Author Topic: Isn't it amazing how abandoning a belief in eternal Hell is the equivalent...  (Read 1720 times)

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martincisneros

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Isn't it amazing how abandoning a belief in eternal Hell [in the eyes of too many Christians] is the equivalent of abandoning faith in the Living Jesus, His atoning/blessing/cleansing/remiting Blood, repentance, good works, sanctification unto obedience and holiness, His ascension and seating at God's right hand, and His return to judge the living and the dead at the resurrection?

All they have to look at is whether or not you believe in eternal separation from God and suddenly to them that's the equivalent of your level of belief in sin, cleansing from sin through the Blood of Christ, being drawn to God through the Blood of Christ (Ephesians 2:13), and whether or not you're going to live a holy and evangelizing life that's fruitful in good works and intimate with the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit!

Is this not the equivalent of saying that if there's no eternal Hell that there's nothing beautiful and desireable about Jesus Christ and that if there's no eternal Hell then His Blood does next to nothing in our lives when it's at long last applied?  Is this not the equivalent of [unconsciously] saying that if there is no eternal Hell then God should go to Hell in their view?

I'm personally thankful that my sins have been remited and that I've been made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, that I'm seated in heavenly places in Christ, that whatsoever I ask the Father in Jesus' Name He gives me, and that His Kingdom is not needlessly divided for all of eternity between the lost and the righteous that loved them in this life! 

I'm personally thankful that the gates of Hell won't prevail against the Church or the revelation that Jesus is the Anointed, the Son of God.  I'm personally thankful to have the Keys of the Kingdom and to be ruling/reigning in life through the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness that are mine through Christ Jesus.  I'm personally thankful that I've overcome all things through Jesus Christ, even if there were neither an eternal nor a temporary Hell. :Sparkletooth:


« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 02:09:50 AM by martincisneros »

Standardbearer

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I have not been here in some time as I was trying to defend the Glorious Victorious Gospel at another "Christian" forum. This one was very much Eternal Torment and watching for the "Rapture" and very hostile towards the few of us who tried to share our views. I pointed out that they are all similar in that when an outsider tries to share something other than what the majority believes, they are met with scorn and eventually they will lock the thread. Not only that, they will sometimes ban the newcomer. Well guess what? I was banned from yet another "Christian" Forum and told to go back to the other forum where we "can all agree how sad and deceived all the rest of us are who do not agree with you and your views."

This attitude only confirms the truth, that they are narrowminded bigots who display the same view of the god they worship. They take on the same attitude as the stern, unforgiving, unmerciful, unkind and tormenting god they want to believe in. Here, it is so totally opposite and refreshing. I thank God for fellowship with like-minded believers. It is so sad for me to see how they treat those who differ in doctrine, especially because I am reminded that I was once as they are. I can only pray that the Lord will open their eyes, because I certainly cannot. As a dear friend reminded me, I can't pry open their eyes that they are forcefully trying to keep shut and expect them to be thankful.

Offline fullarmor2

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You have to remember,   telling a mainstreamer  (hey, I think I just coined a new word!)    that there is no ET is the same thing as telling them their Bible is false. And if you try to explain that the Bible doesn't mean what they think, you will get accused of twisting the scripture!
For all those who live in the shadow of death,  a glorious light has dawned!  And for all those who stumble in the darkness,   behold,   your light has come!!

Offline jabcat

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Are you guys trying to tell me "believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that there is an eternal hell and thou shalt be saved" isn't in the Bible? :angry1:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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You have to remember,   telling a mainstreamer  (hey, I think I just coined a new word!)    that there is no ET is the same thing as telling them their Bible is false. And if you try to explain that the Bible doesn't mean what they think, you will get accused of twisting the scripture!

