Author Topic: Madeline L'Engle  (Read 1958 times)

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Jerm

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Madeline L'Engle
« on: December 31, 2009, 05:38:39 AM »
Has anyone here ever read any of Madeline L'Engle's books (A Wrinkle In Time, A Ring of Endless Light, etc.)  I saw the Disney film version of A Ring of Endless Light but never read the book.  Anyways, according to this article, she believed in universal reconciliation.  Cool huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeleine_L%27Engle#Religious_beliefs

martincisneros

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Re: Madeline L'Engle
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 06:39:30 AM »
Quite a few occultists like her believe in some form of ultimate harmony with all things, but in their pursuit of depth of philosophy & power don't always have that understanding of the cosmos firmly rooted in the Lordship of Christ Jesus, their need to embrace & yield the reins of their life to Him, & their need to promote embracing His Lordship while renouncing ungodliness & proving their repentance by their deeds according to Luke 24:47, Acts 11:18, Acts 17:30, Acts 20:21, Acts 26:20, 2Corinthians 7:9, and 2Timothy 2:25.  Not believing in eternal torment & believing in being His disciple & understudy are two entirely separate issues.  Demons believe in the fact that there's no eternal duality, but they're not yet subjected to Christ Jesus in the way that they'll ultimately be per 1Corinthians 15.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Madeline L'Engle
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2009, 08:01:42 AM »


So what makes her an occultist other than religious people saying she is because she doesn't comform to religious idiocy?


martincisneros

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Re: Madeline L'Engle
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2009, 09:36:57 AM »
So what makes her an occultist other than religious people saying she is because she doesn't comform to religious idiocy?
The word "occult" is essentially the same word as "mystic" and an "occultist" is essentially the same word as someone who is a "mystic."  It's taken on a more vulgar intention in many popular, particularly evangelical, circles, but I believe you can find early 20th century authors like Arthur Pink referring to the occultic meaning of a prophetic text of the Bible that they're briefly going to comment on in passing, and obviously they're not advocating hanging Pentagrams in one's house, using Santaria candles, or whatever, but are meaning the word as interchangeable with "mystical" though the word has unfortunately taken on the implication of a vulgar meaning, which sometimes is how it's meant and sometimes it's used advising caution rather than red light. (as in my usage of the word, as a yellow light rather than a red one.)

It's most common usage in Christianity of the word "occultist" is meaning someone more interested in spiritual knowledge than in having that ALONG WITH a growing knowledge of the Saviour, i.e. her obvious gnosticism would be one thing that many would cite about her.  In many circles, I'd personally be regarded as an occultist 'cause I believe in prospering and being in health even as my soul prospers and that immortality is attainable in this life via certain readings and applications of the Scriptures, and my unorthodox views of the Hosea 2:18 covenant, the coming of the Lord WITH His saints, to be conformed to the image of God through Christ means, involves, and includes having one's mate that He's got in mind, etc.

So, I tread softly about using it as a blanketly negative term and was simply being factual in my usage of the term that it's that denoting a spiritual seeker, and I was saying that if one that is a spiritual seeker misses the point of the demands of the Gospel upon one's life while pursuing deeper readings of it, i.e. being a hearer of the word while excluding being a doer of the Word then a person that's in that position of hearing for a whole life time with little to no doing, then they may come to valid conclusions but won't share them with balance 'cause the emphasis will be upon the tickling of the ears rather than a transformed life that's an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God.

Let me rephrase my opening comment in my previous post for you to see what I was getting at, and that this is what I was getting at when you rethink the post:

"Quite a few spiritual seekers like her believe in some form of ultimate harmony with all things, but in their pursuit of depth of philosophy & power don't always have that understanding of the cosmos firmly rooted in the Lordship of Christ Jesus..."


From google on "occultist":

Definitions of occultist on the Web:

a believer in occultism; someone versed in the occult arts
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

The word occult comes from the Latin word occultus (clandestine, hidden, secret), referring to "knowledge of the hidden". ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occultist

A person who dabbles in occultism
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/occultist

occult - eclipse: cause an eclipse of (a celestial body) by intervention; "The Sun eclipses the moon today"; "Planets and stars often are occulted by other celestial bodies"
occult - become concealed or hidden from view or have its light extinguished; "The beam of light occults every so often"
occult - supernatural: supernatural forces and events and beings collectively; "She doesn't believe in the supernatural"
occult - hidden and difficult to see; "an occult fracture"; "occult blood in the stool"
occult - hide from view; "The lids were occulting her eyes"
occult - supernatural practices and techniques; "he is a student of the occult"
occult - mysterious: having an import not apparent to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence; beyond ordinary understanding; "mysterious symbols"; "the mystical style of Blake"; "occult lore"; "the secret learning of the ancients"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

occultism - a belief in supernatural powers and the possibility of bringing them under human control
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Occult - An occultation is an event that occurs when one object is hidden by another object that passes between it and the observer. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occult_(astronomy)

Occultists - List of notable occultists and mystics.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occultists

occult - Supernatural affairs; : To cover; Secret; hidden from general knowledge; undetected; Related to the occult
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/occult

occult - disease or symptoms that are not readily detectable by physical examination or laboratory tests.
www.uchospitals.edu/online-library/content=P01370


And in the last definition given above, please note on the word "occult":

"symptoms that are not readily detectable by physical examination or laboratory tests" which is where one must continually weigh one's allegiance and EMPHASIS upon the Saviour of the world rather than just EMPHASIZING "the Way."  The dangers of an occultist lacking a right relationship with the Saviour of the whole world and a right relationship to everything Father is EMPHASIZING for one's life is obviously given to us by this passage of Scripture:

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' 24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall." (Matthew 7:21-27)

And obviously 2Peter 2 would come to mind:

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.

9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness (or of emptying self - see previous verse), they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

And of course, Romans 6 would come to mind about as you were formerly a slave of sin, now become a slave of God, including in your flesh, receiving with meekness the ingrafted word which is able to save your bodies would be the implication of Romans 6 read with Hebrews 5, Proverbs 4, Colossians 3, Ephesians 5, and numerous other passages of Scripture that weren't the point of this post -- but not at the expense of knowing Him and making HIM known to all of the nations; Him first, His ways secondarily. :bgdance:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Madeline L'Engle
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2009, 11:00:14 AM »
So what makes her an occultist other than religious people saying she is because she doesn't comform to religious idiocy?

I think it's mostly about size.
If a small percentage of people does some weird thing like wicca then it's called occult.
But if an ancient civilisation does the same of national scale it suddenly is called religion.
It's just like that UR is called a cult because it's a small movement that differs from mainstream Christianity. Another favorite word is heretic.
A heretic is someone of a minority group that doesn't believe as the majority.
It's even regional bound. A Christian is a heretic in a muslim country and the otherway around.

Occultist = label from rivaling occultists  :laughing7:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Madeline L'Engle
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2009, 02:56:31 PM »
Quote
"Quite a few spiritual seekers like her believe in some form of ultimate harmony with all things, but in their pursuit of depth of philosophy & power don't always have that understanding of the cosmos firmly rooted in the Lordship of Christ Jesus..."


I would say it is a far cry closer than a person may think.


Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Madeline L'Engle
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2009, 03:14:29 PM »

Occultist = label from rivaling occultists  :laughing7:


LOL,   yeah and invoking Jesus name doesn't actually change that.

Offline Doc

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Re: Madeline L'Engle
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2009, 08:23:26 PM »
 :mshock:

I thought that Madeline was a believer!
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline fullarmor2

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RE: Madeleine L'Engle
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2010, 01:29:15 AM »
     I found this quote of her.  
         L'Engle was an Episcopalian and believed in universal salvation, writing that "All will be redeemed in God's fullness of time, all, not just the small portion of the population who have been given the grace to know and accept Christ. All the strayed and stolen sheep. All the little lost ones."
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 01:33:10 AM by fullarmor2 »
For all those who live in the shadow of death,  a glorious light has dawned!  And for all those who stumble in the darkness,   behold,   your light has come!!

Offline sparrow

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Re: RE: Madeleine L'Engle
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2010, 03:55:50 AM »
    I found this quote of her.  
         L'Engle was an Episcopalian and believed in universal salvation, writing that "All will be redeemed in God's fullness of time, all, not just the small portion of the population who have been given the grace to know and accept Christ. All the strayed and stolen sheep. All the little lost ones."

beautiful.. :HeartThrob:
I didn't know she believed in the salvation of all.
That's awesome.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

martincisneros

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Re: RE: Madeleine L'Engle
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 08:01:17 AM »
    I found this quote of her.  
         L'Engle was an Episcopalian and believed in universal salvation, writing that "All will be redeemed in God's fullness of time, all, not just the small portion of the population who have been given the grace to know and accept Christ. All the strayed and stolen sheep. All the little lost ones."
Thomas Talbott quotes her regarding the salvation of Satan in his book "The Inescapeable Love of God."