked in the flesh. You pointed to the Scripture that says Do not think I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill". And fulfill He did! So now we are no longer under the Mosiac Law, we are under grace.

We should honor our parents but to do so is not law. Parents many times are not worthy of that honor, but if we walk with Jesus, and as imitators of Him, it will be our nature to honor them. 

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2010, 07:41:08 PM »
 :cloud9: I, too, would have every reason to discuss childhood trauma by parent's, but what I found is, if prompted by the Lord to discuss it one on one in a ministry type situation, then I can "reguritate" it, but to do so apart from that is a spirit of necromancy, because what they did is under the blood now and as such, the people that did those things, are "dead" (spiritually speaking, though they are literally dead now too), but alive in Christ.

I thank Him for healing me and healing them (both before and after physical death). The fact that I know that a spirit(s) used them to do harm, also made it easier to forgive, and if anything this is what I tend to bring out to anyone, ie. that a spirit did whatever it was. Truly we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but multitudes of believers, do not experientially know this. Sometimes, just gaining that knowledge alone is enough for them to be able to get past it all by focusing on the true enemy. My  :2c: Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline claypot

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2010, 03:29:19 PM »
i hear ya card. what helps me with such people (including myself, maybe especially myself) is what i am seeing as to 'what' God is. i am seeing that all of us are products of innumerable (trillions and more) bits of input and data. God is all of this. God is creator of and in charge of every facet, every situation that creates a new essence in our beings.

now a 'bad' parent is a product of all this. no one decision or act makes someone a bad parent. we seem to get the privilage or curse of making decisions that either accelerate or slow down the process that has been started generations ago but we certainly don't seem to be 100% or even 10% responsible for what we are. how could we? we don't ask to be born with the baggage we are born with and that has been started centuries ago.

just some thoughts.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline CHB

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2010, 07:30:21 PM »


now a 'bad' parent is a product of all this. no one decision or act makes someone a bad parent. we seem to get the privilage or curse of making decisions that either accelerate or slow down the process that has been started generations ago but we certainly don't seem to be 100% or even 10% responsible for what we are. how could we? we don't ask to be born with the baggage we are born with and that has been started centuries ago.
cp

No wonder God (Rom. 11:32) concluded... {shut them all up together}...them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.  We are a work in progress. 

CHB 

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2010, 07:35:51 PM »
 :cloud9: That's very true CP.....from my point of view, what you just said is from the generational curses, which are "transmitted" from generation to generation as spirits, ie. FAMILIAR spirits.

So we don't just overcome the things WE gave "life" to with our choices, but we overcome what our bloodline gave "life" to, and in that way BOTH are set free and the bloodline is experientially cleansed, not "positionally" (doctrinally) cleansed. He did it, we have to appropriate it.

Which is what the now-spiritual priesthood does by "setting their feet in the Jordan" (dying to self, make of yourselves a LIVING sacrifice) for the others, so that the waters are rolled back all the way to Adam. My  :2c: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2010, 08:25:52 PM »


Great post, Card.

Full of Questions

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2010, 10:57:40 PM »
Thank you so much for your help, guys.

Offline claypot

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2010, 12:03:42 AM »
:cloud9: That's very true CP.....from my point of view, what you just said is from the generational curses,

i hear ya card but i'm thinking that it is so much more than generational curses. i'm thinking of all the uncountable bits of info even from the time we are conceived. just think about it. trillions upon trillions of factors make us who we are from conception onward and then to add to these, all the factors from the generations before us. it really blows my mind. and to think we really only have influence over maybe a tiny percentage of all these factors. makes [mod edit] seem very non existant in the big picture.

cp
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 12:13:45 AM by jabcat »
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2010, 12:40:55 AM »
 :cloud9: I know what you mean......I totally agree  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline claypot

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Re: Matthew 15:4
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2010, 01:35:11 AM »
thanks card. i had to think real hard about that mod edit but it came through loud and clear. almost fell into a deep pit there. thanks again for watching my back.
cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.