Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Discussions on Universal Salvation

Jesus came as the Savior - not just of some people, but of the entire cosmos

(1/9) > >>

anti_nietzsche:
IMO,
The bible calls Jesus the Savior of the world. The world means the entire universe, which had been changed metaphysically through Adam's first sin and through the sins we all commit. Think of a clockwork where every wheel had its purpose - that was the universe before the first sin. Man was supposed to be a wheel in that clockwork, but through his sin there came something which disturbed the entire clockwork, something like a breeze that contained sand. And this sand is something that affects all of us. But now, fast foreward to Jesus. He died for us. He died so that we could be dead to sin. Paul writes, the world got crucified in Christ. Basically, God allowed the "universe" to follow the natural consequences as if they wouldn't be checked, God allowed sin to kill even Himself. We could say the crucifixion was God allowing the end of everything to happen already. The universe got crucified. But then, Christ got resurrected. The New Earth and the New Heaven are already being created. Where previously there was so much sand, there is now the righteousness oil of Christ. And sin can't do much anymore because Christ shed his blood and the universe got crucified. How can a killer kill a dead person? That's not possible anymore. And Christ being God was alive even when He was dead, and by this He also went to Sheol. Christ said that those who believe in Him will live even when they die. When we believe in Christ we get crucified and we get made alive. Our baptism has killed us just like Christ was killed. But now we can walk in resurrection power, in the power of God.

Now we only have to wait for Christ's return ... through the crucifixion the universe became prepared for apoktastasis. When Christ returns the apoktastasis will come for good.

We have an enemy left, the devil. This is only an opinion and I can't prove it, but I think somehow the devil tries to escape the righteousness of Christ. The righteousness of Christ is contagious. Just like previously the sin of Adam was contagious, now the righteousness of Christ is contagious. And since Jesus crucified the universe with His own crucifixion, sin can't do anything against the universe anymore since its power to kill is made irrelevant. The devil has only so much time and he can't keep things up. Eventually the righteousness of Christ will reach him and he will be consumed like everyone else. And eventually he will get killed and stand up as a "new man" in the lake of fire where so many have to go into because of their stubborn and wicked foolishness. I think, and again this is only my opinion, the lake of fire is like a forced baptism. It's different from the tender water baptism where the noble can receive salvation in gentleness and in God's love. The lake of fire has love in it too, but there will also be torment. But eventually those in it "die", whereas the torment will not cease until they "die" - until the baptism is complete. The torment is aionious - it is lasting always, it will not stop until it has killed those in the lake of fire that they would also start out new.

At that point Christ can come back. Note that in the book of Revelation it places Jesus return at the very end of the book. The Great White Throne judgment happens BEFORE Jesus comes back, not after that. That means, we will all be saved when Jesus returns. The forced baptism of the Lake of Fire has happened, there is nobody left whom Jesus could have to deny. That's the blessing of the book of Revelation. Jesus during His ministry did not have access to this knowledge, that's why He said not even the Son of God knew the day and the hour. But later on after the crucifixion and after the resurrection, we got the Revelation, and we don't have to fear a violent and destructive end of the world.

So we can say this with a joyful anticipation, that Jesus return will make everything right and that our God would prepare everything for the coming of our Groom, that every soul be saved before that and made ready for Jesus in righteousness, love and peace.

thinktank:

--- Quote ---We have an enemy left, the devil. This is only an opinion and I can't prove it, but I think somehow the devil tries to escape the righteousness of Christ. The righteousness of Christ is contagious. Just like previously the sin of Adam was contagious, now the righteousness of Christ is contagious. And since Jesus crucified the universe with His own crucifixion, sin can't do anything against the universe anymore since its power to kill is made irrelevant. The devil has only so much time and he can't keep things up. Eventually the righteousness of Christ will reach him and he will be consumed like everyone else. And eventually he will get killed and stand up as a "new man" in the lake of fire where so many have to go into because of their stubborn and wicked foolishness. I think, and again this is only my opinion, the lake of fire is like a forced baptism. It's different from the tender water baptism where the noble can receive salvation in gentleness and in God's love. The lake of fire has love in it too, but there will also be torment. But eventually those in it "die", whereas the torment will not cease until they "die" - until the baptism is complete. The torment is aionious - it is lasting always, it will not stop until it has killed those in the lake of fire that they would also start out new.
--- End quote ---


I agree with this. I don't agree that Jesus comes after the great white throne.

To me Jesus returns possibly 3 times.

First is rev 6 on the white horse.
second is during the last trumpet rapture
Third is during the battle of armageddon, against the beast
Fourth is the Gog and Magog war after 1000 years.


anti_nietzsche:
IMO,
That can't be true because Jesus can't return 3 times, He can only come back once because after His return everything's finished.

The book of Revelation describes how it will be. The New Jerusalem will come, the new civilization, preparing everyone for the day when all the faithful will say "Come, Lord Jesus!", and then Jesus will come back. Right now Jesus couldn't come because mankind is not at peace and not at all believing in Christ.

thinktank:

--- Quote from: anti_nietzsche on November 11, 2012, 08:08:49 PM ---IMO,
That can't be true because Jesus can't return 3 times, He can only come back once because after His return everything's finished.

The book of Revelation describes how it will be. The New Jerusalem will come, the new civilization, preparing everyone for the day when all the faithful will say "Come, Lord Jesus!", and then Jesus will come back. Right now Jesus couldn't come because mankind is not at peace and not at all believing in Christ.

--- End quote ---

No you missed a few chapters. Jesus returns on a white horse at the battle of armageddon. Other scriptures say that Jesus returns with thousands of saints to do war against the beast. This poor peasant can finally become a knight:)


ded2daworld:
Didn't Jesus say everything was finished when He was about to die on the cross?
Anti-neech said, "Right now Jesus couldn't come because mankind is not at peace and not at all believing in Christ."
IMO, The bible is pretty clear that mankind will NOT be at peace and very few will be believing at his return.

"Will the Son of Man find any faith when he returns?"

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

Go to full version