I think mainstreamers must be trapped in their own words.
If you speak your thought out loud the first minute they run.
But by using their on favorite verses against them they are more forced to listen.
But eventually you have to use the word aion.
Because the only a-u-t-h-o-r-i-s-e-d Bible on the planet KJV doesn't use that word you obviously use a satanic version of the Bible.
But still in some cases you have planted that 'mustard seed'
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

LaurieJo

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More sad than amazing when they can't see how silly it is to say Jesus' death was for nothing if Hell isn't ET.

Debating seems fruitless....when shown scriptures supporting UR, they either ignore them or state "out of context", yet rarely explain what they see the context to be.  Showing them a likely context for the verses they quote to support their view of ET seems to be the point where the ad hominem attacks enter in.

It is amazing how the differing camps do unite for the commom cause of torturing unbelievers....sigh.

Offline jabcat

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More sad than amazing when they can't see how silly it is to say Jesus' death was for nothing if Hell isn't ET.

Debating seems fruitless....when shown scriptures supporting UR, they either ignore them or state "out of context", yet rarely explain what they see the context to be.  Showing them a likely context for the verses they quote to support their view of ET seems to be the point where the ad hominem attacks enter in.

It is amazing how the differing camps do unite for the commom cause of torturing unbelievers....sigh.

Yeah, I believe that's why we're told in I Tim to "charge these things and teach", but I also believe as you say, we can't make them "see"...that's up to God to reveal when He chooses...He may not either be ready for them to see yet (because "especially those that believe" indicates that especially means 'set apart for a specific purpose'-- God's purpose!), or maybe God knows they are just not ready/able to see yet...However, God does still work miracles.  :Sparkletooth:  God's blessing, James.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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but I also believe as you say, we can't make them "see"...that's up to God to reveal when He chooses...He may not either be ready for them to see yet (because "especially those that believe" indicates that especially means 'set apart for a specific purpose'-- God's purpose!), or maybe God knows they are just not ready/able to see yet...However, God does still work miracles.

The ETs say exactly the same about URs  :laughing7:

People work towards a goal.
If that goal is ET then the goal can only be reached by BBQ-verses.

Same in non religious life.
Politics. Music. Movie. etc
All have their fans.
And everything bad you say about the above mentioned is slander, lack of information etc.

Once a goal is set it's hard to change it. Especially if your 'opponent' thinks s/he is in the saved/elect group.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

martincisneros

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Are you guys trying to tell me "believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that there is an eternal hell and thou shalt be saved" isn't in the Bible? :angry1:
I'm surprised that no Augustinian ever wrote it in there as one of the verses that gets contested by translators these days!  For those that believe in eternal Hell, 9 times out of 10, that belief is more important than the virgin birth, perfect life, Blood of Christ, resurrection of Christ, literal present day Kingship of Jesus Christ, and the ministry of reconciliation.  He can have no present day Kingship in their view without an Eternal Hell because they're worshippers of Zeus, Hera, Jupiter, Mars, Aphrodite, Artemis, and Hades and not of YHVH. :sigh: After all, a good God needs a good Hell.

Offline jabcat

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After all, a good God needs a good Hell. 
   :mlaugh:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline reFORMer

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It is only a different view in what could be called eschatology.  (More exactly, it's a difference in teleology, a view concerning the distant future.)  Many who believe in ET don't understand many things about a Biblical faith.  Many have only a cartoon version.  Spiritual maturity doesn't come just by the passing of years.

The big difference it made for me was freeing me to allow the love of God.  I thought I had that when I believed in ceaseless torture for ever; but, now it is experientially obvious it makes a great deal of difference in loving, specially the ungody...even myself. 

I believe at some point it is necessary to understand the true nature of God in order to advance in the experience and knowledge of God.  You can only build so much without parts of the foundation before things break down.  Even though one is advanced in certain specific things, it is all tied together and one cannot get beyond certain barriers while deceived.  Greater maturity cannot be achieved without greater revelation.  God dwells in unapproachable light.  We are lights of the world.  We can't get brighter without more light.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!