Author Topic: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism  (Read 7311 times)

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Offline jabcat

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #100 on: November 29, 2012, 09:25:01 AM »
Good post Ross.  I'd like to re-post this portion from The Christian Bible that I believe goes along with/reinforces your thoughts;

Romans 6:22 Yet now that you have been freed from that which is wrong and have become slaves of God..

1 Cor. 4: 4 A human must be continually regarding us in this manner, as
assistants of the Anointed One and management slaves of God's secrets!

1 Cor. 9: 16 For if I am continually spreading the Good Message, I can't boast about it,
FOR COMPULSION TO DO SO WAS PRESSED UPON ME; for how terrible it is for me if
 I don't spread the Good Message! 17 For if I am engaging in this voluntarily, then I would have wages;
yet if it is involuntarily, then I have been entrusted with a service as a management slave.
18 So then, what is
my wage? It is this, that in spreading the Good Message..

Blessings.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Ross

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #101 on: November 29, 2012, 09:35:02 AM »
True.
Also the point Paul makes in 1 Cor 15;10 ' By favour of God I am what I am, and  His Favour which was to me has not been made void, but much more abundantly than all them have I toiled,
ALBEIT NOT I, BUT the favour of God with me."

* I also like the demonstration of being a dad and loving my kids regardless of the mistakes they make. Not one of those kids had any say in their birth, and they have gone through many pains and excitements. They are still my kids regardless.
And our Father loves us more than we can even grasp.
Eph 3;18,19 " In order that you might be might enough to grasp firmly with all the saints, what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height,
to get to know the knowledge surpassing love of the Christ, in order that you might FILLED to ALL THE FULNESS OF GOD."
Fellow brother in Christ

Offline jabcat

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #102 on: November 29, 2012, 09:44:11 AM »
I agree.  In the end, it's all Him, and it must be Him working through us.

I know it's more serious than that, and it could be debated on technicalities or minor details, but as a general cute picture of it, I like what Martin Zender said about us being co-laborers with God.  He said it's like God is in the driver's seat driving the car, and He lets us play with the power windows and door locks.   :laugh:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Ross

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #103 on: November 29, 2012, 09:54:36 AM »
Real character Zender, has some interesting books and talks on his site.

Being a joint-heir with Jesus is also pretty inspiring.

 
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Offline Ross

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #104 on: November 29, 2012, 10:00:27 AM »
Gal 4;4-6 " But when the proper time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born subject to the law, to purchase the freedom of those who were subject to the law, that we might BE ADOPTED and have sonship conferred on us. And because you really are His sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts crying Father!"
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Offline eaglesway

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Re: Is Hell a Myth or is it Real- Who Decides
« Reply #105 on: November 29, 2012, 08:28:27 PM »
  Some say a  Hell of Endless Torment is a MYTH, others say Jesus spoke about it,
so who is Right, is it open to Interpretation, who is Right, does Hell Exist

www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline eaglesway

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #106 on: November 29, 2012, 08:33:39 PM »
Of course hell exists - just not how many (most people imagine it. The hell portrayed in movies and which stands out in peop[le's minds is from a book called Dante's Inferno. Although a work of fiction, people have used this depiction of hell to keep others "in Line"
Hell is merely the grave or the unseen location of the dead.
Hell is not the lake of fire for scripture says that death AND hell are tossed into the lake of fire. As I
said earlier hell is the abode of the dead, so it only makes sense that BOTH are simultaneously cast into the lake of fire.
There is no eternal torture but there is corrective punishment of finite duration.
"God alone is eternal", "our God is a consuming fire" therefore, the ONLY eternal fire is God himself.
Don't misunderstand-God is not mocked and there is, like I said, corrective punishment but it is of limited duration.

I would (kindly, gently with a smile on)dispute the "Of Course" part. IMO there is no hell and never was. Hell is Sheol in scripture(52 times)... Gehenna(11 times, but repeats of the same four times in the gospels- so only 4 times). IMO, The lake of fire is not hell, nor is it ever identified as such in the scripture. Same with Gehenna.

Hell is a pure creation of three series of translators. The Greeks(Septuagint, Sheol to Hades) then the Romans(Latin Vulgate, Hades to Inferno), then finally the Danes/English (King James Version, Hades and Inferno to Hell). From the begonning it was not so :o)

www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 08:43:47 PM by eaglesway »
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline eaglesway

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #107 on: November 29, 2012, 08:45:47 PM »
The concept embodied in the contemporary word "hell" was never a part of the original Hebrew scriptures. The idea of a place of eternal burning torment cannot be found in the Old Testament. The word "hell" never occurred in the collected writings we call the Bible until the 1500's and the advent of English translations. There are three Hebrew words in the English Bibles that are translated "hell". One is "Sheol", another is "Gehenna", and the third, which occurs only once in the entire collection of holy writings called "the bible" is "Tartarus". Each of these words has its own particular meaning. None of them is equivalent to the others. Therefore, let's ask the obvious question, "How could three different words be correctly translated into the one word, "hell."

The obvious answer is,"They could not have." Someone might assume that one of them was correctly translated and the other two were not, but the fact is, none of the three words translates correctly into "hell". Hell comes from early Norse mythology and came to England through the invading Danes, Jutes and Vikings. In the mythology of Viking dominated Scandinavia, the goddess Hel ruled the place Hel.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline Tony N

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Re: You Cannot Prove Universalism is True
« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2012, 09:46:51 PM »
  You cannot Prove Universalism is True, from the Bible alone, it is
Only a  Possibility,  The  Bible  HOPELESSLY  Contradicts Itself, and you cannot Make the Pieces of this Huge Puzzle fit, Only God Knows

Of course it can be proven to be true. However, in an improperly translated bible it is harder to prove.

For instance the KJV's rendering of Matthew 25:46 directly opposes 1 Timothy 2:4-6. But a properly translated bible does not.
Get yourself a Concordant Literal translation and you will have a version that does not contradict itself.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Universalism or Eternal Torment- In the Eye of the Beholder
« Reply #109 on: November 30, 2012, 10:00:25 PM »
    Universalism or Eternal Torment, Which is True, that's in the Eye of the Beholder
Only God Knows for Certain, Only God Knows,
 

Only God and His friends know.

Truth is not truth in the eye of the beholder. It is either true or a lie. Black and white.
Why don't you research out the words behind "eternal"? The word "eternal" is a very poor translation of the Greek word "aionios." Look at Young's Literal translation of Matthew 25:46 and see.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.