Author Topic: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"  (Read 4811 times)

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Paul

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ykbnIQocq0

He mentions Origen at some point. Just thought you guys might be interested.

Also, here's a rebuttal to the video:

http://youtube.com/view_play_list?p=35D579E4BDA4A0A4

joyful1

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2008, 01:29:51 PM »
Thanks for the link, Paul! I really liked listening to Kent Hovind when I was homeschooling.....hundreds of thousands of years ago! LOL!! He would have been very upset with me saying; "hundreds of thousands" of years ago! going to go check out the video!
Joyce :)

joyful1

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2008, 03:24:18 AM »
Wow! Quite the rebuttal!
I have to say that when I began to study the New American Standard, I was fully KJV ONLY....and was very skeptical of the NASB.....so I read as much as I could about the new translations.

I'm satisfied that this gives the closest English translation of original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. (*newest update was 1995 in light of the Dead Sea Scrolls: discovered between 1947 and 1979.)

BTW, Paul....what did you find out about the cult?
Joyce :)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 03:29:26 AM by joyful1 »

Paul

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2008, 05:12:05 AM »
Hi, Joyce  :icon_flower:

Quite the rebuttal indeed. I like that guy's delivery (FYI, he's not a Universalist.)

I think the Alexandrian Cult is Peter Ruckman's theory.  :icon_king:

Offline willieH

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2008, 07:59:05 AM »
willieH: Hi Paul... :hithere:

How areya my agnostic friend?  :cloud9:

Hi, Joyce  :icon_flower:

Quite the rebuttal indeed. I like that guy's delivery (FYI, he's not a Universalist.)

I think the Alexandrian Cult is Peter Ruckman's theory.  :icon_king:

PAUL, I'd like to address the topic title... Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"...

Says who?  ...Kent Hovind?  What does proof does he have of his assertions?    And, ...WHO the hell is "Kent Hovind" -- anyhoo?  :dontknow:  Just another "YouTube" video star - eh?  :laughing7:

Kent Hovind is just another person with something we all have in common, ...an opinion...  :dontknow:  He doesn't bother noting his references, he just makes  one unfounded statement after another, ...which the "Rebuttal guy" thoroughly nailed...

Any "chick" can say FOOTBALL sucks... does that therefore mean FOOTBALL SUCKS?  :pointlaugh:  And that none of us should pay any further attention to it?  Please...  :laugh:

Anyone can say ANYTHING, and the reciting of an opinion, does not write that opinion in stone as FACT to be believed and accepted as true...

PeacE...

...willieH  :icon_king:

Paul

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2008, 06:25:07 PM »
Kent Hovind seems like a rational, objective, open-minded person. And he's definitely very intelligent. I think he could be convinced of Universalism. He's in jail at the moment; he has a lot of time on his hands. He'd probably be willing to read Universalism literature if we sent it to him—out of boredom, if nothing else. Imagine if we had someone as prominent as Kent Hovind going around lecturing about Universalism; converting all his fundamentalist cohorts.

By the way, even though I'm agnostic, I say we because as a sentient human being, I despise the doctrine of Hell.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 06:26:50 PM by Paul »

Offline willieH

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2008, 08:57:56 PM »
willieH: Hi Paul... :hithere:

Kent Hovind seems like a rational, objective, open-minded person. And he's definitely very intelligent. I think he could be convinced of Universalism. He's in jail at the moment; he has a lot of time on his hands. He'd probably be willing to read Universalism literature if we sent it to him—out of boredom, if nothing else. Imagine if we had someone as prominent as Kent Hovind going around lecturing about Universalism; converting all his fundamentalist cohorts.

By the way, even though I'm agnostic, I say we because as a sentient human being, I despise the doctrine of Hell.

Even though you are agnostic now, does not mean you always shall be... Many which spent years as athiests are believers today.  They followed a process of change, as they considered the evidence, and proposals of Evolution versus Creation, and scrutinized the entire situation over time.

Many scientists who start out promoting and supporting Evolution, continue to examine what they are supporting, and find that the intracacies of the Universe which are observable on earth show that random evolution is ridiculous. 

I was an agnostic of sorts for the first 30 years of my life... (I'm 63)...

Explaining the evolution of physical things is one (albeit foolish) thing, but what really bothered me more were the more intangible portions of our being... such as LOVE, HATE, FEAR, SORROW... the emotional and NON-PHYSICAL things within our being... which have no explanation for being here, and were not generated from mysterious gases exploding mysteriously in the distant past...

Science really has no explanation of the existence of LOVE does it?  It is NOT scientifically MEASUREABLE, and so they ignore it, as if it is not there, when it is the most SOUGHT after quantity within humanity...  :mshock:  We ALL participate IN IT, we ALL seek it, we ALL need it... WHY?

If science does have an explanation of how and why it is here, I'd like to hear it!

As time went on in my agnosticism, ...I examined the ridiculous proposal of how MATERIAL things which did not exist prior to it, were generated from an explosion!  Any explosion!   Not to mention that DNA itself, is essentially INFORMATION.  INFORMATION does not generate itself.  What BOOK has ever "written itself"?

It is one thing to note that something physical appeared and mutated into another thing, ...but DNA is a microscopic BOOK... Which contains ALL the parameters of the lifeform in which it exists... without the DNA program within us, none of what we are would eventually materialize into what we ARE...

Take your time brother Paul... It is okay for you to challenge what is before you...

Challenging HELL was not my first step to believing... but it was my first step to being a believer in the SALVATION of ALL MEN... and it exists only in the VENGENT minds of those who perpetuate its false existence...

BTW... Up until you started this thread, I had never heard of this Hovind guy!  :omg: What is he in JAIL for?

PeacE...

...willieH  :icon_king:

Offline willieH

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2008, 09:18:04 PM »
willieH: Hi Paul...  :happygrin:

I googled Kent Hovind's name, and found that he is in jail (10yrs) for tax evasion, having failed to list his foundational organization as non-profit... resulting in tax liabilities he could not meet.

He does have several unproveable assertions which both Creationist organizations such as AIG (answers in Genesis) and the Scientific community object to...

This does not mean he is incorrect... It means that he doesn't have support of some of both the "Christian" and "non-Christian" communities...

Welcome to the crowd - eh?  :laughing7: 

We who believe that God shall save ALL MEN... don't have the support of ANY of the "Christian" community, let alone ANY of the "non-Christian" community!

That does not mean WE are incorrect either!  :pointlaugh:

PeacE...

...willieH  :icon_king:

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2008, 12:21:35 AM »
I hadn't heard Kent's name come up in several years.

I'm not sure what makes Kent open minded.



joyful1

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2008, 01:09:42 AM »
I began to read material from Kent Hovind about 20 years ago....he was a clear-headed, precise and energetic person that never backed down when confronted by evolutionists. I'm shocked that he is in the predicament that he is in right now. I understand that his wife and son have also been fined and or jailed. Whenever I see a person go through such a horrible ordeal, I feel sorry for them. You know yourself that certain things had to be "set right" in your own lives....maybe this is something that he has to get "set right." If that is possible! I see where his prison sentence will be followed by paying back $600,000 in back taxes and fines. That will pretty much keep him busy for the rest of his life since he's over 50 now.

Paul

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2008, 01:26:38 AM »
I'm not sure what makes Kent open minded.

It's a vibe I get from him, having watched some of his lectures.

All ETs should be thrown in jail.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2008, 02:27:13 AM »
I'm not sure what makes Kent open minded.

It's a vibe I get from him, having watched some of his lectures.

All ETs should be thrown in jail.




Yeah, ummm, oook.




joyful1

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2008, 11:23:24 AM »
I think all extra terrestrials should be given a chance to plead their case..... :laughing7:
oh yeah...and "phone home!"
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 11:25:51 AM by joyful1 »

waitinontheLamb

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2008, 11:56:45 PM »



All ETs should be thrown in jail.
What a disturbing comment. It is amazing the lack of loving comments made by people who supposedly know something more about God's amazing love. I am constantly reading attacks on the character or person of those who believe in a literal hell on this board. Makes me wonder if there is any fruit of the Spirit present.

Makes me question the claims made by such people.

How shameful

Offline Taffy

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2008, 12:07:48 AM »



All ETs should be thrown in jail.
What a disturbing comment. It is amazing the lack of loving comments made by people who supposedly know something more about God's amazing love. I am constantly reading attacks on the character or person of those who believe in a literal hell on this board. Makes me wonder if there is any fruit of the Spirit present.

Makes me question the claims made by such people.

How shameful

Hi waitin :icon_flower:
One cant help but to agree with you :icon_flower: :sigh:
Blessings
T

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Pierac

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2008, 02:59:26 AM »
Pure B.S.!

On the first video in less than a min., he stated if they found a mistake in a manuscript they would burn it!  Yea, right just throw away a years worth of work, and the 300 sheep skins to make the parchment it was written on!  Pure Bull. They frequently corrected manuscripts. We even have multiple copies of corrected manuscripts as far back as the 2nd century! He only wants them burned because they give the Kings James text a serious spanking.  Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the KJV, it's one of my favorites! You just have to be aware of the variant readings!






Just note the correction within the columns of this manuscript "Codex Vaticanus".

« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 03:04:01 AM by Pierac »

Paul

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2008, 03:43:01 AM »
Sorry for the comment. I'm agnostic. I realize if I'm gonna be on this forum I have to not disrupt the status quo.

Pierac, thanks for the information.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2008, 04:25:52 AM »
This should be a link to chapter previews (sorta summaries) of In Awe of Thy Word by Riplinger.  I'm aware of certain problems with the info it presents; however, the facts offered far outweigh certain idiosyncrasies.  The history of the English Bible in the later chapters of this book is most revealing.

http://www.avpublications.com/avnew/downloads/PDF/IAOTW/preview.pdf

Examine other material, including the store catalogue for another perspective at www.avpublications.com

The thing is, there has been an assault on the Bible and it's doctrines that should not be news to Christians of whatever stripe.  In spite of all the problems with creeds at all, the basic understandings described in the earliest creeds were abandoned and denied by mainline Protestant seminaries in the U.S. around 1920 and the Roman Catholics around 1940.  In European schools for "Christian" higher learning the doctrinal apostasy was 20 to 40 years earlier.  A big part of this involve a change of manuscripts upon which the translations were based.  Very loosely, it was from Byzantine text, of which there are many more, to Alexandrian.

The thing about this that has me in a personal conundrum is I think I have greater doctrinal affinity with the ancient Alexandrian School, of whom Origen (a Universalist) was prominent, than the Antiochian.  These were the two main schools.  Both taught Universal Salvation, though in different ways.  How horrible that Jerome (a Universalist) led I think it was 400 monks to destroy the library at Alexandria, a vast repository of men's earliest writings.  Theirs was the only attempt in the history of humanity, so far as I know, to bring together in one place everything ever written.  (What good's a U.N. if we can't try this again in modern times?)  Jerome's motivating antagonism was to stop allegorical interpretation of Scripture.  I think I've encountered some of those same demons in certain modern errant religionistos.  I have a very sketchy memory on the following, but there were thousands of public baths in Alexandria, and they were fueled for over 7 years with (was it?) the vellums alone (or the parchments?)

After that, there were no libraries of more than 1600 books for over 1,000 years.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

joyful1

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2008, 02:10:55 PM »
Interesting and revealing info and site, reformer!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2008, 11:47:37 PM »
All ETs should be thrown in jail.

They are locked up in their own prison of fear to be the main dish on the BBQ party.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Kent Hovind claims Origen was involved in the "Alexandrian cult"
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2008, 07:59:19 PM »
Kent Hovind seems like a rational, objective, open-minded person. And he's definitely very intelligent. I think he could be convinced of Universalism. He's in jail at the moment; he has a lot of time on his hands. He'd probably be willing to read Universalism literature if we sent it to him—out of boredom, if nothing else. Imagine if we had someone as prominent as Kent Hovind going around lecturing about Universalism; converting all his fundamentalist cohorts.

Kent always quotes from the KJV. No problem for the bit he teaches about it.
But there is some video where he explains why KJV is so great.
The first step to UR is throw out the KJV. Im not so sure he's prepared to do that.

Quote
out of boredom, if nothing else.

I think he's no longer bored. I saw lecture on YouTube. The decor was much different than the usual decor that always appears in his seminars.
No audience. Very likely filmed in prison if you ask me.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...