Author Topic: I guess it comes down to this.  (Read 8983 times)

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lee100

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I guess it comes down to this.
« on: August 20, 2009, 01:57:57 AM »
Hey guys,

In my quest to find truth of UR, i rely on the bible only. i don't rely on extra-bible books or commentaries from other people. How do we know those people are Holy Spirit inspired? you don't. so what it really comes down to in my mind is can you show biblical proof of sins being forgiven and repentance after someone dies? I know people die in their sins everyday. 180,000 people die everyday worldwide. I have seen the scriptures 1Cor3:15 and phil2:10 and romans 5;18 and all the others(very good scriptures) but where does it say they will repent and be forgiven if they die in their sins? So, that being the case , if someone die s in thier sins where in the bible does it say they will come to repentance and be forgiven? thanks guys.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 02:01:15 AM by lee100 »

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2009, 02:04:23 AM »
Hey guys,

In my quest to find truth of UR, i rely on the bible only. i don't rely on extra-bible books or commentaries from other people. How do we know those people are Holy Spirit inspired? you don't. so what it really comes down to in my mind is can you show biblical proof of sins being forgiven and repentance after someone dies? I know people die in their sins everyday. 180,000 people die everyday worldwide. I have seen the scriptures 1Cor3:15 and phil2:10 and romans 5;18 and all the others(very good scriptures) but where does it say they will repent and be forgiven if they die in their sins? So, that being said the case , if someone die s in thier sins where in the bible does it say they will come to repentance and be forgiven? thanks guys.

At the cross, at the cross.

I rely on the Holy Spirit only for my truth. Someone told me that I will be led to all truth via the Spirit.

Everyone dies in their sins and Jesus died for all. Believe it or not but I think God loves His enemies and His love turns these enemies into friends!

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

lee100

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 02:13:07 AM »
claypool,

What? The cross? I know their is redemption at the cross but the bible is clear you must repent an believe. everyone dies in their sins? why do you think this? believers have their sins cleansed by the blood, whe are made white as snow, made righteous, how can a believer die in thier sins? 

ok, but where in the bible does it say God loves his enemies and his love turns these into friends? no offense i just never read that in the bible. But back to my question where in the bible does it say people repentant and are fprgiven of theirs sins? thanks

Offline Doc

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2009, 02:22:16 AM »
Hm. "Claypool", eh? Mistyping people's screen names: further evidence that lee100 is really CoG37.


I have a question for you. The scripture states that God is love, and that this God that is love tells us to love our enemies. Why would God expect us to be better than Him in doing something he does not do Himself?

« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 02:29:39 AM by Doc »
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

lee100

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 02:25:13 AM »
doc,

oops an honest mistake..im not the greatest speller but sorry to disappoint you im just lee.

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 02:25:29 AM »
claypool,

What? The cross? I know their is redemption at the cross but the bible is clear you must repent an believe. everyone dies in their sins? why do you think this? believers have their sins cleansed by the blood, whe are made white as snow, made righteous, how can a believer die in thier sins?  

ok, but where in the bible does it say God loves his enemies and his love turns these into friends? no offense i just never read that in the bible. But back to my question where in the bible does it say people repentant and are fprgiven of theirs sins? thanks

Did you not die in your sins at the cross? Did not the 'old man' lee die so the new man could rise? Were you not 'born again' or did you not become a new creature in Christ thus having had to die to the old?

leester, you die in your sins and rose to newness of life in Christ, did you not? I'm confused you don't know this.

A believer can't die in their sins for they have no sin in Christ and that is who a believer is. Only sinners have the privilege and grace of dying in their sins of whom you were once.

My friend, bank on this…………His love turned you from an enemy into a friend of His so don't belittle His love.

Why do you want to see where in Scripture it says what you ask? If you see it will you believe it or will you say it is interpreted wrong by whoever shows you. Why don't you ask the Spirit of God?

If you will only believe the Bible as you see it then why are you even asking us any questions at all? What is your motive here?

By the way, I like that 'claypool' name, makes me sound much more distinguished than I really am but thanks anyway and will await your response. Thank you and God bless.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Doc

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 02:33:02 AM »
doc,

oops an honest mistake..im not the greatest speller but sorry to disappoint you im just lee.

Yes, but a very coincidental honest mistake that the now-banned person using the screen name ChosenofGod37 also made. Anyway, I did edit the post, and now there is a question for you in it, "lee".  :laughing7:
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

lee100

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 02:36:09 AM »
claypot,

thanks for your reply. my motive is simple. if i'm going to believe UR to be true i want to see the bible verses that say people are granted repentance and are forgiven of their sins after they die. it is really simple stuff. just show me in the bible where it says this and then i know it to be true and from God and not from man.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 02:46:11 AM by lee100 »

lee100

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 02:41:07 AM »
doc,

i believe we are to love are enemies so that they can see Christ in us and because of that light they see, they will ask us why we are so nice to them and that opens the door to witness and point to the cross for thier salvation. but , to my knowledge no where in the bible says that god will make his enemies his fiends, especially after they die.

