Author Topic: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism  (Read 21805 times)

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Offline jabcat

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #100 on: November 29, 2012, 09:25:01 AM »
Good post Ross.  I'd like to re-post this portion from The Christian Bible that I believe goes along with/reinforces your thoughts;

Romans 6:22 Yet now that you have been freed from that which is wrong and have become slaves of God..

1 Cor. 4: 4 A human must be continually regarding us in this manner, as
assistants of the Anointed One and management slaves of God's secrets!

1 Cor. 9: 16 For if I am continually spreading the Good Message, I can't boast about it,
FOR COMPULSION TO DO SO WAS PRESSED UPON ME; for how terrible it is for me if
 I don't spread the Good Message! 17 For if I am engaging in this voluntarily, then I would have wages;
yet if it is involuntarily, then I have been entrusted with a service as a management slave.
18 So then, what is
my wage? It is this, that in spreading the Good Message..

Blessings.
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline Ross

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #101 on: November 29, 2012, 09:35:02 AM »
True.
Also the point Paul makes in 1 Cor 15;10 ' By favour of God I am what I am, and  His Favour which was to me has not been made void, but much more abundantly than all them have I toiled,
ALBEIT NOT I, BUT the favour of God with me."

* I also like the demonstration of being a dad and loving my kids regardless of the mistakes they make. Not one of those kids had any say in their birth, and they have gone through many pains and excitements. They are still my kids regardless.
And our Father loves us more than we can even grasp.
Eph 3;18,19 " In order that you might be might enough to grasp firmly with all the saints, what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height,
to get to know the knowledge surpassing love of the Christ, in order that you might FILLED to ALL THE FULNESS OF GOD."
Fellow brother in Christ

Offline jabcat

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #102 on: November 29, 2012, 09:44:11 AM »
I agree.  In the end, it's all Him, and it must be Him working through us.

I know it's more serious than that, and it could be debated on technicalities or minor details, but as a general cute picture of it, I like what Martin Zender said about us being co-laborers with God.  He said it's like God is in the driver's seat driving the car, and He lets us play with the power windows and door locks.   :laugh:
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline Ross

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #103 on: November 29, 2012, 09:54:36 AM »
Real character Zender, has some interesting books and talks on his site.

Being a joint-heir with Jesus is also pretty inspiring.

 
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Offline Ross

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #104 on: November 29, 2012, 10:00:27 AM »
Gal 4;4-6 " But when the proper time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born subject to the law, to purchase the freedom of those who were subject to the law, that we might BE ADOPTED and have sonship conferred on us. And because you really are His sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts crying Father!"
Fellow brother in Christ

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Is Hell a Myth or is it Real- Who Decides
« Reply #105 on: November 29, 2012, 08:28:27 PM »
  Some say a  Hell of Endless Torment is a MYTH, others say Jesus spoke about it,
so who is Right, is it open to Interpretation, who is Right, does Hell Exist

www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. http://www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com/

Offline eaglesway

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #106 on: November 29, 2012, 08:33:39 PM »
Of course hell exists - just not how many (most people imagine it. The hell portrayed in movies and which stands out in peop[le's minds is from a book called Dante's Inferno. Although a work of fiction, people have used this depiction of hell to keep others "in Line"
Hell is merely the grave or the unseen location of the dead.
Hell is not the lake of fire for scripture says that death AND hell are tossed into the lake of fire. As I
said earlier hell is the abode of the dead, so it only makes sense that BOTH are simultaneously cast into the lake of fire.
There is no eternal torture but there is corrective punishment of finite duration.
"God alone is eternal", "our God is a consuming fire" therefore, the ONLY eternal fire is God himself.
Don't misunderstand-God is not mocked and there is, like I said, corrective punishment but it is of limited duration.

I would (kindly, gently with a smile on)dispute the "Of Course" part. IMO there is no hell and never was. Hell is Sheol in scripture(52 times)... Gehenna(11 times, but repeats of the same four times in the gospels- so only 4 times). IMO, The lake of fire is not hell, nor is it ever identified as such in the scripture. Same with Gehenna.

