Isn't It Time For Some Meat?

[rockclimber]

This came from a commentary that i read. Your thoughts please.
I know that many of our public schools just promote kids out of a grade and into the next one just to keep them moving; however, if they've not learned anything what good does that do? Tell me, what's the pint or benefit of that? The church on the other hand keeps people in Kindergarten or whatever elementary grade they are in. For centuries, the Roman Catholic Church didn't even want people to read the Bible, in some times and places they actually forbid it; and spoke and wrote in Latin so no one could understand it. Talk about control issues! Here's some other examples.

 
Hebrews 5:12 addresses this issue of staying on the nipple and not learning how to eat with a knife and a fork. The metaphor is milk vs. meat of course. And here are three comparisons.

1-There is the religion of the LETTER and then the religion of the SPIRIT!

2-There's the religion of EXTERNAL rules and laws and the INTERNAL religion of the HEART!

3-There's the religion of EXCLUSION and the religion of INCLUSION!

If the laity doesn't push the clergy the church will get stuck in traditions. So much of church and government efforts are to maintain and keep the status quo. Don't rock the boat. Let's not try something new. We don't want to get led astray. Exactly! We'd rather not be led or to pretend that we're being led and go nowhere because change is unsettling: change brings regression. The pressure is always towards conformity and immobility.

The church can only exist, be sustained, on death and rebirth.

But, few want to die. But we must if we're to keep the faith alive. It's encumbent on all of us to articulate the Christian faith in a contemporary, modern, and meaningful way. In so doing we will also discover new concepts, new language, and new realms of the Spirit that will enliven our faith, the faith, and hand the baton (or carrot) to the next generation a little further into the rabbit hole than we went.

[martincisneros]

Find me a Christian that's genuinely done with the milk bottle.  I know of ministers that had a Mandate From Heaven to focus on just one aspect of the elementary principles of the doctrine of Christ and they were faithful for over 6 decades in discharging their duty.  Yet it's still stuff that the Body of Christ as a whole is an absolute joke on.  It's stuff they're still using really bad bathroom humor regarding such sacred truths.

The meat's not hard to come by at all.  I know a teacher or two that can hook you up if you genuinely think that you're ready.  But finding a Christian that's genuinely done with the milk bottle, uh, well...

Hopefully in my life time...

[hopeful]

The church on the other hand keeps people in Kindergarten or whatever elementary grade they are in.

Thank God that the Good Shepherd knows how to grow sheep!
He knows just what "grade" of grass we need- which valley...
He knows what will nourish us at the right time and He knows when to make us abstain from "food" in order to purge us.
He is a Good, Good Shepherd.

 

[GraceFull]

The church on the other hand keeps people in Kindergarten or whatever elementary grade they are in.

Thank God that the Good Shepherd knows how to grow sheep!
He knows just what "grade" of grass we need- which valley...
He knows what will nourish us at the right time and He knows when to make us abstain from "food" in order to purge us.
He is a Good, Good Shepherd.

 

Amen, Hopeful! I trust HIS work within us to provide us with what meat we need, the portion we need, and the discarding of the bones. Revelation of spiritual truth comes ONLY from the Holy Spirit, in His perfect time, and in His perfect way - and thank God for that.

[gatheredfragments]

i think a diet containing both is necessary

after all, meat takes a longer time to digest, it requires some real chewing!

milk on the other hand can be a quickly sipped pick me up


I've bitten off more than I could chew a couple times regarding meat, and had to wonder if I were being gluttoness!

[hopeful]

or... I take a portion of meat not out of hunger
but to impress others and then proceed to choke on it.   

[giftsimple]

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,  he  shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and  ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

[reFORMer]

Quote from initial post:  If the laity doesn't push the clergy the church will get stuck in traditions.

In the nature of the new covenant and in the writings of the New Testament there is NO "Order of Laymen!" This is the largest order in all the denominations. They have two important rules. 1.) "The Layman" doesn't know what's best for himself; and, 2.) "The Layman" is not allowed to influence other Laymen. This should be less controversial for those who consider the Holy Bible our rule for faith and conduct. Some things are more obviously in, or, not in the Word. Use concordances to implement the authority of the Scripture; not what man says God meant to say, but the actual words chosen by the Holy Ghost. It is, or, is not written, verified from the original languages.
 

