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markp64

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Jesus the only way?
« on: July 09, 2009, 02:30:16 AM »
Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.


If this is true, then how is it possible that an athiest or a muslim, neither who believe that they need Jesus, will go to heaven.

I think the translation of this passage is pretty clear friends. No one, Not one!

Please respond with scriptural proof that there is any other way BUT through Jesus to come to the father.

Thanks
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Offline Seth

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2009, 02:31:20 AM »
There is no other way for anyone to go to the father but through Christ.
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markp64

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2009, 02:33:21 AM »
You did not respond to my question. If I was an athiest, I don't believe in your Jesus. According to UR I still get into heaven? Please respond to my original post.
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Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2009, 02:34:02 AM »
I took that class:

TRUTH 101.
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Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2009, 02:36:12 AM »
Mark, you may have trouble with spiritual answers when received through a carnal mind.



                      ———>  www.youtube.com/watch?v=wutmEjdbedE
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 02:39:46 AM by Beloved Servant »
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Offline Seth

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2009, 02:40:54 AM »
Quote from: markp64 on July 09, 2009, 02:33:21 AM
You did not respond to my question. If I was an athiest, I don't believe in your Jesus. According to UR I still get into heaven? Please respond to my original post.

I responded to your challenge which was based on the false assumption that we believe there is some other way to go to the Father but Christ. But concerning your other question, I am going to have to ditto what Beloved just said: You may have trouble with spiritual answers when received through a carnal mind.

And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing. Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee? And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 02:48:11 AM by Seth »
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Offline Cardinal

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2009, 02:45:16 AM »
 :cloud9: Since He said He only spoke what He heard the Father speak.......and He is the only mediator........who do you think is waiting to show them the Father? All spirits return unto the One that sent them, ie. the Father, and since they can only get there thru the one mediator........ Blessings....
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Offline claypot

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2009, 03:46:10 AM »
Hey Mark,

I too see this verse as a spiritual truth. Jesus said His words were spirit and IMO,a physical mind will not be able to understand what is said in the verses you quoted.

Jesus is not some guy with a checklist or a toll booth kind of a set up, 'He' is truth and the way to God. If the Truth is not in you (an atheist maybe?) then you will not get to 'Heaven'. Truth is the only way out of a lie, Jesus is Truth. Light is the only way out of darkness, Jesus is Light as is His Father.

Does this help Mark?

cp
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Offline claypot

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2009, 03:47:29 AM »
Mark, do you think a Muslim or an atheist needs truth to get out of error?

cp
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For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

markp64

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2009, 04:23:01 AM »
First and foremost...... I am a Christian period. I believe that Christ died so that I could live. I am not an athiest.

Quote
Mark, do you think a Muslim or an atheist needs truth to get out of error?

I think that they need Jesus to get to the Father.



Quote
If the Truth is not in you (an atheist maybe?) then you will not get to 'Heaven'.

Are you saying that as someone who does not believe in eternal punishment that if a person does not have Christ in them they will not enter into heaven?
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Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2009, 04:27:28 AM »
do this Mark...
Extend your hand out from your body...
Now, look out to the ends of your fingers.
That! is where heaven is.
Take hold!
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markp64

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2009, 04:30:04 AM »
Quote
do this Mark...
Extend your hand out from your body...
Now, look out to the ends of your fingers.
That! is where heaven is.
Take hold!

Oh my! More dribble with no answer. I did what you asked. There is an icecream cone at the end of my hand right now. I have a hold. It is very good.
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Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2009, 04:33:29 AM »
And, Mark.
If that is what you seek, that is what you will find.
I said it over and over.
Know the Lord God yourself, know no man after the flesh, even Jesus.
Peace be with you.
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Offline lookingup

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2009, 04:41:20 AM »
Mark,
            It is a matter of faith that God is working His plan in His way to bring about what He desires, and that is images of Himself. He is not defaulted to plan "B" after Adams' fall or plan "C" or plan "D", etc., etc., i have come to the conclusion that man puts God in a box when it comes to the man thinking that when this vapor of a life ends, all opportunities to recieve the light comes to an end.  Should that be true then these scriptures mean nothing:

Isa 26:9 - 
With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Luke 3:5-6: 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

Mark 9:49-5 . 49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If the unknown millions that lived and either never heard of the Savior or refused in this life, how can any one of these scriptures be true? In my opinion that there is learning, after the judgement, we will learn through chastisment, and it will be torturous, but it will be learning, not just torture for tortures' sake.

In my opinion anyone who thinks that they can live the life of wickedness and still get into heaven anyway speaks volumes of what is in their heart.
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Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2009, 04:59:57 AM »
"Images of Himself"
That should be a book in the Bible.
But even more than that...
We are Himself — every last nuance.
That is: The Revelation of Jesus Christ
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 05:04:28 AM by Beloved Servant »
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Offline Seth

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2009, 05:06:41 AM »
I'll just say one thing to my bros and sisters before I turn off my notifications for this thread. Don't toss pearls....
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markp64

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2009, 05:47:31 AM »
Quote
Isa 26:9 -
With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Isa 26:14 They are dead, they will not live; They are deceased, they will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And made all their memory to perish.

Quote
Luke 3:5-6: 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh  shall see the salvation of God.

Luk 3:7 Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luk 3:8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
Luk 3:9 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

Quote
Mark 9:49-5 . 49 For every one  shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Mar 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched--
Mar 9:44 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' [40]
Mar 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched--
Mar 9:46 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' [41]
Mar 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire--
Mar 9:48 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'

Quote
1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

He was addressing the BELIEVERS in Corinth. Not sure how this verse by itself furthers your belief.

Quote
In my opinion anyone who thinks that they can live the life of wickedness and still get into heaven anyway speaks volumes of what is in their heart.

I am a Christian and do not live my life in wickedness. I was posing the question that IF a person lived this way.......

However regardless of what is in this person's heart is immaterial with regard to eternal life. He still makes it to heaven!

Thank you for trying to answering my question.

God Bless
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Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2009, 06:44:10 AM »
Mark,
you'll get more replies than arguments.
We love you man.
You can find rest here.
God will answer your questions if you wait upon the Lord.
It's His time, not ours.
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Offline peacemaker

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2009, 08:15:02 AM »
A doctrine of exclusion?

"Who will have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, AND TO COME UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH." (1 Tim 2:4)

(It's only a matter of time and correction, i.e. judgment)

But if we sin deliberately after receiving the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment. (Hebrews 10:26)

For it would have been BETTER FOR THEM NOT TO HAVE KNOWN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the HOLY COMMANDMENT delivered unto them."  ( 2 Peter 2:20-21)

"And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe THE TRUTH but had pleasure in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS."   (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12)

(One should do a study on what it is to be condemned, not burnt to a crisp; many non-believers are led astray, as are those who profess with their lips)

THE LIFE of Christ will judge ALL MEN (Amen).

peacemaker
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Offline sparrow

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2009, 08:16:33 AM »
Yes. Jesus is the only way and hallelujah...every knee will bow.
every knee will bow under the sheer weight of God's love.
It's a pretty awesome picture of love and redemption.
God is PERFECT.
Mankind is not.
but God IS.

Trust in Him.
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"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2009, 08:38:19 AM »
When you are loved, you may be spanked on the buttocks. :mshock:
And when you are spanked out of love; it's called correction.


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Offline claypot

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2009, 07:00:33 PM »
Quote from: markp64 on July 09, 2009, 04:23:01 AM
First and foremost...... I am a Christian period. I believe that Christ died so that I could live. I am not an athiest.

Quote
Mark, do you think a Muslim or an atheist needs truth to get out of error?

I think that they need Jesus to get to the Father.



Quote
If the Truth is not in you (an atheist maybe?) then you will not get to 'Heaven'.

Are you saying that as someone who does not believe in eternal punishment that if a person does not have Christ in them they will not enter into heaven?

Mark, now you are the one not answering my question. I asked you if a Muslum or an athiest needs truth to get out of error. Yes or no?

To answer your question to me I say that no one will enter Heaven without the Christ in them and they in Christ.

cp
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For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2009, 10:00:24 PM »
Quote from: markp64 on July 09, 2009, 02:33:21 AM
You did not respond to my question. If I was an athiest, I don't believe in your Jesus. According to UR I still get into heaven? Please respond to my original post.


This is why I asked you in the other thread whether you were talking about Christian Universalism or the Unitarian type.

Exactly where can I find a Christian universalist Document describing that a person still gets into heaven without believing in Jesus?

Please answer this, so that I can appropriatly respond.   As a Christian Universalist, biblically speaking, all must be reconciled through Jesus, and ALL will.

According to John 6:44  All will be drawn to christ,   According to philippians  every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is lord, to the glory of the Father.

Plain declarations of what will happen.   I believe them.

I realize you say you have studied UR very extensively, so I will take you at your word, so please post the source of your information.


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Offline jabcat

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2009, 08:42:30 AM »
Quote from: peacemaker on July 09, 2009, 08:38:19 AM
When you are loved, you may be spanked on the buttocks. :mshock:
And when you are spanked out of love; it's called correction.

 :thumbsup:

Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on July 09, 2009, 10:00:24 PM

Exactly where can I find a Christian universalist Document describing that a person still gets into heaven without believing in Jesus?

As a Christian Universalist, biblically speaking, all must be reconciled through Jesus, and ALL will.


Amen Paul. 

So many times we misunderstand, yet don't stop arguing our point long enough to hear and learn.   :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 09:23:16 AM by jabcat »
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For the [logos-saying-word] word of God [is]alive and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

noname

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Re: Jesus the only way?
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2009, 10:36:05 AM »
Mark,
even Jesus said to the Samaritan woman at the well that the FATHER prefers us having a direct relationship with Him in Truth and Spirit...and Jesus also said that there are sheep of the Father's which are not of his flock...

Jesus also said that every man/woman would be judged by the works they performed on earth...
there are many that call themselves Christian and believe in Jesus but does not do what he has shown us to do...and Jesus also said that even the demons believe in him...so from this I deduct that believing is not a ticket into heaven, only righteous works of which Jesus gave us a perfect example
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