Hell is a pure creation of three series of translators. The Greeks(Septuagint, Sheol to Hades) then the Romans(Latin Vulgate, Hades to Inferno), then finally the Danes/English (King James Version, Hades and Inferno to Hell). From the begonning it was not so :o)

www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 08:43:47 PM by eaglesway »
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. http://www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com/

Offline eaglesway

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #107 on: November 29, 2012, 08:45:47 PM »
The concept embodied in the contemporary word "hell" was never a part of the original Hebrew scriptures. The idea of a place of eternal burning torment cannot be found in the Old Testament. The word "hell" never occurred in the collected writings we call the Bible until the 1500's and the advent of English translations. There are three Hebrew words in the English Bibles that are translated "hell". One is "Sheol", another is "Gehenna", and the third, which occurs only once in the entire collection of holy writings called "the bible" is "Tartarus". Each of these words has its own particular meaning. None of them is equivalent to the others. Therefore, let's ask the obvious question, "How could three different words be correctly translated into the one word, "hell."

The obvious answer is,"They could not have." Someone might assume that one of them was correctly translated and the other two were not, but the fact is, none of the three words translates correctly into "hell". Hell comes from early Norse mythology and came to England through the invading Danes, Jutes and Vikings. In the mythology of Viking dominated Scandinavia, the goddess Hel ruled the place Hel.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. http://www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com/

Offline Tony N

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Re: You Cannot Prove Universalism is True
« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2012, 09:46:51 PM »
  You cannot Prove Universalism is True, from the Bible alone, it is
Only a  Possibility,  The  Bible  HOPELESSLY  Contradicts Itself, and you cannot Make the Pieces of this Huge Puzzle fit, Only God Knows

Of course it can be proven to be true. However, in an improperly translated bible it is harder to prove.

For instance the KJV's rendering of Matthew 25:46 directly opposes 1 Timothy 2:4-6. But a properly translated bible does not.
Get yourself a Concordant Literal translation and you will have a version that does not contradict itself.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Universalism or Eternal Torment- In the Eye of the Beholder
« Reply #109 on: November 30, 2012, 10:00:25 PM »
    Universalism or Eternal Torment, Which is True, that's in the Eye of the Beholder
Only God Knows for Certain, Only God Knows,
 

Only God and His friends know.

Truth is not truth in the eye of the beholder. It is either true or a lie. Black and white.
Why don't you research out the words behind "eternal"? The word "eternal" is a very poor translation of the Greek word "aionios." Look at Young's Literal translation of Matthew 25:46 and see.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline MusicLover123

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #110 on: May 13, 2018, 02:40:08 AM »
So, it is too complex for Jesus to be the SAVIOUR of the WORLD? It is too complex to realize that the Fathers will WILL be DONE? It is too complex to realize that Love NEVER fails?

Matthew 15:3
3And he answering said to them, `Wherefore also do ye transgress the command of God because of your tradition?

2 Kings 17:40
40and they have not hearkened, but according to their former custom they are doing,
John 1
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Offline marie glen

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #111 on: May 17, 2018, 06:53:15 PM »
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen! ML123 :thumbsup:
"I will draw ALL to Me." [Jesus, Jn.12:32] Written in the pattern of the Holy Days? an image - https://gospel-truth4all.blogspot.com
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Offline MusicLover123

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #112 on: May 17, 2018, 09:42:43 PM »
Quote
Many have said  Universalism is a False Man Made Doctrine, and a Theory, and Wishful thinking
Well, Many will ALSO come to Jesus and claim that they knew Him, that they do wonderful works in His name. But Christ does not know them. Does the atheists and heathens claim to do these things? No. THE CHURCH DOES!

Luke 6:46
46`And why do ye call me, Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?

Matthew 7:22-23
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things?
23and then I will acknowledge to them, that--I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.
John 1
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Offline marie glen

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #113 on: May 18, 2018, 07:07:45 PM »
Quote
Many have said  Universalism is a False Man Made Doctrine, and a Theory, and Wishful thinking
Well, Many will ALSO come to Jesus and claim that they knew Him, that they do wonderful works in His name. But Christ does not know them. Does the atheists and heathens claim to do these things? No. THE CHURCH DOES!

Luke 6:46
46`And why do ye call me, Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?

Matthew 7:22-23
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things?
23and then I will acknowledge to them, that--I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.


