Author Topic: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.  (Read 2509 times)

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lee100

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John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« on: August 22, 2009, 05:21:01 PM »
Hey all my UR pals,

John 10:16

16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Notice Jesus does not say "All people" and "Every unbeliever" are His sheep. Just the ones that hear His voice. Otherwise he could not distinguish unbelievers as GOATS in Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus does not say the Sheep and the Goats will become one flock, eventually. If "all people", including the GOATS, would eventually become His sheep  this would be the time to say so, but Jesus does not. Hmmmmmmm. But the UR wants you to believe this. I think I will trust Jesus.


Matthew 7:14 " For the gate is SMALL AND the WAY is narrow that leads to life, and there ARE FEW WHO FIND IT."

Notice that Jesus says "FEW" who find this life. If "All" find this life eventually, Jesus would say so, but He does not. Jesus is very clear "Few" find it. But the UR wants you to believe "All" will find this life. Hmmmmm. I think I will trust Jesus.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 05:29:11 PM by lee100 »

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2009, 05:31:40 PM »
Hey all my UR pals,

John 10:16

16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Notice Jesus does not say "All people" and "Every unbeliever" are His sheep. Just the ones that hear His voice. Otherwise he could not distinguish them as GOATS in Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus does not say the Sheep and the Goats will become one flock, eventually. If "all people", including the GOATS, would eventually become His sheep  this would be the time to say so, but Jesus does not. Hmmmmmmm. But the UR wants you to believe this. I think I will trust Jesus.


Matthew 7:14 " For the gate is SMALL AND the WAY is narrow that leads to life, and there ARE FEW WHO FIND IT."

Notice that Jesus says "FEW" who find this life. If "All" find this life eventually, Jesus would say so, but He does not. Jesus is very clear "Few" find it. But the UR wants you to believe "All" will find this life. Hmmmmm. I think I will trust Jesus.




More fallacies that shape scripture to what you believe through inference.  Go ahead and trust Jesus, no one here will stop you.




Offline WhiteWings

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2009, 05:43:04 PM »
Lee100,
Many thanks for being so gracious to post another UR proving verse :thumbsup:

I have other sheep, which are not of this fold;
So there are other sheep AND the fold He currently is speaking to

I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Aren't those outside the flock the lost ones? Jesus they says He must and does add those other sheeps to His fold.

And about narrow/wide road/gate. Well what if the fold stands on teh narrow road and Jesus goes fetching on the wide road?

About sheep and goats notice that it is about works.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 05:51:23 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

lee100

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2009, 05:49:24 PM »
whitewings,

No , the other sheep not of this fold are the believers that will believe on him in the NT. The sheep after the cross. NT sheep. You too, are reaching in desperation because you refuse to accept the truth. Know this first of all, that no prophesy of scripture is an matter of one's own interpretation. (2 Peter 1:20)

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2009, 05:54:51 PM »
So Lee100,

How many sheep will cross?


Quoting 2 Peter 1:20 is totally useless because it also applies to you.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

lee100

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2009, 06:04:17 PM »
whitewings,

Ok, maybe this one applies. 1 Corinthians 2:14 " But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised or discerned."

All who will cross are the ones that hear Jesus' voice, His called out sheep. Not the GOATS.


Paul Hazelwood

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2009, 06:15:10 PM »
whitewings,

Ok, maybe this one applies. 1 Corinthians 2:14 " But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised or discerned."

All who will cross are the ones that hear Jesus' voice, His called out sheep. Not the GOATS.





Your misapplying the terms for your own gain.   Saul was a goat, he is no longer one.





lee100

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2009, 06:21:32 PM »
paul,

bless your heart. No, Paul was not a Goat, otherwise he would of not responded to be a Sheep. Paul was  a sheep from the foundation of the world.( Eph 1:3-6)

Offline FineLinen

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2009, 06:23:43 PM »
In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2009, 06:24:47 PM »
paul,

bless your heart. No, Paul was not a Goat, otherwise he would of not responded to be a Sheep. Paul was  a sheep from the foundation of the world.( Eph 1:3-6)


Of course, Saul was converted from a Goat,   as Paul he was indeed a sheep,  thank you for agreeing.



Offline Cardinal

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2009, 06:34:20 PM »
 :cloud9: What you don't realize is that neither talks of two types of people but of two types of NATURES within all men, and our response is what determines our nature. Which one we surrender ourselves to and how much "tribulation" it takes to get us there, determines the circumstances of our deliverance.

