Author Topic: L. Ray Smith?  (Read 6685 times)

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Paul Hazelwood

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2009, 08:28:55 AM »


The most interesting thing in my walk is that going through a religion that mostly teaches an eternal hell was actually how I actually was able to notice the wonder of all men being saved as a deliverable doctrine from scripture.



martincisneros

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2009, 08:38:23 AM »
What I've been noticing is the fact that the ETer not only has an opposite/enemy message of the Scriptural doctrine of the Universal Restoration, but how they're really the bane of all good Bible teachers whose teachings aren't overtly baptized in ET.  Those that really push the ET dogma wind up getting in the way of anyone that's doing the right thing, up to their level of understanding, with the Scriptures.  There are "grace oriented" ministries that wouldn't view themselves as UR, but even they fuss and moan about the dogmatic ETer.  You really notice this in the Charismatic areas of the Church where a lot of ministries would turn their noses up even worse than we would about the stench brought into the pulpit by the diehard ETer, though they have little more than a gut instinct that what's being said by the ETer is in bad taste.  It's not just in bad taste.  It's 100% wrong, thankfully.

noname

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2009, 11:50:22 AM »
Ray opened my eyes to many things I haven't seen or considered before...not one of us has the whole truth, but bits 'n pieces of it...so I'd say he's worth investigating if you're open minded

Offline Brian

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2009, 06:09:13 PM »
Unfortunately, people are shallow enough to where if they're under impressed by the background, it won't matter how revelatory that you are in what the Holy Spirit is delivering through you.  There's no right or wrong on this.  Got to thinking about an earlier post that I'd made that itself had come out of weeks of private whining.  The most transparent are going to attract an audience that the mysterious Phantoms of the Opera could never reach, and there are others that the Phantom of the Opera is the only one that's going to get through to them 'cause they're like a little baby in awe with their mouths dropped open and the good ol' Phantom can sneak in there with the spoon full of Spiritual Gerber.  Peter we understand to be the business man from Galilee whose boat that Jesus would fill.  St. Paul is debated to this day as to who he was, why he was, whether his call was genuine or if he was Roman infiltration, etc.  Yet, St. Paul's writings do things for some people that nearly the same thing being said by St. Peter with a little different phraseology will seldom do as much for, and vice versa.

Endorsement and association seem important too. Peter for example endorsed Paul. And of course Jesus endorsed Peter. I've never felt motivated to find out more about you for instance, because you obviously have the endorsement of, and an association with Gary Amirault, who I do know all about.
I guess I'm letting Tommy Bertoli rub off on me a little, because he's particular about that sort of thing. Various people want to speak or give a word of prophecy at his church or be on his radio show. And being the Italian from Brooklyn stick ball player he is, he'll say, "buddy, I don't know you from Adam, what credibility do you have?" Now, credibility could just boil down to "so-in-so who you already know, will vouch for me".
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline legoman

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2009, 08:08:13 PM »
Yes, someone to vouch for you is credentials enough.   Failing that, read the material.

I find this an interesting case study: compare Ray Smith & bible-truths.com with another recent web-site whose author was banned here (P. C.)

In some ways, their approaches are similar, but there is a fine line that was crossed by one of them (guess who).  Believe it or not, I think both sites present some truth, but one twists it a little too far into judgement and damnation of any disagreers.

If I may indulge and paraphrase a little, this is how I see these two websites present their view.  This is my own interpretation, not a direct quote of anything they said.

Ray Smith:
God is love!  Why would he torment people forever?  Read the bible people and just believe what it says!  Don't twist it to match babylon's man-made traditions.  Snap out of it man, wake up and believe the bible.  If you believe in eternal torment, you are a hypocrite!  The bible has the truth!

Maybe a bit harsh (mneh, not really), but sometimes you need a harsh wakeup call to receive the truth.

Now lets look at the other website (who shall remain nameless):
God is love!  God has given me the truth to share with you.  You should come study with us because we have the truth.  If you do not then clearly you are rejecting men of God.  Because I have the authority of God, you will be judged and damned (even though I believe in UR, so you will be reconciled eventually).  But anyway... you DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH UNLESS YOU ACCEPT EVERYTHING I SAY AS TRUTH.

Perhaps I went a bit overboard there...  :bigGrin:  Anyway see the difference?  They both may have some (or even alot) of the truth, but there is a fine line in being "harsh" or "judgmental".

Ray can be harsh sometimes, but he claims the bible as the authority, not himself.

And I didn't need credentials to determine either of these views - I already had a good idea within half an hour of reading each parties respective website. 

The above is all my personal opinion, take it with a heavy helping of salt...

Peace...

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2009, 08:10:07 PM »



Yes, I vouch for God.   God is love and he will one day make it all right no matter what we think we know or do.

Offline legoman

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2009, 08:12:50 PM »


The most interesting thing in my walk is that going through a religion that mostly teaches an eternal hell was actually how I actually was able to notice the wonder of all men being saved as a deliverable doctrine from scripture.


 :thumbsup:

1 Cor 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.


martincisneros

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2009, 08:17:22 PM »
Endorsement and association seem important too. Peter for example endorsed Paul. And of course Jesus endorsed Peter. I've never felt motivated to find out more about you for instance, because you obviously have the endorsement of, and an association with Gary Amirault, who I do know all about.
I guess I'm letting Tommy Bertoli rub off on me a little, because he's particular about that sort of thing. Various people want to speak or give a word of prophecy at his church or be on his radio show. And being the Italian from Brooklyn stick ball player he is, he'll say, "buddy, I don't know you from Adam, what credibility do you have?" Now, credibility could just boil down to "so-in-so who you already know, will vouch for me".
Look at the people in your life with the strongest anointings.  Within 5 to 20 years at the absolute most, you're everything that the one to three strongest anointings are that you genuinely have ears to hear on an ongoing basis.  Healers reproduce healers.  Prophets reproduce prophets.  Teachers reproduce teachers.  Evangelists reproduce evangelists.  Workers of miracles reproduce workers of miracles.  Et. al.  Some people claim they want to live beyond the Book, but when I "go there" about what happens in the anointings on our lives, lots of 'em deflect the conversation back to something weird that they're twisting the Scriptures into or whatever. :icon_jokercolor:

The anointing, which according to Isaiah 10:27, is burden removing, yoke destroying power, grows by the same laws of sowing and reaping that everything else in our lives grows by.  And the anointing on a believer's life in particular, of all of the things growing in a believer's life, is particularly susceptible to the kinds of people that one is constantly in close heart association with.  I was listening to Kevin Trudeau give a secularly based motivational talk the other day on how to get where you want to get economically.  And he brought up the interesting statistic that people wind up having in five years the average or mean income that their 5 closest friends have.  He wasn't speaking in any kind of Biblical framework and I'm not even sure if he's saved yet.  I just found that interesting that people in the secular world like that can be aware of this principle of increase or decrease by association, that you'll become what you're constantly around.

The reason why it's so easy to become clique-ish isn't just anything related to either like attracting like or whatever.  It's because people feed off of each others energy and get into a momentum with where a certain crowd is heading.  The Moses/Joshua; Elijah/Elisha; Jesus/120 disciples; Paul/Onesimus connections are how God structured the baton to be passed down and for His work to ideally increase a minimum of a thousand fold (Deuteronomy 1:11) with each passing generation.  Anyway, Holy Spirit just said to keep this post sorta basic on this, but it's true that five years from now, or between five and twenty years from now at the most, that each of us will be everything that the strongest personalities in our lives right now are.  You'll be absolutely no bigger than the biggest thought you're willing to entertain right now from the Scriptures: spirit, soul, body, financially, socially.

Offline Brian

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2009, 10:38:11 PM »
Yes, someone to vouch for you is credentials enough.   Failing that, read the material.

I find this an interesting case study: compare Ray Smith & bible-truths.com with another recent web-site whose author was banned here (P. C.)

PC? Himm... Pretty Conceited?


Quote
Now lets look at the other website (who shall remain nameless):

Nameless? Oh that's just great! Back to square one again! :talkangry:

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

aspiring son

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2009, 11:01:43 PM »
Ray was the first intro I had to UR. I find his papers very inspiring and bible based. But I think the reason Ray hasn't gone too much into his backround in his articles is because he wants you to see Christ in his writhings, not him. Plus, if you listen to his audios he does go into his backround a good bit sometimes, how bible-truths started,etc. But while we are on the subject, please pray for him as he has been dealing with an illness for quiet some time and has not been able to write as much. Another recomended writer of the gospels is J. Preston Eby. Excellent teachings there as well

Grace and peace

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2009, 11:02:27 PM »
Yes, someone to vouch for you is credentials enough.   Failing that, read the material.

I find this an interesting case study: compare Ray Smith & bible-truths.com with another recent web-site whose author was banned here (P. C.)

PC? Himm... Pretty Conceited?


Quote
Now lets look at the other website (who shall remain nameless):

Nameless? Oh that's just great! Back to square one again! :talkangry:




He is talking about Paul Cohen and  pathoftruth.com


The issue with path of truth .com  is that it irrevalent how we can be affected by Paul Cohens demeanor,   there is useful information on that website.

I just think they have retained the fear of throwing the baby out with the bathwater mentality thinking that the general direction of religion is right it is just that people sc rew it up, so then people decide to rewrap the turd and polish it.

So rather than Gods wrath heaping waves of torture upon countless humans in an eternal hell,  he simply will do that temporarily and he is lovingly there to warn you of your fate for not listening to God  (well, not listening to Paul and Victor, but of course since they speak for God, not listening to them is the same difference.   :thumbdown:)

And while he said what he said here and many do not like it, we all can have our attitude towards those ministers whose message gets under our skin,  true or untrue.


I dislike John Hagee and have yet to find anything he says worth my time, but I have to relenquish to the fact that God loves him every bit as much as I think He loves me.    :sigh:



Offline Brian

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2009, 11:08:34 PM »

:thumbsup:

1 Cor 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

That one just went in my scrap book.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (New Living Translation)
Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.


Awsome.

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline Brian

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2009, 11:30:39 PM »
Quote
PC? Himm... Pretty Conceited?

Quote
He is talking about Paul Cohen and pathoftruth.com

Yeah, I thought so. :icon_jokercolor:

You want truth?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0sEgRr3tek
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 11:35:38 PM by Brian »
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline legoman

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Re: L. Ray Smith?
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2009, 12:14:01 AM »

:thumbsup:

1 Cor 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

That one just went in my scrap book.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (New Living Translation)
Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.


Awsome.



Yep it is awesome.  Something you just never noticed before but its right there in your bible plain as day!

That's another reason I like Ray's articles - he points out stuff like the above verse, and then you say "OHHH now I get it..."

PS keep Ray in your prayers like aspiring son and others have pointed out - he is quite ill right now.