"working lawlessness" --  :Chinscratch: I wonder what the Greek is..

http://biblehub.com/greek/458.htm

anomia - lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin(/missing the mark)

And...? ..not truly following Jesus / THE way (so I guess.. whitewashed? which just doesn't really get it!
 it misses the mark.. so reconciliation on 'day' of judgment? with the 2nd resurrection)

..just some  :2c: :hiya:
"I will draw ALL to Me." [Jesus, Jn.12:32] Written in the pattern of the Holy Days? an image - https://gospel-truth4all.blogspot.com
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Offline MusicLover123

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #114 on: May 18, 2018, 08:58:22 PM »
Quote
Many have said  Universalism is a False Man Made Doctrine, and a Theory, and Wishful thinking
Well, Many will ALSO come to Jesus and claim that they knew Him, that they do wonderful works in His name. But Christ does not know them. Does the atheists and heathens claim to do these things? No. THE CHURCH DOES!

Luke 6:46
46`And why do ye call me, Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?

Matthew 7:22-23
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things?
23and then I will acknowledge to them, that--I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.


"working lawlessness" --  :Chinscratch: I wonder what the Greek is..

http://biblehub.com/greek/458.htm

anomia - lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin(/missing the mark)

And...? ..not truly following Jesus / THE way (so I guess.. whitewashed? which just doesn't really get it!
 it misses the mark.. so reconciliation on 'day' of judgment? with the 2nd resurrection)

..just some  :2c: :hiya:
I gotcha!  :dsunny: :friendstu:
John 1
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Offline sheila

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #115 on: May 18, 2018, 09:16:02 PM »
Is it lawfull to kill or heal on the Sabbath?[Christ's 1000yr reign]People forget that the religious leaders of Jesus day accused Him of demonic origin. He came to His own

and they knew Him not.

Many,many gospels are but man-made doctrines/commandments of sinful men.They nullify the Lamb of God[WORD OF GOD COME IN FLESH] that takes away the sinsof

 thewhole world.THEY NULLIFY MANY OTHER WORDS OF GOD CONCERNING RECONCILING ALL TO HIMSELF AND NOT COUNTING MEN'S TRESSPASSES AGAINST THEM

 AS WELL AS FREELY FORGIVING SINS AND GIVING THE FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE.

  They weigh with unjust scales,also...great mercy unto themselves and little or no mercy unto those that..fail to honour them or line  up with their man made doctrines...

or pay them tithes. The Laodaecian church of the end times think they can see and are rich,spiritually speaking.Having no idea of their blindness and spiritual poverty.

Buy from me[not men]gold tried in the fire Psalms 12;6..and the words of the Lord are flawless..like silver refined in a furnace of clay seven times.

Magnify the 'Word of God' over that of men.Psalms138;2


I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your Love and faithfullness,

 FOR YOU HAVE EXALTED ABOVE ALL THINGS YOUR NAME AND YOUR WORD. :2c:

Offline Batty Bible Page

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #116 on: June 27, 2018, 01:56:37 AM »
A good question I read asked at a different site years ago concerning Universalism is this. If the whole world is saved what is the point of the most evil vicious people acting out in this world? When God knows they'll still see the same paradise as those who loved him and lived righteously?

And, those passages that say those who are in Christ do not make a habit of sinning. The aforementioned not only do make a habit but they conflict with the other passage that says, those who make that habit do not know God nor have his holy spirit.
An yet, Universalism teaches they're still saved by Him? :flamebreath:

Never did see anyone answer that thread. I'm recalling it from memory of years past. That isn't the copy/paste of the post.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #117 on: June 27, 2018, 07:41:49 AM »
A good question I read asked at a different site years ago concerning Universalism is this. If the whole world is saved what is the point of the most evil vicious people acting out in this world? When God knows they'll still see the same paradise as those who loved him and lived righteously?

I know about that argument, but when you really think about it, it's not really an argumen at all.
Why did God create sinners? Why not 100 billion Jesus types and put 'm in heaven right away?

What's the use of earth? Why first earth and then heaven? Why do good people have to prove themselves on this mudball for 80 years, while God already knows how it turns out?
If it's about learning I'm sure He can also create people with 'learned minds'.

Do you really think God wasn't able to create that evil OT king as a good guy?
Yes, He was able. But He didn't for some reason. Yeah, free will  :blah: but why? That was a choice by God. Why? On top of that, good people will never abuse that free will to murder. Only bad people do.

Did God create bad people on purpose? Or is His design flawed, and that's why free will is used to murder? He who digs a pit is responseble for covering it.

So while the question is a good question, it most often isn't a question but a way to debunk UR. But at the same time it also raises questions about their own denomination. Complex questions that can't be answered. And with that, can't be used to debunk UR.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jugghead

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #118 on: June 27, 2018, 09:02:50 AM »
I look at it this way .... if all that we knew is good and then one day one of His children came up to Him and asked, "Is there anything else other than this?" or "Is there anything other than good?"

And since God cannot lie, He would have to tell that child, "Yes, there is, but you wouldn't want to go there."

The child would ask, "Why?"

And God would have to say, "Because it is a hurtful place, where evil is."

Then of course, the child is going to ask "What is evil?"

Can we really know what evil is just by someone explaining it to us? I believe evil has to be seen and experienced in order to fully know the potential of it. We have to experience the spirit of the word; experience the spirit of the word evil.

And in the same way, can we really know what love is just by someone explaining it to us? Again, I believe love has to be seen and experienced in order to fully know the potential of it. And again, we have to experience the spirit of the word; experience the ....

SPIRIT OF THE WORD LOVE

The rest is history

my  :2c:
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Offline rosered

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #119 on: June 27, 2018, 01:11:58 PM »
A good question I read asked at a different site years ago concerning Universalism is this. If the whole world is saved what is the point of the most evil vicious people acting out in this world? When God knows they'll still see the same paradise as those who loved him and lived righteously?

And, those passages that say those who are in Christ do not make a habit of sinning. The aforementioned not only do make a habit but they conflict with the other passage that says, those who make that habit do not know God nor have his holy spirit.
An yet, Universalism teaches they're still saved by Him? :flamebreath:

Never did see anyone answer that thread. I'm recalling it from memory of years past. That isn't the copy/paste of the post.

 Great thoughts WW, JUGG ,  Here I will also  attempt  to  share some thoughts  with BBP, but only the Holy Spirit can persuade  any one of us at any time   with the faith of  Our Lord Jesus Christ  working in any of us at any time.
 
   There is no good answer  for a skeptic  , they will not believe anything    said .  they stop    their ears from hearing the truth .
  Some times the truth is silent  before them ..but still is there .
 
 The thing is,, God is carrying us though everything  in this very short life   and most never ,ever take it to heart !!
 
  Mankind has always tried to bring God down  to their level  of understanding  , and that is not possible to know God   with mankind's carnal mindset  ,it is death  and the dead know nothing about God [LIFE ITSELF ] .Even reading the scriptures    without the Spirit of Life bringing them, breathing  to life in your mortal body,   a powerful Word of Truth superseding any thought you  held  as a high thought gets cast out  into the darkness  , but the Light of Gods power is making something happen in you , you can never just explain  away  to anyone else , unless it is happening to them too , somthing in common .
 
  During the  short  ministry  Jesus  says , in the scriptures , tell no man , or Mark 9:9
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus admonished them not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.   Because that is when He was  going to take death captive !

  How into HIMSELF / LIFE is swallowing up death [ Colossians  1 ] Openly   GOD makes a way  ,we can know now , somthing that most had to wait upon a literal physical death to experience by the faith works of   Gods Word & Spirit of Truth gathering  together  as ONE  everything  , nothing will be left  undone ....
 
  Most  religious spirits is just being giving over to their own ideas about God  as pointless thinking being  the idols of their hearts desire ..  Romans 1
 
Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused............
 
   The blind leading the blind  and everyone is  falling , but the LORD is carrying them  every last one .
 
 Faith  of Christ , that anointing from God Himself [Life ]   makes you know  it is all in GODS POWER  and not of ourselves .

 
 Here is a powerful  Living Word to consider,  knowing salvation is of GOD only ! 
 
 1Cor 15 ,,The Order of Resurrection
…27For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him,

so that God may be all in all.

 29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

 
  This is a great question you have got to ask yourself  than , WHAT IS THE POINT !!!!!!!  Paul lets us in on a big clue here !!  and revelation    Why did Paul and those chosen of God bother to   Die for sharing what God give them to know against all odds ?
BECAUSE EVERYONE WILL BE RAISED UP INCORRUPTIBLE , NO MORE DEATH , no more pain no more dying all tears will be dried and comforted NOW , the WORD IS OUT , LIFE will swallow up death in victory!!!!!!!!!
 
  THIS is truly what being baptized in Christ death means !!  it is a pure  and holy thing  and meaning !! WHAT A PURPOSE !! 

 29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30And why do we endanger ourselves every hour?

 31I face death every day, brothers, as surely as I boast about you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for human motives, what did I gain? If the dead are not raised,

“Let us eat and drink,

for tomorrow we die.”

33Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good character.” 34 Sober up as you ought, and stop sinning; for some of you are ignorant of God. I say this to your shame.
 

1 Corinthians 3:23
and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.

1 Corinthians 12:6
There are different ways of working, but the same God works all things in all men.



Philippians 3:21
who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.
 
 I see this as a simple understanding , we are all slaves to sin , the darkness of ignorance and lies , till Christ comes / TRUTH  to set us free from deaths grip and no more hold on us , some  now and some later but always in GODS WISDOM   ..
 
His anger lasts only a moment. His favor lasts a lifetime. Weeping may last for the night, but there is a song of joy in the morning.  , children of the dawn , children  of the Day , sons of Light    , the Last Day   that the Light increases   7 fold as all the days are ONE DAY
 
 God's Mercies
…25And from every high mountain and every raised hill, streams of water will flow in the day of great slaughter, when the towers fall. 26The light of the moon will be as bright as the sun, and the light of the sun will be seven times brighter— like the light of seven days— on the day that the LORD binds up the brokenness of His people and heals the wounds He inflicted. 27Behold, the Name of the LORD comes from afar, with burning anger and dense smoke. His lips are full of fury, and His tongue is like a consuming fire.…

Revelation 21:23
And the city has no need for sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp.

Revelation 22:5
There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever.

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

Job 5:18
For He wounds, but also binds; He strikes, but His hands also heal.

Isaiah 1:6
From the sole of your foot to the top of your head, there is no soundness--only wounds and welts and festering sores not cleansed or bandaged or soothed with oil.

Isaiah 19:22
And the LORD will strike Egypt with a plague; He will strike them but heal them. They will turn to the LORD, and He will hear their prayers and heal them.

Isaiah 24:23
The moon will be confounded and the sun ashamed; for the LORD of Hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, and in the presence of His elders, He will display His glory.

Isaiah 30:13
this iniquity of yours is like a breach about to fall, a bulge in a high wall, whose collapse will come suddenly--in an instant!

Isaiah 30:14
It will break in pieces like a potter's jar, shattered so that no fragment can be found. Not a shard will be found in the dust large enough to scoop the coals from a hearth or to skim the water from a cistern."

Isaiah 33:24
And no resident of Zion will say, "I am sick." The people who dwell there will be forgiven their iniquity.

Isaiah 57:18
I have seen his ways, but I will heal him; I will guide him and restore comfort to him and his mourners,

Isaiah 58:8
Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will come quickly. Your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.

Isaiah 60:19
No longer will the sun be your light by day, and the brightness of the moon will not shine on you; for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your splendor.

Isaiah 60:20
Your sun will no longer set, and your moon will not wane; for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and the days of your sorrow will be over.

Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is on Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and release from darkness to the prisoners,

Jeremiah 30:17
But I will restore your health and heal your wounds, declares the LORD, because they call you an outcast, Zion, for whom no one cares."

Jeremiah 33:6
Nevertheless, I will bring to it health and healing, and I will heal its people and reveal to them the abundance of peace and truth.

Hosea 6:1
Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us to pieces, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bind us up.

Hosea 6:2
After two days He will revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, that we may live in His presence.

Malachi 4:2
"But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings, and you will go out and leap like calves from the stall.

 
ALL GOD AND FOR HIS GLORY we now thank and praise Him for everything .... :HeartThrob:
 
 long post  sorry , but worth sharing GODS WORD , if we got ears to hear what HIS  Spirit  of Life is saying to us ...
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #120 on: June 27, 2018, 01:36:39 PM »
   There is no good answer  for a skeptic  , they will not believe anything    said .  they stop    their ears from hearing the truth .
  Some times the truth is silent  before them ..but still is there .
It's not just about skeptics, RR.

It's about interdenominational battles. Just think about all the fights between Protestant denominations. Or protestants again Catholics. Protestants don't believe Catholics are honest seeking people. No, in many cases they don't even believe they are people but just dressed up demons.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #121 on: June 27, 2018, 01:44:17 PM »
A good question I read asked at a different site years ago concerning Universalism is this. If the whole world is saved what is the point of the most evil vicious people acting out in this world? When God knows they'll still see the same paradise as those who loved him and lived righteously?
If they happen to be Calvinists, you can ask them a similar question:
Why do people have prove themselves worthy for heaven if God predestined them to spend eternity in heaven? Isn't that a waste of time?
Why is predestination for 10% the pinnacle of Godly grace, and 100% the purest form of blasphemy?

There is preacher/scholar that said something like: Let people list their 5 favorite verses and I'll be able to convict them (to death) based on the (heretical selection) of those verses.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 03:42:43 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Dandelion

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #122 on: June 27, 2018, 03:18:24 PM »
There are many Bible verses that substantiate that we are all saved, through Christ, eventually.

The one that I use as my anchor in all of this is very simple.

Love never fails - 1 Corinthians 13:8

Jesus' death on the cross was for all. If some go to Hell, His sacrifice was not 'enough' to save everyone.

His victory was not complete, if some of us are not saved....made in His image and likeness.....with every hair on our head, counted.

That cannot be the case. Love never fails. God is Love, and when Jesus died on that cross, no greater love was ever shown, before or since, than for the Son of God to come down to earth and live and die for us.

So, I am very assured that we are all, as I like to say, going Home. Home to Heaven....one day.

D.
7"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8"For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.…

Matthew 7:7 -8

Offline marie glen

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #123 on: June 27, 2018, 06:15:27 PM »
A good question I read asked at a different site years ago concerning Universalism is this. If the whole world is saved what is the point of the most evil vicious people acting out in this world? When God knows they'll still see the same paradise as those who loved him and lived righteously?

And, those passages that say those who are in Christ do not make a habit of sinning. The aforementioned not only do make a habit but they conflict with the other passage that says, those who make that habit do not know God nor have his holy spirit.
An yet, Universalism teaches they're still saved by Him? :flamebreath:

Never did see anyone answer that thread. I'm recalling it from memory of years past. That isn't the copy/paste of the post.

I think that's just a simple matter of where does it say in the bible after death no hope? That's a line/sentiment from Dante's Inferno, but not in the Bible. Those who "perish" or are "destroyed" it doesn't say it's forever. Even Jesus was said to have been "destroyed" by the Pharisees.. Same word, but I forget the verse..

The only verse, I think, which could possibly be read to mean after death no hope, is when Jesus told the Pharisees that unless they "believe" they will die in their sins.. Which to me, seems to simply mean they will rise still in their sins (initially not as joyful a resurrection as the one of faith, called the first resurrection).

And of course no one has "everlasting life" / is saved, unless they "believe" in Jesus and the finished work of God through Him. And though it is assumed by so many that the only opportunity to "believe" is during this life and God has no power to save beyond it.. That, I believe, is a running with the Word.. Going further than what it actually says.

Which came about because by the time of the translations, the pagan/non-christian idea of afterlife torment, permeated the culture and the peoples' views. So it was translated into the bible.

Also, though it's likely been mentioned, according to the Greek, punishment is "corrective" not merely vengeance. "God is Love" 1 Jn 4:8.
God bless you, BBP! :gsmile:
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Offline marie glen

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #124 on: June 27, 2018, 06:23:38 PM »
I look at it this way .... if all that we knew is good and then one day one of His children came up to Him and asked, "Is there anything else other than this?" or "Is there anything other than good?"

And since God cannot lie, He would have to tell that child, "Yes, there is, but you wouldn't want to go there."

Amen, the ability to think and reason, seems, to me, to include a whole 'new' world of possibilities.. And since God cannot lie.. there was that tree, of knowing good and evil, in the midst of that first garden of life..

The child would ask, "Why?"

And God would have to say, "Because it is a hurtful place, where evil is."

Then of course, the child is going to ask "What is evil?"

Can we really know what evil is just by someone explaining it to us? I believe evil has to be seen and experienced in order to fully know the potential of it. We have to experience the spirit of the word; experience the spirit of the word evil.

And in the same way, can we really know what love is just by someone explaining it to us? Again, I believe love has to be seen and experienced in order to fully know the potential of it. And again, we have to experience the spirit of the word; experience the ....

SPIRIT OF THE WORD LOVE

The rest is history

my  :2c:

Amen.. would all be really, truly, and totally convinced?

How to create rational creatures without that tree of knowing good and evil coming about?? Is there even a way..?
"I will draw ALL to Me." [Jesus, Jn.12:32] Written in the pattern of the Holy Days? an image - https://gospel-truth4all.blogspot.com
Enter The Story Annual Reading Schedule ~ https://inner-monastery.blogspot.com/p/daily.html