Not of the letter?
Isaiah 8:20:  "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
It has been said: "All word:  dry up.  All spirit:  blow up.  Word and spirit:  Grow up."

Inclusion?

Psalm 15
A Psalm of David.
1 LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.


The life that the seed embodies is carried on a DNA "ladder of life" message.  Alter the message and another life form results, if it even survives to live at all.  The anointing is upon the Word of God that is formed in us.  If our flesh is not subjected to the will of that Word then we are not in accordance with the anointing.  The living word is reliably attested to in the Holy Scriptures.  No other writing has the words of life.  Who sets aside or defies those holy words has no dawning in him.

"There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.  My dove, my undefiled is but one..." (Song of Songs 6:8-9)  The virgins are in the house but they have no interpenetration of the word.  They're available to Him but not hot with desire for Him.  They have each other for company.  The concubines know His embrace.  They've received seed and conceived; but, because they do not run lawfully that they may obtain, they are not in line for the inheritance. (2 Tim 2:5)  The exact Image is not fully formed in them.  The Queens bear the Manchild who will rule the nations with a rod of iron.  Of course, it is all only one body, that of God's beloved.  She is set apart from the rest of humanity.  The bridal chamber does not encompass the entire world.

Revelation 22:14-17:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

[Bethany]

I agree Rockclimber-

We need to be ever changing in order to be sustainable. Only when we change (in the blinking of an eye) will we ever become unchangeable. We are not in his likeness yet , but being made in his likeness. This does indeed require meat. How does th meat come to the babe?

The Spirit is like the wind, no one knows when and where it will blow (and at what strength). We ought to be praying for a greater annointing on the body and be careful not to get caught up in pride and arrogance when our eyes are less blinded than our neighbors, because that in itself is blinding. We should rather be praying for the unveiling of the spirit to our neighbor and treating him as we want to be treated, which is part of the unveiling. Faith without action is void of hope. Let us not grumble against our "less enlightened" neighbor and instead share our meat with him!

Bethany

[Kept]

Hey Bethany 

reading your post I was reminded of how mothers will grind the meat up so that she can feed her little one that does not yet have a full set of teeth but needs the protein.

kept

[martincisneros]

or... I take a portion of meat not out of hunger
but to impress others and then proceed to choke on it.   

Just re-read my previous post on this thread and was a little embarrassed by the harshness of it and I was going to edit it.  And the Holy Spirit stopped me saying, "No, leave it! You're not the One that said that!!"  So whatever.

Sometimes, it's not even to impress others that we take of the deeper aspects of the Word.  But to consistently feed on what we've received and practice it for the rest of our lives - without choking on it - that's the feat I've yet to see anybody, myself included, fully carry out.

I'm not sure if there's ever a "time" for meat as this thread is entitled with the question regarding.  But all of the epistles to the Churches say that strife brings in confusion and every evil work, in addition to stunting spiritual growth.  1Corinthians is all about what that Church couldn't receive because of their self-interest, pride, strife, and raising the bar on worldliness higher than the world had it - which is what the spirit of debate will absolutely always do (Isaiah 58 et. al.).  Hebrews talks about getting caught up with too many distracting influences to where we're regressing from the level we'd grown to simply because "our plate was too full" with all of whatever that we each think that we ought to be doing with the day to day, to where we're disobeying what we know.  Hebrews yells at those Christians that it's originally addressed to that they should have been teachers, but required milk again.  That thickens the plot for me and makes me want to research if there's ever a level where if you don't start teaching, then the Word in your life not only can't come into areas of richer harvests, but that you'll get caught up so much with the affliction, persecution, cares of this world, the deceitful of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in and they'll choke the Word and it becomes unfruitful.  Speaking the truth in love as a necessary precursor to further spiritual growth??  and as a necessary defense against [personally] regressing to the milk bottle???

[Redlettervoice]

Quote from initial post: 
In the nature of the new covenant and in the writings of the New Testament there is NO "Order of Laymen!" This is the largest order in all the denominations. They have two important rules. 1.) "The Layman" doesn't know what's best for himself; and, 2.) "The Layman" is not allowed to influence other Laymen. This should be less controversial for those who consider the Holy Bible our rule for faith and conduct. Some things are more obviously in, or, not in the Word. Use concordances to implement the authority of the Scripture; not what man says God meant to say, but the actual words chosen by the Holy Ghost. It is, or, is not written, verified from the original languages.
 

Not of the letter?
Isaiah 8:20:  "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
It has been said: "All word:  dry up.  All spirit:  blow up.  Word and spirit:  Grow up."

Inclusion?

Psalm 15
A Psalm of David.
1 LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.


The life that the seed embodies is carried on a DNA "ladder of life" message.  Alter the message and another life form results, if it even survives to live at all.  The anointing is upon the Word of God that is formed in us.  If our flesh is not subjected to the will of that Word then we are not in accordance with the anointing.  The living word is reliably attested to in the Holy Scriptures.  No other writing has the words of life.  Who sets aside or defies those holy words has no dawning in him.

"There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.  My dove, my undefiled is but one..." (Song of Songs 6:8-9)  The virgins are in the house but they have no interpenetration of the word.  They're available to Him but not hot with desire for Him.  They have each other for company.  The concubines know His embrace.  They've received seed and conceived; but, because they do not run lawfully that they may obtain, they are not in line for the inheritance. (2 Tim 2:5)  The exact Image is not fully formed in them.  The Queens bear the Manchild who will rule the nations with a rod of iron.  Of course, it is all only one body, that of God's beloved.  She is set apart from the rest of humanity.  The bridal chamber does not encompass the entire world.

Revelation 22:14-17:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Hello ReFORMer..........thought this deserved to be repeated!

I wonder if people will reREAD this and see what you've said here concerning  The difference in the Queens and the Bride......also what you said about leaving the letter to "blow up" ha...all spirit!

What a needy bunch we all are.  If the truth was known....the Lord has to create HIM a bride! Just
like EVE was taken OUT of Adam and fixed all up "before" she was presented to him.

Goes deeeeeeeeeep, I know.




If anyone thinks you are just full of revelation, and will get puffed up over it,
Well, God has twenty eleven thorns to prevent that.........and I suppose YOU have "experienced"
some things to even say all this.......blessings to you.

I keep thinking of David's words when he said "I have seen thy perfection, Oh Lord, but thy
commandments are "exceedingly broad."  Sure agree on that!

[PaulTheJesusFreak]

Exactly!

 I think so many people get stuck on the milk that they never advance to eating meat! They keep learning the same concepts over, and over again. Church becomes the same, year after tear, generation after generation, and no real meat is adding to the body! We need good, spiritual meat to survive or we will be dead. Milk won't sustain us fully forever.

[martincisneros]

It's not so much that people are learning the same truths over and over and over again.  The Bible says they're only deceiving themselves if they're not doing it, in the Book of James.  As I said earlier in this thread, some ministers have had the direct command from the Lord to only teach certain things until the Church caught on, and unfortunately that wound up being their 60 or so years of ministry 'cause the Church never caught on and even in their infantile state started cracking jokes, making generalizations, and saying very degrading things about aspects of truth/Christ that they weren't willing to become participants in the divine nature with.  You can hear the truth until you're decieved by it.  Again, pointing you in the direction of the epistle of James where a head full of knowledge doesn't demonstrate your faith, but faith with corresponding actions winds up being the qualifier on Hebrews 11:6. 

The Holy Spirit was trying to start talking to me this last week again from Mark 4 about the laws of gradual spiritual growth from Mark 4, but I was too mentally preoccupied to really pull aside and pay attention to what He was getting at.  So, I'm trying to play catch up this weekend with the Lord on the laws of the harvest.  If people aren't doing the milk, the meat will damn them to Hell 'cause they won't do that either and will be obligated to the greater accountability of it.  But when you call them on the carpet about it, according to Hebrews 6 it'll be impossible to get them to repent.  They've tasted, so they think they know all of the answers, although they'll have none of it ruling over their lives.  So, they'll wanna kill their teachers so that the vineyard can be theirs'.  And what does the Scripture say that His response to that will be?  It keeps me on my knees that I'd never become a builder that's rejected the Stone that's the Chief Cornerstone.