The word for goat runs into a word that means, to keep going in circles.

Unlike the sheep nature,which is our measure of faith to receive Him, that once spoken to will respond to His voice when He calls (I know you think YOU "decided" to turn to the Lord) them, going up over the mountain of flesh.

By surrendering to the goat nature of carnal man, the "goat" will go around and around the mountain of flesh until he wears a rut so deep, it takes Him going after the one that was lost, to pull him out of the "pit" he created for himself.

And again; if you would study the Tabernacle, you would realize that the "gate" and the "narrow way", are both references to the openings of the Tabernacle pattern, which get progressively smaller as you pass thru the 3 courts, effectively making sort of an arrow pointing the way into the holiest of all, the Most Holy Place.

The reason "few there be that find it", is because what is at the end of it is the high calling in Christ Jesus Paul spoke about, and only a remnant will find it initially, as God always deals with a firstfruits, first. It has NOTHING to do with the salvation of the others that don't initially find it, as you understand salvation.

What you do not yet realize is that these letters were written to a primarily JEWISH audience as they were brought into the Kingdom FIRST. Over the centuries, their "Jewishness" content of meaning has been lost to those of "gentile" backgrounds who do not know of nor understand the references therein. Therefore without bothering to study the pattern shown Moses in the mount, error abounds in Babylon, and THEY are your "teachers". Blessings....

"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2009, 06:37:25 PM »
whitewings,

Ok, maybe this one applies. 1 Corinthians 2:14 " But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised or discerned."

All who will cross are the ones that hear Jesus' voice, His called out sheep. Not the GOATS.
So let me get this clear. According to you there are 3 groups.
Group #1: Saved sheep in the flock.
Group #2: Lost sheep that will (eventually) be part of the flock.
Group #3: Goats that are and stay lost. They can't join the flock themselfs. Neither will the shepard help them.

Is that a correct summary?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2009, 06:43:11 PM »
:cloud9: What you don't realize is that neither talks of two types of people but of two types of NATURES within all men,
I read nothing spiritual in the "goat part". It's all about feeding, clothing, etc
Like goat=works and sheep=faith
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2009, 06:46:31 PM »
 :cloud9: Exactly, WW. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2009, 07:05:30 PM »
bless your heart.


Seriously, stop pretending to actually like me.   If you do not change how you believe then you will one day convince yourself that God has prepared me for eternal hell.  I have met enough of you people to know that you will actually justify your own hate because you become deluded that God hates me like a human being.

So knock it off.


Offline Cardinal

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2009, 07:13:20 PM »
whitewings,

Ok, maybe this one applies. 1 Corinthians 2:14 " But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised or discerned."

All who will cross are the ones that hear Jesus' voice, His called out sheep. Not the GOATS.
So let me get this clear. According to you there are 3 groups.
Group #1: Saved sheep in the flock.
Group #2: Lost sheep that will (eventually) be part of the flock.
Group #3: Goats that are and stay lost. They can't join the flock themselfs. Neither will the shepard help them.

Is that a correct summary?

 :cloud9: Good summary, WW.  :laughing7:

Funny; God hates goats so much, the tabernacle had a covering of goats hair curtains. I guess the sheep were busy that day.  :winkgrin: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Redlettervoice

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2009, 08:28:30 PM »
:cloud9: What you don't realize is that neither talks of two types of people but of two types of NATURES within all men, and our response is what determines our nature. Which one we surrender ourselves to and how much "tribulation" it takes to get us there, determines the circumstances of our deliverance.

The word for goat runs into a word that means, to keep going in circles.

Unlike the sheep nature,which is our measure of faith to receive Him, that once spoken to will respond to His voice when He calls (I know you think YOU "decided" to turn to the Lord) them, going up over the mountain of flesh.

By surrendering to the goat nature of carnal man, the "goat" will go around and around the mountain of flesh until he wears a rut so deep, it takes Him going after the one that was lost, to pull him out of the "pit" he created for himself.

And again; if you would study the Tabernacle, you would realize that the "gate" and the "narrow way", are both references to the openings of the Tabernacle pattern, which get progressively smaller as you pass thru the 3 courts, effectively making sort of an arrow pointing the way into the holiest of all, the Most Holy Place.

The reason "few there be that find it", is because what is at the end of it is the high calling in Christ Jesus Paul spoke about, and only a remnant will find it initially, as God always deals with a firstfruits, first. It has NOTHING to do with the salvation of the others that don't initially find it, as you understand salvation.