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 02:44:32 AM »
claypot,

thanks for your reply. my motive is simple. if i'm going to believe UR to be true i want to see the bible verses that say people are granted repentance and are forgiven of their sins. it is really simple stuff. just show me in the bible where it says this and then i know it to be true and from God and not from man.

I will write again….. You did answer one question of mine but left a bunch unanswered. Please answer all………….

Did you not die in your sins at the cross? Did not the 'old man' lee die so the new man could rise? Were you not 'born again' or did you not become a new creature in Christ thus having had to die to the old?

leester, you die in your sins and rose to newness of life in Christ, did you not? I'm confused you don't know this.

A believer can't die in their sins for they have no sin in Christ and that is who a believer is. Only sinners have the privilege and grace of dying in their sins of whom you were once.

My friend, bank on this…………His love turned you from an enemy into a friend of His so don't belittle His love.

Why do you want to see where in Scripture it says what you ask? If you see it will you believe it or will you say it is interpreted wrong by whoever shows you? Why don't you ask the Spirit of God?

If you will only believe the Bible as you see it then why are you even asking us any questions at all? What is your motive here?

lee, do you believe it was Gods love that turned you from a sinner into a chosen one, a saved one?

For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

lee100

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 02:48:19 AM »
claypoy,

thanks for your reply again. i really do appreaciate it, i do. but where in the bible, chapter and verse does it say that man is granted repentance and forgiveness of sin after they die?

Offline Doc

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2009, 02:49:46 AM »
doc,

i believe we are to love are enemies so that they can see Christ in us and because of that light they see, they will ask us why we are so nice to them and that opens the door to witness and point to the cross for thier salvation. but , to my knowledge no where in the bible says that god will make his enemies his fiends, especially after they die.

How would they see Christ's love in us if He doesn't love his enemies? We don't manufacture the power to love our enemies ourselves.

I see nowhere in the scripture at all that God makes any distinction between enemies and friends based on their current state of existence. "especially" or otherwise.

What I do see in the scripture is that God will eventually be all in all; not all in some, not all in most. All in all. No exceptions are made to this.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 02:51:03 AM »
doc,

i believe we are to love are enemies so that they can see Christ in us and because of that light they see, they will ask us why we are so nice to them and that opens the door to witness and point to the cross for thier salvation. but , to my knowledge no where in the bible says that god will make his enemies his fiends, especially after they die.

Now this is interesting…………..I know we all spell certain things wrong when posting, it is inevitable (sp?). Anyway I notice some unique spelling errors, I used to be a typesetter and certain misspellings stick out. Now I see where lee writes we are to love are enemies

that this is the same way cog wrote such a sentence……………I'm sure it's just a coincidence but it is interesting and why do I have the exact same feeling towards lee as I did towards cog? I'm sure it's just me but I just wanted to comment.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

lee100

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 02:57:06 AM »
claypot,

why would cog want to stay on a forum if he/ or she was getting treated like your treating me? claypot, please answer my question or let someone else. but where in the bible, chapter and verse does it say that man is granted repentance and forgiveness of sin after they die?

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 02:57:47 AM »
claypoy,

thanks for your reply again. i really do appreaciate it, i do. but where in the bible, chapter and verse does it say that man is granted repentance and forgiveness of sin after they die?

cog asked the same question and he, she or it was given a myriad of chapter and verse that he, she or it totally chose not to believe.

lee, if you read your Bible you will see the verses and if you leave it to me to show you then you are of all people most miserable. Only the Holy Spirit can cause you to see chapter and verse as you put it. I cannot show you anything so if it will take me showing you chapter and verse for you to believe then I am afraid you will never believe. Stay with those people who you have around you who are more than willing to show you chapter and verse. They will be more than willing to have you follow them.

Thank you and God bless and I will await your response.

You still have not answered most of my questions but......

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

lee100

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2009, 03:00:46 AM »
will some one else please answer my question? where in the bible, chapter and verse does it say man is granted repentance and forgiveness of sin after they die? this is a simple task, i would think to provide if it werer in the bible. i just want to read it for myself. i am on a UR forum correct? there has to be someone on this forum that can show me that god grants repentance and forgiveness of sin after they die, chapter and verse or why would you believe it, right? please help someone.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 03:04:55 AM by lee100 »

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2009, 03:02:50 AM »
claypot,

why would cog want to stay on a forum if he/ or she was getting treated like your treating me? claypot, please answer my question or let someone else. but where in the bible, chapter and verse does it say that man is granted repentance and forgiveness of sin after they die?

I believe cog had an adversarial spirit and like Jesus telling satan to get behind Him, cog was forced to leave this forum. I think I will really like cog when we meet later but for now the spirit that guides him irritates the hell out of me but that is my own personal problem or maybe it's the Spirit within me but God will judge that.

I have responded to your questions in the only way I know how and you have not answered mine which is exactly how cog behaved most of the time.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline gregoryfl

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2009, 03:03:01 AM »
I will answer your question by asking you a question. When exactly did our sins get forgiven by God, chapter and verse? Your correct answer to that will answer your own question, which, by the way, Claypot answered as well, although not using a particular Bible verse to do so.

Ron

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2009, 03:04:40 AM »
will some one else please answer my question? where in the bible, chapter and verse does it say man is granted repentance and forgiveness of sin after they die? this is a simple task, i would think to provide if it werer in the bible. i just want to read it for myself.

Again, if you have read the Bible and haven't seen it why ask us? Have you read the Bible lee?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

lee100

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2009, 03:12:04 AM »
ron,

i'm asking where in the bible, chapter and verse does it say God grants man repentance and forgivemees of sin AFTER they die, not when they are alive. i know when my sins were forgiven is when i placed my faith in Jesus' sacrifice for the payment for my sins. i believe Jesus went to the cross before there was time rev 13:8, but people have to believe for that to be applied. so please answer my question, where in the bible does God grant repentance and forgiveness of sin After they die?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2009, 03:13:49 AM »
doc,

oops an honest mistake..im not the greatest speller but sorry to disappoint you im just lee.

Yes, but a very coincidental honest mistake that the now-banned person using the screen name ChosenofGod37 also made. Anyway, I did edit the post, and now there is a question for you in it, "lee".  :laughing7:

 :cloud9: I am starting to have a sense of deja vu here also........ :sigh:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline claypot

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2009, 03:15:09 AM »
ron,

i'm asking where in the bible, chapter and verse does it say God grants man repentance and forgivemees of sin AFTER they die, not when they are alive. i know when my sins were forgiven is when i placed my faith in Jesus' sacrifice for the payment for my sins. i believe Jesus went to the cross before there was time rev 13:8, but people have to believe for that to be applied. so please answer my question, where in the bible does God grant repentance and forgiveness of sin After they die?

All are alive unto God.............lk20.38  For he is not a  God  of the dead, but of the living: for all  live  unto him.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

lee100

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2009, 03:17:24 AM »
claypot,

because you are the ones saying this happens or you would not believe in UR, correct? i'm simply asking you to show me why you believe this.. and to show me from the bible, chapter and verse where God grants man repentance and forgiveness of sin after they die. why is this so difficult for you to do? please show me or let someone  else.

lee100

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2009, 03:21:25 AM »
is this how you treat people who ask you simple questions about what you believe? why should i believe in UR if you cannot or will not show me? im asking you to do a simple chapter, verse in the bible where God grants man repentance and forgiveness of sins after they die. please i know there has to be somone on this forumthat can provide these exact scriptures.

Offline gregoryfl

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Re: I guess it comes down to this.
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2009, 03:26:17 AM »
Ok, from what I believe scripture teaching, from God's standpoint, sin was forgiven on the cross. My believing in Christ does not activate anything of God. God activates me to what he has already done. In other words, my believing in him and repenting is not so that I can get forgiveness of sin applied, but it is in response to the fact that sin has been forgiven by Christ on the cross. The Bible is clear. "I will remember their sin no more," not, "I will tentatively remember their sin no more, in limbo, waiting until they repent."

There is no more sin or consciousness of sin from God's standpoint. That is made very clear in Hebrews chapters 9 and 10. That is why only one sacrifice is needed, and it truly did what it was supposed to.

But here are a few other scriptures which relate specifically, although without revelation you will not believe it.

1)All were in sin at one time, in Adam.

2)When Christ died, all in Adam died with him.

2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constrains us; because we judge thus, that one died for all, therefore all died.

3)Because all died, the penalty of sin cannot be applied anymore to anyone.

Rom 6:7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

4)Paul said

Eph 2:5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

That is everyone, because that event in time, Christ's death, was my death, and your death, everyone in Adam died that day. Notice that together with Christ we have been made alive. But until God opens our eyes to see it, we remain as children of wrath, of the devil. Each, in God's own time, will have his or her eyes open, NOT to be forgiven of sin, for there is no sin to be forgiven of in God's eyes. There is NONE! There is no more dying in your sins AFTER the cross. That is how I understand it. Mankind is only in sin in his own deluded thinking.

Ron