Author Topic: I guess it comes down to this.  (Read 7755 times)

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Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #125 on: August 20, 2009, 06:04:53 PM »
I told my wife that if she loved me she would cut the computer cord. ha ha ha
You are still on-line  :pointlaugh:

Quote
I just think if God is, then there is the Spirit (God) who works via our common sense and other areas.
Could be true. I can't really know/verify if (all) my thoughts are really formed by the chemical process in my head...

I'm on my computer at work!!!! But you got a point, she didn't cut the cord at home! Hmmmmmmm. Now, on top of cogs stuff, now you got me wondering if my wife really loves me!!!! What a day!

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #126 on: August 20, 2009, 06:07:16 PM »
Good stuff Tony!!!!!

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #127 on: August 20, 2009, 06:51:24 PM »
I'm bored.

Where is leecog when you need him, her or it?

Just kidding gang.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #128 on: August 20, 2009, 06:57:39 PM »
Just rent a early Sam Raimi movie. Considering the plot it might be an alias for CoG  :winkgrin:
1981 was absolutely his best year :icon_jokercolor:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Doc

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #129 on: August 20, 2009, 10:48:49 PM »
I just ran across this at the Evangelical Universalist site, and thought it would be appropriate to paste it here:


I thought I'd put forth the rhetorical logic of St. Paul's address to the philosophers of the Mars Hill forum in Athens (aka the Areopagus; Acts 17:16-34). (I mentioned this in the body of my document critiquing Professor De Young's critique of The Shack, but I don't see that I've posted it anywhere more obviously online yet.)


Paul is saying that he has come to proclaim to them new knowledge, not about "strange demons" (as some of the philosophers had wondered, being unable to quite cipher out what Paul was talking about in the marketplaces), but about "the Unknowable God" whom they are already willing to acknowledge (along with all the other idols collected in the city).

The emphasis here, for our purposes, is on St. Paul's rhetorical use of "all". Consider the developing line of thought:

1.) This God makes the world (kosmos, all natural creation) and all that is in it.
2.) He gives life and breath (or maybe spirit) to all.
3.) He makes every nation of humankind, to be dwelling on every surface of the earth.
4.) He does this (and appoints the setting of the seasons and the bounds of their dwelling, probably referring to death in the latter case) for them (i.e. all of them) to be seeking Him if they consequently grope for Him.
5.) And they may be finding Him, for to be sure He inheres "not far from each one of us"; for in Him we live and move and exist. (Thus it isn't like they have to grope for something far off).
6.) Condoning (literally "winking at") times of ignorance, God is now charging mankind that all everywhere are to repent.
7.) For He assigns a day in which He is about to be judging (all) the inhabited earth in righteousness...
8.) ... offering faith to all.

Unfortunately, at this point St. Paul mentions that God will be doing this by "the Man whom He specifies, raising him of the dead"; which leads to jeering and a breakdown of his presentation. (Though some are willing to hear him again on this, and some converts are eventually made, one being Dionysius the Areopagite--traditionally believed to be the first bishop of Athens--and a woman named Damaris.)

The grammatic thrust of those last two points are connected: a day is coming when God will be judging the earth in righteousness and (per the grammar) in that judgment He shall be offering faith to all: the same 'all' St. Paul has been collectively talking about throughout his speech.

This, to say the least, is not what most non-universalists are expecting from the judgment of the Final Day. It could of course still be consonant with some Arminian soteriologies--C. S. Lewis would have no problem with it--but at the very least the grammar indicates what amounts to a post-mortem (and post resurrection) offer of 'saving faith' at the final judgment.

It might be rather more than merely giving people a chance to 'believe', too: God is offering faith. That's an action of God, something does for us from the inside--an action restricted only to the 'elect' in Calvinism. But the faith God is offering is God's own faithfulness; the faithfulness of the Persons for one another, but also the faithfulness of God to us.

As St. Paul writes in his epistle to the Romans: does the unfaithfulness of sinners to God, annul the faithfulness of God? May it never be!! God is faithful to us even when we are unfaithful to Him.

posted by Jason Pratt.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #130 on: August 21, 2009, 06:39:25 PM »
People, This is only My thinking.
New Haven and New Earth. i.e. All things, earth/all things made from atoms of God's making, man, plant, rock, air, space, and all other things you can list.

First thing is not to think of Revelation as the last book in the bible, because Cor, goes much further into the future than any book of Revelation.

If you want a comprehensive study in that book, look up J.P. Eby at Sigler Ministries.
Now as to the here and now/ after life.
The promise was that The Anointing would DO certain things, and He Has Done Those Things...

2009 years ago the father raised His Son out of death, and Finished all Death, since then all things have been in life, all made alive in Christ. There is no more sin, the only sin is the sin that you make of your own Law Making and the following of those Laws and the braking of those self-made laws. We are LIVING IN CHRIST'S THOUSAND YEAR REIGNS NOW. It started when death was destroyed 2009 years ago.

Revelation of God ( Matt. 16:18 "upon") is the New System of things, When all things come to an understanding that a higher power controls things, "They" start there own quest to understand.

God is like this to me in the physical things,  in all things there are atoms, in all things there are 2 things, sold and space, but there is an unseen third thing, energy. This energy is in everything. In every corner of the known universe and beyond. This energy is connected like a thought process in a brain. His Brain.

There is a process going on that will bring a close to the reign of Jesus "His" Christ, When all will be IN all. When all things are dragged to the understanding that God IS and God IS Love. Then We will be Home in Him and what goes on after All is, together again is HIS concern. After life? there can never be an afterlife because the use of the word says that life has to end, and life IN God never ends. What God does with His life/us, is His design.

Summery, All sin is ended at the cross, only self-reinforced-delusions i.e.  Law/sin/death.
 Everyone will come to love God somehow-somewhere in "time", When time ends, there will only be God/us.

The new heavens and earth is NOW. Since life was given to all things when His Son Did It For Us whether or not we want to except that death was destroyed so long ago.

Lee Damboise II

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #131 on: August 21, 2009, 09:12:59 PM »
Lee, would you quit posting that same page? I'm sorry but I keep thinking something new is posted and now I've seen your post about 6 times. We'll get the message if you just post it once in the appropriate thread.

You da man!

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #132 on: August 21, 2009, 10:03:04 PM »
Will do, thanks, I just wanted the other lee guy to talk,

Offline Cardinal

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #133 on: August 22, 2009, 12:29:45 AM »
Will do, thanks, I just wanted the other lee guy to talk,

 :cloud9: I could be wrong, but somehow I don't think that will be a problem for awhile......... :winkgrin: Welcome to the Tent........Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #134 on: August 22, 2009, 12:36:09 AM »
Will do, thanks, I just wanted the other lee guy to talk,

 :cloud9: I could be wrong, but somehow I don't think that will be a problem for awhile......... :winkgrin:
Did the crew install a firewall? :bottlebump:

« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 12:45:45 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #135 on: August 22, 2009, 12:56:32 AM »
 :cloud9: Not that I'm aware of, but I do like that new model you're displaying there.  :laughing7: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline willieH

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #136 on: August 22, 2009, 09:14:42 AM »
willieH: Hi Doc... :hithere:

This guy is a LIAR, one way or the other... to begin with he starts this thread saying that he DOESN'T quote anyone, and in several places, THAT is all he does!

He says he adheres strictly and ONLY to the Scriptures, but NEVER quotes them, only blabs his own (or someone elses) words...  :thumbdown:

Pay him no mind... He and his words are tainted...

His PURPOSED disrespect of brother CLAYPOT, is evidence of who "he" IS and what "he" represents...

doc,

oops an honest mistake..im not the greatest speller but sorry to disappoint you im just lee.

Blatantly lying...

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to type the word CLAYPOT...

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #137 on: August 22, 2009, 03:57:51 PM »
Being I noticed my 'label' here, and I thank you, Willie, for, what I feel, is a protective arm around me.................I have a couple thoughts about coglee....

First of all I have a bit of a suspicion that coglee does not care about God and Scripture one way or another. I think it's possible it just came on to cause havoc and maybe start something that would grow and fester and cause major harm. I guess like a virus. I think it's possible it came to plant a virus and leave.

This leads to my second thought. I think what coglee did was good in the sense it stirred up the pot a bit, got some dust off the shelves, and caused us to see some things anew. I know in some ways it did wonders for me. I mean it. I am conversing with a few of my 'ET' friends with a new energy and patience and, hopefully, love, than I have for a long time.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #138 on: August 22, 2009, 06:00:33 PM »
 :cloud9: I think it comes down to this. Cog/lee probably thought that everyone on this board had just stumbled in here, and read enough to be "contaminated". He did not realize that if the new member posts alone are any indication, nearly without exception including myself, the Holy Spirit revealed Him as the Savior of all, before ever coming on this site.

Most seem to have come here to find strength in numbers, comfort that they indeed did hear the Lord, and a haven where they can grow in understanding without the servants of religion carting them off to Haman's gallows for what they perceive (and rightly so) as a threat to their never ending kingdom of fear-mongering to gain numbers for personal gain/spirit of Core. If this site "contaminates", may it "contaminate" Cog/lee, with the Truth of His Word and His love for all. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline onlytruth

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #139 on: August 22, 2009, 10:51:50 PM »
Amen to that...cardinal :icon_king:

Offline reFORMer

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #140 on: August 23, 2009, 07:59:20 AM »
Right, Cardinal!  And I know that the deepest teachers I've encountered understand the nature of the true God Who will have all mankind to be saved as part of their foundation.  There can't be very much of a house built for His Presence without a true foundation.  I am seeking fellowship, not only of like minds, but with those that are more accurately adjusted to the Truth, so that the revelation of God in which we delight, might be more abundantly manifest.  I love God and I love to be around those who are letting more of Him through.  Right now I feel some kind of ongoing soft explosion...
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 08:32:05 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Pierac

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #141 on: August 23, 2009, 08:10:34 AM »
I told my wife that if she loved me she would cut the computer cord. ha ha ha
You are still on-line  :pointlaugh:

Quote
I just think if God is, then there is the Spirit (God) who works via our common sense and other areas.
Could be true. I can't really know/verify if (all) my thoughts are really formed by the chemical process in my head...

I'm on my computer at work!!!! But you got a point, she didn't cut the cord at home! Hmmmmmmm. Now, on top of cogs stuff, now you got me wondering if my wife really loves me!!!! What a day!

cp

Sorry, I 'm off topic but you got me thinking of a joke I saw on the net...  My Living Will..

"Last night my sister and I were sitting in the den and I said to her, 'I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle to keep me alive. That would be no quality of life at all. If that ever happens, just pull the plug.'

So she got up, unplugged the computer, and threw out my wine."



 :laughing7:
Paul

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #142 on: August 23, 2009, 09:29:48 AM »
Luckily Claypot is filled with water :laughing7:
But someday Jesus stops by and turns it into wine.
That will be the day Claypot stops posting.
 :beach:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #143 on: August 23, 2009, 04:12:18 PM »
Right, Cardinal!  And I know that the deepest teachers I've encountered understand the nature of the true God Who will have all mankind to be saved as part of their foundation.  There can't be very much of a house built for His Presence without a true foundation.  I am seeking fellowship, not only of like minds, but with those that are more accurately adjusted to the Truth, so that the revelation of God in which we delight, might be more abundantly manifest.  I love God and I love to be around those who are letting more of Him through.  Right now I feel some kind of ongoing soft explosion...

 :cloud9: I know what you mean reFORMer........there is definitely something going on in the Spirit right now.........Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Cardinal

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #144 on: August 23, 2009, 04:13:40 PM »
Sorry, I 'm off topic but you got me thinking of a joke I saw on the net...  My Living Will..

"Last night my sister and I were sitting in the den and I said to her, 'I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle to keep me alive. That would be no quality of life at all. If that ever happens, just pull the plug.'

So she got up, unplugged the computer, and threw out my wine."

 :laughing7:
Paul

 :cloud9: Good one, Paul!  :grin: :thumbsup: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

333

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #145 on: August 24, 2009, 03:21:36 PM »
Quote
ron,

i kinda see what your saying. but for your sin to be forgiven you have to exercise faith in Jesus' sacrifice for your sins. just because Christ went to the cross  does not give everyone their sins forgiven. for that to be reality you have to believe. but like i said not all people who die are dying believers with their sins forgiven in Christ. that is where my question comes in. where in the bible does God grant repentance and faith for forgiveness of their sin after they die?

read first and second Peter.  It clearly shows those who died "in their sins" in the flood at the time of Noah, who were kept in spiritual prisons till after the crucifixtion of our Lord on the cross , was preached to by Jesus after He was crucified and went into to spiritual prisons and He preached to them about "His shed blood and how it was shed for the sins of the world". Which by the way included theirs.

Gilbert

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #146 on: August 24, 2009, 04:34:09 PM »
Hi! 333

Your observation is incredibly enlightened.

Now we know what the condition was of those who existed before the arrival of Jesus and the preaching of His Gospel. All these people went to the realm of death, to Sheol, the righteous as well as the unrighteous, the believers as well as the unbelievers. The rich man was there, but also Abraham and Lazarus the beggar, although there was a deep gulf between them.

Among the righteous in Sheol, however, there were. also those who during their lives had looked forward to the 'testimony' they had received from God. Abel comes to mind, a man who must have thought about the forgiveness of his sins and reached the conclusion that this could only be brought about by the shedding of blood. Also Abraham, who sought an unseen city, built on the foundation of faith, whose builder and maker is God. The prophets also searched and inquired who these spiritual people might be, which the Spirit in them was speaking of.

All these godly inclined people would reach the final purpose of their faith, that is the salvation of their souls, (lPet 1:9,10), and would be the first to take up their place in the heavenly paradise. These saints were taken out of Sheol at the resurrection of Jesus and replanted in the garden of God.

After their inner men, that is with their spiritual bodies, these saints were in Sheol, the realm of the dead. They were raised, that is, they received a sign that the time had come to rise and start a new period of life. After Jesus' resurrection they left Sheol and went to 'the holy city' which, according to Revelation 2:12, is the New Jerusalem. Here they appeared to many. Being inhabitants of the New Jerusalem these saints manifested themselves on earth in a resurrection body in the same way Jesus did, "And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many".

There is yet a second occasion similar to this event spoken of in the Book of Revelation 22:14,15, "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates".
Hades, the realm of the dead, contains these two primary groups (among others):
Those of the Old Covenant who were not transferred to the heavenly paradise when Jesus rose from the dead, although they had served God; and those who never had the opportunity to know the true God and never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ, yet did righteousness and sought for good.

John saw how the dead of all ages, except those who shared in the first resurrection and those who were transplanted into the heavenly paradise, now rise from Hades. Then it is fulfilled: "The hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment", (John 5:28-29). Daniel said this about the second resurrection: "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt", (Dan 12:2). The verse speaks of 'many', not of 'all', for many dead were to share in the first resurrection and never see death. (John 8:51).
Revelation 22:14,15 is speaking about the righteous of all ages who have not reached spiritual maturity as yet.Their robes have been washed and are righteous and they recorded in the Book of Life. For that reason they are entitled to the leaves of the trees of life for healing, that they may be blessed, perfectly saved, and complete. These also share in the glory of the New Jerusalem.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 04:39:33 PM by Gilbert »

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #147 on: August 24, 2009, 04:58:15 PM »
Thanks it helps my thread

IceDash

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #148 on: September 21, 2009, 01:20:04 PM »
after reading the whole things here, I almost cry what happen to claypot, lee100 pushing further and further and cause darkness by forcing people "where the verse that said God grant forgiven after they die" over and over and over

He firmly believe it's up to God, not us
This feeling I get from lee100 is he want UR to fail and only his belief in God is the right way

There nothing to convince lee100 where that chapter said but maybe if I can help out if the holy spirit guide me to help out lee100

maybe this the verse:

 "The fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide," that is, if his works are holy, "he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn," that is, if his works are faulty and imperfect, "he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."[I. Cor. iii. 13-15.]

But I don't think you want to read this as a "answer", because the truth is, I don't understand how you can stand by and support a creator who knew what we going to do

however, if you confess Jesus is lord, and called on the name of Jesus, you will be saved

I think I might have found the answer:

"Every knees shall confess Jesus is lord"

The only way to confess Jesus is lord, only by the holy spirit, do you think this is God's ultimate plan to put word in the mouth of all sinners, included Satan (think holy spirit would go inside satan's body and make him confess, sure!) will be saved, maybe this is God's last plan, to make people said, automated saved


However, lee100, I only sense that you do not want "love" but "justice", That's how I sense it from you, you want prove and cold-hard truth, only the holy spirit can do that

lee100, would you desire to save all in hell

there was story of God will get all of them out of hell by the prayer in heaven in peter revelation but sadly, it was discharged as gnostic book.


However, all I can see is you saying all the time:

"I don't care what you said, it's up to God, not me"

This is why it's so dangerous, if God ask you to kill a child in front of millions, would you do it, because God said so, or look in your heart where God really is and ask yourself this: "Why would God test me to kill a child in ront of millions, what the point, even I passed the test and knowing God won't let me kill a child by holding my arm like abramham did, but in front of million, what is the point, to push me for test of faith?! He doesn't trust me because I am not enough?! Why..I don't get it, why?!"

If your heart said: "Don't show people this kind of faith, they going to get the wrong ideas"

or the god told you to kill a child: "Don't test me, don't question me, just do it, if you can't do it, you are not worthy of my servent, be gone!'



which God would you choose?





I think I know your answer and it still gruesome to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #149 on: September 21, 2009, 01:34:14 PM »
after reading the whole things here, I almost cry what happen to claypot, lee100 pushing further and further and cause darkness by forcing people "where the verse that said God grant forgiven after they die" over and over and over
Somehow I don't think lee/cog/tc/... didn't succeed. I even think s/he reached the opposite.

Quote
However, lee100, I only sense that you do not want "love" but "justice", That's how I sense it from you, you want prove and cold-hard truth, only the holy spirit can do that
iD,
Read the parable of the workman. Some worked a whole day (good Christians whole their life). Some just one hour (converted the last hour of their life of in the after life). But all got the same payment. (eternal life)
I think many ETs are workmen that worked all day.... They just can't except that others get payed just as much as they receive.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...