What you do not yet realize is that these letters were written to a primarily JEWISH audience as they were brought into the Kingdom FIRST. Over the centuries, their "Jewishness" content of meaning has been lost to those of "gentile" backgrounds who do not know of nor understand the references therein. Therefore without bothering to study the pattern shown Moses in the mount, error abounds in Babylon, and THEY are your "teachers". Blessings....



I agree and people really need to understand this.
Christ is the "govenor" of the "nations" and the "nations"
are IN YOU!  imag-i-nations....................here a little
there a little, He is taking control of every nation in
us until we are known as ONE HOLY NATION.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2009, 11:50:17 PM »
 :cloud9: AMEN RLV.........ONE HOLY NATION..........Blessings......
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Tim B

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2009, 12:46:29 AM »
The goats get chastised (which means, purified):

41 "Then shall He be declaring to those also at His left [aka the goats], 'Go from Me, you cursed, into the fire eonian, made ready for the Adversary and his messengers.
42 For I hunger and you do not give Me to eat; I thirst and you do not give Me drink;
43 a stranger was I and you did not take Me in; naked and you did not clothe Me; infirm and in jail and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then shall they also be answering, saying, 'Lord, when did we perceive you hungering or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in jail, and we did not serve you?'
45 "Then shall He be answering them, saying, 'Verily, I am saying to you, In as much as you do it not to one of these, the least, neither do you it to Me.'
46 And these [the goats] shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

God likes the goats. He wants to purify them.  :bigGrin:

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2009, 01:00:10 AM »
Did you know that in the Mormon belief system that they think that the other sheep are them...

Gilbert

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2009, 01:35:59 AM »
Hey all my UR pals,

John 10:16

16 "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Sigh ... it's always the questions for which many seem too ill-equipped to ask that remain to be still answered. So, let me offer some ideas which might help.

We are living in a day and hour when the door of the sheepfold remains open because it stands for repentance and forgiveness of sins through our Lord's suffering and death. As such, the Lord said: "I am the door".
John the Baptist was the first servant of God alluding to this truth in his preaching and his message made John the 'doorkeeper' who showed the sheep the correct entrance into the Kingdom of God. John the Baptist was the preparer of the way; whose word put the axe at the root of the tree of the Old Covenant. John's task was "to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared", (Luke 1:17). Later, (after John's preaching), Jesus "made purification for sins" and so opened the door to the sheepfold.

So there is a preparation. The message of John creates a new disposition or will to obey, and it makes man fit to enter into the Kingdom of God. The message of Jesus, however, not only makes the disobedient willing but also gives them the ability to obey and to enter, because they are set free from the powers of darkness who prevented them from entering. Therefore, Jesus declared: 'If it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the Kingdom of God has come upon you", (Matt 12:28). In this way the disobedient 'lost sheep of the house of Israel' were able to enter. This placed them in a near identical situation to the little children whose parents took to Jesus and about whom He said: "For to such (consecrated and protected children) belongs the Kingdom of heaven" (Matt 19:14). Later, Paul fulfilled Jesus' words: "And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd" (John 10:16).

In our days there still are followers of the teachings of John the Baptist. They preach repentance and forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ, but that is where they stop. Those who accept this message enter into the Kingdom of God, because the perfect sacrifice has been made and forgiveness of sins is accepted in faith. Repentance includes a turning away from the powers of darkness.

The parable of the sheepfold mentions the voice of the shepherd Himself. So there is a voice, or teachings of Jesus which is "much more excellent"; although it fits in with what John taught. There is a salvation which was declared at first (for the first time) by the Lord, of which "God bore witness by signs and wonders and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his own will" (Heb 2:3-4). There is a brotherhood through the forgiveness of sins which leads the sheep into the same fold. But simultaneously there is also a gospel of the Kingdom which creates a separation between the sheep in that one sheepfold.
That is the reason why Paul asked the disciples of John at Ephesus: "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" The apostle added: "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is Jesus. On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied" (Acts 19:1-7).

John's teachings led the erring sheep of the house of Israel back to the sheepfold. There they form the remnant chosen by grace. So in the sheepfold there is now a spiritual Israel from among Jews and Gentiles. But in the midst of these tribes there is the "royal priesthood" too, (1 Peter 2:9). They are anointed with the Holy Spirit and sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel (Rev 7:4). These are the Good Shepherd's 'own' sheep. He came to the sheepfold, "to lead many sons to glory", for the Kingdom of God reaches beyond the walls of the sheepfold, that is beyond the knowledge that sins are forgiven and that one has become a child of God.

The Good Shepherd brings his 'own sheep' out of the fold, and then He goes before them, and the sheep follow Him, for they know his voice (John 10:4). 'Knowing His voice' means accepting His words and His ways of thinking. Following Him means: use His methods, do the things He did and by expressing His teachings through acts.

It is not for nothing that we confess with Paul: "And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus". When the Lord added here that His sheep 'go in and out and find pasture', He was indicating that they are active in the heavenly places.  This is where they receive their spiritual food and drink the water of life, that is where they are filled with the Holy Spirit and are kept by the Lord from the enemy, the thief and robber who always tries to kill and destroy them.

Going in means: entering into the rest of the sheepfold through the forgiveness of sins and the knowledge of being a child of God, entering the rest of the perfect sacrifice of Calvary, (Heb 4). The Lord said about this: "come that they may have life, and have it abundantly", (John 10:10). All sheep in the fold have life, but those who follow the Good Shepherd have it abundantly, "for the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and He will guide them to springs of living water; and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes" (Rev 7:14). 

In some of the other parables of Jesus we see the same differentiation. The Kingdom is compared with paradise; in it there are many plants and trees, but the trees of life have a prominent position in the garden. The trees of life are symbols of the sons of God, as the Tree of life symbolizes the Son of God. These trees are on the banks of the river of the waters of life which flows from the throne of God and of the Lamb. So this parable shows us the infilling with the Spirit of God from the Father and from the Son (Rev 22:1). Another parable is that of the city of God and its temple. The 'city', the New Jerusalem, are those who are washed in the blood of the Lamb of God. But those who have received the baptism with the Holy Spirit and function in the heavenly places are the 'temple', the dwelling place of God in the spiritual world.

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2009, 02:03:54 AM »
KINGDOM AND CHURCH   There is a vast difference between the terms kingdom and church as used in the Scriptures.  Kingdom denotes a realm ruled by a king, or the territory, people, or sovereign power pertaining to it.  The word " church" is used for the Greek ek-klęsia, which denotes "a called-out company" such as the council in  the wilderness, called out of the nations of Israel Acts. 7:38; the Circumcision saints who were called out of the adulterous generation of Israel and followed the Lord ( Mat.16:18;18:17: Acts 5:11; and those "called out"  of all nations to be the body of Christ ( Eph. 1:22; 2:11-18; 3:3-7).  Christ said to the bride church (John 3:29 )—the " out-called"  Israelites who followed Him—Peter  and the eleven. " Fear not, little flocklet, seeing that your Father delights to give you the  kingdom" ( Luke 12: 32 ).  This Scripture definitely differentiates the church and the kingdom, therefore, let us heed the admonition of Scripture and distinguish these things that differ.

BRIDE AND BODY   The confusion of the term bride and body in the Scriptures is another source of grave misunderstanding and spiritual loss in the revelation of God.  The bride speaks of the " called-out" saved Israelites, according to the flesh. (John 3:29 Mat. 10:5-7; Rom 15:8) , whom the Lord called "the little flocklet" ( Luke 12:32), who are designated by the Scriptures "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation" (Ex19:5-6; Deut.7:6; 1 Peter 2:9-12), with an earthly sovereignty ( Dan. 7:22, 27; Rev.5: 9-10;20:6; 21:9-14), whose seed and name shall always abide ( Isa. 66:22 ).
   On the other hand, the body speaks of a "remnant according to the election of grace" out of Israel (Rom. 11:5 ), and Gentiles, saved and reconciled with God in a "joint body" (Eph.1:13-23 ; 3:6) in which both lose their  racial identity by  being made a new creation, in which there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female,( 1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:27-28), a new humanity (Eph. 2:11-15;Col 3:9-11) with a heavenly allotment and citizenship( Eph.1:3; Phil. 3:20-21), for administering the affairs of the celestial or heavenly kingdom (2 Tim 4:18; 1 Cor 6:3; Eph. 2:6-7; 3:10-11 ).
John, a minister of the Circumcision ( Gal. 2:9-10, writes concerning the bride church (John 3: 29; Rev. 19:7; 21:9-14, while Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles (Rom.11:13 ) , writes for "the church which is His body" (Eph.1:22-23; Col. 1:24-25)  A thoughtful consideration of the differences in these two subjects will  reveal how important it is that they be clearly distinguished in both our study and teaching of the Scriptures.
LAW AND GRACE   Much is preached and written about law and grace, but it is astonishing how these things of consequence have been mixed, despoiling the reader of understanding concerning the important truths of which they speak. The law was given privately to Israel as a nation ( Deut.4:7-8, 10-15; Lev.26:46; 27:34; Psa. 78:5),the other nations and peoples knew not its statutes and regulations (Law-Psa.147:19-20, have not the law (Rom 2:14). It was termed the dispensation of death and condemnation (2 Cor.3:7-11), because "Accursed is everyone who is not remaining in all the things written in the scroll of the law to do them" (Gal.3:10;5:3; Eze.18:4,20; 2 Kings 14:6 ).
 


lee100

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2009, 07:54:11 AM »
Cardinal,

I have know idea how you get that interpretation from the text. If we look at Matthew chapter 7 in context. Jesus starts out warning not to Judge others. Then in verse 7-12 Jesus talks about prayer and the Golden Rule. The we come to verses 13-14 Jesus talks about entering the "Narrow and Wide" gates. verse 13 Jesus talks how wide and broad the gate is that leads to destruction. Verse 14 Jesus refers how small and narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW find it. So, what Cardinal wants us to believe is Jesus is talking about the OT tabernacle in verse 14. What? How in the world do you come up with that interpretation. Verses 13-14 lead into His teaching on false prophets. From its context, it appears  that Jesus says that false ministers will neither acknowledge or teach the narrow way that leads to life, the narrow way that leads to persecution. Instead, they will do just what God shows the Old Testament false prophets did: They will teach "peace, peace"—the smooth, easy, and broad way that lead to destruction.


Cardinal, it seems to me you are adding to the text your personal interpretation which the word of God says not to do. (2 Peter 1:20) No offense, but you are Soooooo wrong.

Offline claypot

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2009, 03:42:02 PM »
bless your heart.


Seriously, stop pretending to actually like me.   If you do not change how you believe then you will one day convince yourself that God has prepared me for eternal hell.  I have met enough of you people to know that you will actually justify your own hate because you become deluded that God hates me like a human being.

So knock it off.



I told WW that coglee has a crush on him, now it seems WW has some competition!

Just trying to lighten this up a bit. coglee is a joke in so many ways yet he (I guess we can finally call him a he) is useful in so many ways.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: John 10:16 and Matthew 7:14... hmmmmm.
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2009, 04:04:31 PM »
Cardinal,

I have know idea how you get that interpretation from the text. If we look at Matthew chapter 7 in context. Jesus starts out warning not to Judge others. Then in verse 7-12 Jesus talks about prayer and the Golden Rule. The we come to verses 13-14 Jesus talks about entering the "Narrow and Wide" gates. verse 13 Jesus talks how wide and broad the gate is that leads to destruction. Verse 14 Jesus refers how small and narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW find it. So, what Cardinal wants us to believe is Jesus is talking about the OT tabernacle in verse 14. What? How in the world do you come up with that interpretation. Verses 13-14 lead into His teaching on false prophets. From its context, it appears  that Jesus says that false ministers will neither acknowledge or teach the narrow way that leads to life, the narrow way that leads to persecution. Instead, they will do just what God shows the Old Testament false prophets did: They will teach "peace, peace"—the smooth, easy, and broad way that lead to destruction.


Cardinal, it seems to me you are adding to the text your personal interpretation which the word of God says not to do. (2 Peter 1:20) No offense, but you are Soooooo wrong.

 :cloud9: Lee, you do realize there are layers upon layers of revelation in the book, don't you? If not, read this.........

The system of hebraic understanding used by all hebrew prophets and scholars was and remains a system that goes by the acronym of PARDES whic stands for PASHAT/ Literal primary meaning, REMEZ/Hints in the text of something deeper, DRASH/ The added understanding that can only be gleaned by parables, riddles, stories etc and SOD/ Secrets and mysteries which are mysterious underlying secrets revealed in text.

What I said is one them. And what I said does not take away from the letter at all. The wide gate is still the outer court realm, and it does lead to destruction, and the false prophets are teaching a false peace that leads to it. And judging others is what will ultimately result in one's placement there, as being cast into OUTER darkness (no candlestick there) is what's coming to those that are not of the few that find the "narrow way" as firstfruits, because whatever judgment you mete out is what is meted out to you.

We were not given an OT ministry of condemnation, but a ministry of reconciliation of all. Blessings....
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 04:29:05 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor