Author Topic: Jesus in Hell  (Read 958 times)

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Offline ded2daworld

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Jesus in Hell
« on: December 17, 2010, 10:54:24 PM »
Peter says that during the 3 days that Jesus was in the earth (hell) that he went and preached to the spirits in prison, the ones that had died prior to or in the flood. If a persons fate is sealed at the time of his death, why would Jesus do this?
If there were no hope and they were eternally lost, wouldn't it be the height of cruelty for our loving savior to rub their noses in it?
It says he preached to them.
The reason nobody goes and preaches to people in the morgue is because there is no more hope for them - IN THIS LIFE!
Jesus wasn't preaching, "Too bad for you, losers."
He was preaching, " Don't be afraid. Come to me and trust me and let me love you and wipe away the crimson stain of your sin."
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline thinktank

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Re: Jesus in Hell
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 12:47:07 AM »
The problem is that if a spirit has unresolved issues in this life then they are going to carry that burden into the next life, and that sin seperates them from God.

I'm not sure how exactly a spirit would convert after death, there is not much spoken about it apart from maybe that scripture you refer too. But another scripture says, that Jesus said to some people, without me you will die in your sins.

It is a challenge to figure out what exactly is the penalty for dying in ones sins. The non UR answer is the ET HELL and life is over, but according to UR interpretation it is a challenge to understand the various meanings of Jesus such as perishing etc.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Jesus in Hell
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2010, 01:09:33 AM »
Let me share how I view this.  I like that passage from Peter.  I agree - if as orthodoxy says, death "seals the deal", then the episode with "those disobedient in the days of Noah" doesn't add up.

Also, yes, anyone who dies without Jesus dies in their sins.  They have missed the life of living close to Him in His kingdom here on earth.  Some say further, they will also miss the first resurrection and a time of reigning with Christ.   But my thoughts from there go;

another important verse is "every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord".  Another verse states one can only do this IN (not the mistranslated 'BY') the Holy Spirit.  Then a third verse states that anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, while a fourth says confess Jesus as Lord and YOU WILL BE SAVED.   So when every knee bows and every tongue confesses.... :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 01:33:11 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

PaoloNuevo

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Re: Jesus in Hell
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2010, 02:36:24 AM »
Hello Ded, I agree with the above posters!  :bigGrin:

But as for punishments for sin: God already accounted it to Jesus on our behalf... and yes, the ET beleif that Jesus died to save us from an eternal hell wont add up because His sufferings (for a period of about 24 hours) can NOT in any way substitute for an eternal penalty IF that is what God has in store for sinners...

All judgment was already made upon Christ...

Isaiah 53:6 (New International Version, 2010)


6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
   each of us has turned to our own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
   the iniquity of us all.


But in the gospels Jesus says there will be varying degrees of punishments. God renders one according to works, no more. No less... but even as He renders judgment He does so to BRING a person TO Jesus Christ who died for that currently unsaved person. In this life or the next...

AND, just because people are Christian doesn't mean they don't have to undergo trials and sufferings. Mind you, Peter was crucified UP SIDE DOWN, imagine the agony of that because your lungs would collapse and your internals will start hemmorhaging because of that...

Jesus said, those who trust in Him will do the same things he does even GREATER things.

I believe that in the lake of fire and brimstone there will be similar "ordealizing" (basanos/torment) that Christians undergo here on earth, if only to convert those unsaved people...

But God does NOT give anyone more than he/she can bear (1 Cor. 10: 13 )


The orthodox belief that God vented His anger on Christ, and will re-constitute that same wrath on those who did not trust Jesus AND do it for all eternity to the unsaved is a very heinous doctrine.

God has put all our judgments on Him in calvary... He will judge those who did not die in Christ, but He integrates mercy and judgment because His judgments ARE mercy.

;)


Quaesitor

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Re: Jesus in Hell
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2010, 02:47:20 AM »
Quote
The problem is that if a spirit has unresolved issues in this life then they are going to carry that burden into the next life, and that sin seperates them from God.

Where do you get that TTank?

Offline thinktank

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Re: Jesus in Hell
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2010, 04:04:41 AM »
Jesus said that an unclean spirit wanders about looking for a house to dwell in, presumably to feed their lusts that they had a problem with when they died.

Also the bible says we are all wicked without christs atonment from Gods viewpoint.

The book of Job talks about a wicked man who dwells in desolate places where the building is about to collapse. There is no rest/peace for the wicked.


This might be interesting to some, but notice in Genesis God says to Adam to name the animals. So man names things, in the gospel there is a man with an unclean spirit and these spirits name themselves "legion" now legion is something that man named a cohort of roman warriors
 :2c:



Offline Cardinal

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Re: Jesus in Hell
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2010, 07:03:15 AM »
 :cloud9: @ TT......Little known by most of Christendom who are still looking for Him to appear in natural fluffy clouds, but true. A "divorce" happened at the scene of the death in the garden, ie. soul from spirit. Some have their eyes opened to it in this life, others are unaware of it until the gross body of flesh dissolves, revealing their divided nature.

The purpose of Christ's resurrection (whether in the body of flesh or not) is to bring the soul back into union with the spirit, IN Christ, as it was in the garden before the fall, when Adam walked with God in the cool of the day. Cool there runs into a meaning of breath, His breath is Spirit, which is Christ.

Paul talked about a resurrection that would/could occur while still in the body of flesh, ie. where corruption is swallowed up of incorruption. Christ is us, is the hope of glory; us in (or swallowed up OF) Christ, IS the glory. Paul said in Romans 8 this glory was getting ready to be revealed IN US, and that creation was waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Revealed there comes from the same word translated elsewhere as manifested, unveiled, appearing, REVELATION; the Greek word is "Apokalupsis", where we get the word, APOCALYPSE. Blessings.....

« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 07:07:49 AM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Jesus in Hell
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2010, 07:08:34 AM »


Pearls are earned layers of beautiful remembrance.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 07:18:41 AM by Beloved Servant »

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Jesus in Hell
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2010, 07:16:29 AM »



Oddly enough,
until yesterday,
I never knew,
that swine sh*t where they eat.

Now I understand.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Jesus in Hell
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2010, 08:45:57 AM »
 :cloud9: Now you know why He let the legion go into the swine. He didn't specify HOW they went in, did He? And if you know that, then you know why Lot was spared even after what APPEARED to be an UN-righteous act of giving his daughters (outer court, who are not SONS) over to the men (with demons/evil spirits in them) of Sodom.

And why He will spew those that are lukewarm (not pressing into become mature sons) out of His mouth, and into the outer court (realm of the flesh/daughters/children), where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, as their bands (things of darkness used to chastise and instruct) are increased, and they see what they could have had.

Whosoever committeth sin, is the servant of sin.....John 8:34  To sin is to miss the mark, the mark is the mind of Christ, the mind of Christ is revealed wisdom from above.

The word servant means.....

to bind tie, fasten
to bind, fasten with chains, to throw into chains
metaph.
Satan is said to bind a woman bent together by means of a demon, as his messenger, taking possession of the woman and preventing her from standing upright

In this day, we have "kings" of the earth with fleshly wisdom, who are not telling the people to awaken and put on Christ nor the times and the seasons according to the Lord, but instead are lulling them to sleep deeper with vain imaginations (as those that sleep in the night/darkness), instead of pressing in to AWAKE and follow the Lord and walk in the light as He is in the light.

Daniel 12:2 KJV
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake , some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Romans 13:11 KJV
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed .

Ephesians 5:14 KJV
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light .


All that has been, will be, there is nothing new under the sun.

2Kings 10:27 26 And they brought forth the images out of the house of Baal, and burned them. 27 And they brake down the image of Baal, and brake down the house of Baal, and made it a draught house (OUTHOUSE) unto this day. 28 Thus Jehu destroyed Baal out of Israel. 29 Howbeit from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, Jehu departed not from after them, to wit, the golden calves that were in Bethel, and that were in Dan. 

When you do a study on it, Jeroboam (name comes from a root meaning, to dim, or grow dark) was a wicked king who told the people to ignore the Feast of Tabernacles God had commanded all the SONS to attend, by:

 1) not going to Jerusalem as He had commanded, because "it was too much for them"
 2) not worshipping God in the prescribed manner of sacrifice, but 2 golden calves instead
 3) delaying the feast by one month, effectively causing the retention of the people's sins, since the Day of Atonement (which is during the Feast of Tabernacles) was the one day of the year when sins were not just covered by the blood, but REMOVED.

Wrong place, wrong pattern, wrong time = bands (things brought about for the purpose of correction and instruction) strengthened from disobedience.

Isaiah 28:22 Now therefore be ye not mockers , lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

Jehu was rewarded by God by Him declaring that his fourth generation would sit on the throne of Israel. This is a reversal of the earlier declaration of God that disobedience would carry generational curses unto the third and FOURTH generation. Unfortunately, Jehu didn't follow thru with his obedience to the end. Blessings....
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 05:59:12 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Jesus in Hell
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2010, 08:46:48 AM »


Pearls are earned layers of beautiful remembrance.

 :cloud9: Amen......Beautiful  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor