Author Topic: Limited Atonement?  (Read 2315 times)

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Offline FineLinen

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Limited Atonement?
« on: August 26, 2007, 06:12:35 PM »
One silly petal of the T.U.L.I. P. flower dogma is "L". Just think of it, limited at one ment!   :mshock:

Let's search for "limited" in Canon!  :dontknow:

Search= Limited=

One entry found.

Quote
You have limited the Holy One of Israel.
In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Mickiel

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Re: Limited Atonement?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2007, 07:52:27 AM »
One silly petal of the T.U.L.I. P. flower dogma is "L". Just think of it, limited at one ment!   :mshock:

Let's search for "limited" in Canon!  :dontknow:

Search= Limited=

One entry found.

Quote
You have limited the Holy One of Israel.



Greetings Finelinen,

Its been awhile since I spoke to you.

Having just responded to a question about how one can reconcile the belief in the Salvation of all, as opposed to the response that men could have in knowing that, and just going on a life long sin rampage , and binge on sin with no responsibility to even think they need to stop.  At its core, its really an effort to limit Gods forgiveness, and just not let men get away with it, a penalty must be paid, as if Christ death had circumstances involved in its application.

I think part of the birth of the attraction to limited Atonement, is the fearful looking to judgement which haunts mens minds and belief. So scared that we must build doctrines that give us comfort, and give others hell. Sin, like hidden landmines, just explodes into our interpretations of Gods ability and true nature. It goes off and distorts our view of God, explodes into our Church's, gets into our thinking, and then implodes into our views of Gods range of ability.

Is Gods arm now too short to reach out to humanity? We walk in sin and it destroys our feet. It Mame's us and blinds us, and from this point of view, we calculate that God cannot save but certain humans in certain conditions. Only certain needs will be covered.

There is no Limit to Gods Salvation, because there is no limit to our need for him. Where sin exist, grace has abounded diametrically to cover it.

Peace.

Offline FineLinen

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Re: Limited Atonement?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2007, 07:16:15 PM »
Quote
Greetings Finelinen,

Its been awhile since I spoke to you.

Having just responded to a question about how one can reconcile the belief in the Salvation of all, as opposed to the response that men could have in knowing that, and just going on a life long sin rampage , and binge on sin with no responsibility to even think they need to stop.  At its core, its really an effort to limit Gods forgiveness, and just not let men get away with it, a penalty must be paid, as if Christ death had circumstances involved in its application.

I think part of the birth of the attraction to limited Atonement, is the fearful looking to judgement which haunts mens minds and belief. So scared that we must build doctrines that give us comfort, and give others hell. Sin, like hidden landmines, just explodes into our interpretations of Gods ability and true nature. It goes off and distorts our view of God, explodes into our Church's, gets into our thinking, and then implodes into our views of Gods range of ability.

Is Gods arm now too short to reach out to humanity? We walk in sin and it destroys our feet. It Mame's us and blinds us, and from this point of view, we calculate that God cannot save but certain humans in certain conditions. Only certain needs will be covered.

There is no Limit to Gods Salvation, because there is no limit to our need for him. Where sin exist, grace has abounded diametrically to cover it.

Peace.

My friend, it is good to see you again.

 There is indeed no limit to our Father's salvation. The Apostle St. Paul declares in no uncertain terms in one of his uses of Koine compounds that the results of the despair of one man spread to all humanity. "As by one man's disobedience" the mass of mankind were made sinners. Yep, death reigned even over them that had not sinned after the similtude of Adam's transgression....the mass has been made sinners! What an awful state of affairs: one man sins, the whole mass of mankind enters into the consummation of that rebellion.

But "far greater" is the free gift in the Man from the Glory. St. Paul struggles to express the magnitude of "all the more", "much more then" in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Last Adam. The first Adam's results, death pervading into every aspect of this life, creeping into all of our d.n.a. strands. And this is where the struggle to express the magnitude of unlimited grace in all its poikilos colors erupts. Adam 1's disobedience spreading into all avenues: the Last Adam's breaking beyond beyond, breaking beyond the banks into the unspeakable unknown. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all mankind to condemnation EVEN SO by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all mankind unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience the mass of mankind were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall the mass of mankind be made righteous.

Limited atonement indeed! The results of one man's disobedience, swallowed up in the majesty of one man's obedience breaking beyond the banks in flood stages of glory. 
In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Mickiel

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Re: Limited Atonement?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2007, 12:30:18 AM »

My friend, it is good to see you again.

 There is indeed no limit to our Father's salvation. The Apostle St. Paul declares in no uncertain terms in one of his uses of Koine compounds that the results of the despair of one man spread to all humanity. "As by one man's disobedience" the mass of mankind were made sinners. Yep, death reigned even over them that had not sinned after the similtude of Adam's transgression....the mass has been made sinners! What an awful state of affairs: one man sins, the whole mass of mankind enters into the consummation of that rebellion.

But "far greater" is the free gift in the Man from the Glory. St. Paul struggles to express the magnitude of "all the more", "much more then" in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Last Adam. The first Adam's results, death pervading into every aspect of this life, creeping into all of our d.n.a. strands. And this is where the struggle to express the magnitude of unlimited grace in all its poikilos colors erupts. Adam 1's disobedience spreading into all avenues: the Last Adam's breaking beyond beyond, breaking beyond the banks into the unspeakable unknown. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all mankind to condemnation EVEN SO by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all mankind unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience the mass of mankind were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall the mass of mankind be made righteous.

Limited atonement indeed! The results of one man's disobedience, swallowed up in the majesty of one man's obedience breaking beyond the banks in flood stages of glory. 



Greetings,

Your words ring with the usual greatness of vernacular. Oh how sin does creep into even our D.N.A. strands. We are beeming with life, creatures made for life, and each one of us have been given that life by our Father. Being alive, we then absorb our environment, in one way or another. Even the teeth in our mouths are alive, they have roots, and they absorb what ever they " Chew on." Adam indeed chewed on things that all of his generate has absorbed, that fruit on the tree. The root system of that tree is vast and strong, and runs deep into human history, and our environment has been built upon it. Our religions have been built on it, it blocks our view of Gods Salvation, as humanity looks to the sky to see the Sun.

But there is another Son, who's light cannot be blocked out by this tree. And he has done some absorbing of his own. Yes indeed, he has absorbed our sins, and as you so well wrote, his Poikilos light cannot be blocked out by the tree, his life  purpose was not choked by the root system.

So this Salvation is what we meditate on, Chew on, and reap the glory of what we savor about our Savior. A Sweet taste it leaves to understand that none are left out of this grace. That we can absorb the Justification of all to enjoy this life, and enjoy it in its abundance.

An Abundance that defines Christ mission to be the Savior of the World.

Peace.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 09:33:19 AM by SeekerSA »

julzabro2

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Re: Limited Atonement?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2007, 05:30:19 PM »
I've never understood why those who wish to appear so righteous would try to limit God. Having faith in God should dictate that He IS God. Why would anyone be convinced to have faith in Him if He is not truly Love? And how can anyone make the claim that He IS love but then claim that only SOME are saved? It's illogical and hurts the credibility of the Body.