Author Topic: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism  (Read 7945 times)

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Offline ded2daworld

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2012, 06:34:59 PM »
In the very beggining of this forum, one of the aswers was along the lines of, the better you know and understand God,
the more you'll see UR. It's true.
Age 17, I became a Baptist. Told to "witness" to others, I became very uneasy with the "knowledge" that my sister, brother, friends, wonderful parents, friends, and classmates would all be going to hell. Eternal torture for those that had never heard, had been raped, or murdered, born blind or deaf, starved to death, were aborted or retarded. - God made them all and says he loves them all.
I couldn't rationalize pointless torture lasting longer than a person had even been alive - not even from a cruel and heartless "God"
In love with us, God descended and rescued us and saved us from what we were unable to save ourselves from.
The only way any/all of us can be reconciled to God is through Christ.
Some are brought to him in this lifetime, most will not even hear the truthfully good news till after death.
If the good shepherd will not rest with even one of his little sheep lost, how much more God will seek for us wayward sheep.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 08:28:01 PM by ded2daworld »
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline legoman

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2012, 08:25:04 PM »
   What about  Hebrews 9:27, that Verse is Used often to show
that Universalism is FALSE,  that there are no Second Chances After Death to Repent and Accept Christ, that once a person dies without Christ all hope is lost for them

Lets look at the verse to verify that claim:
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this all hope is lost

 :eek: Hmm, that seems pretty definitive.  Oh wait, it doesn't say that at all!   :winkgrin:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment


Do a full study on what judgment is, and what judgment does.

Here is an example:
Isaiah 26:9 for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Psalm 96:13 Let all creation rejoice before the LORD, for he comes, he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples in his faithfulness.


So here we see that judgment teaches people what is right (ie. righteousness), and people will rejoice when He comes to judge the world.  Will people be rejoicing over all the others (presumably not themselves) who, as you say, all hope is lost?  Is that Christ-like, to rejoice that others have lost all hope?  Key point: Christ taught us to love our enemies.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2012, 08:37:32 PM »
Idiom #31 - Judgement and salvation

Psalm 43:1 Judge me, O God

Isaiah 59:9-14
New International Version (NIV)

Isa 59
9 So justice is far from us,
    and righteousness does not reach us.
We look for light, but all is darkness;
    for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows.
11 We all growl like bears;
    we moan mournfully like doves.
We look for justice, but find none;
    for deliverance, but it is far away.
14 So justice is driven back,
    and righteousness stands at a distance;
truth has stumbled in the streets,
    honesty cannot enter

In all the above verses judgement equals something good like rightousness and salvation.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mat 19:28 Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Read Psalm 122 in which Jerusalem is called city of Salvation with several thrones.
Parallel between psalm 122 and Mat 19:28
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course judgement can be really negative; but the word itself certainly isn't all doom and gloom.
Context.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Matt 12:18 [ACV])
Behold, my Boy whom I chose, my beloved in whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will declare justice to the Gentiles.

(Isa 42:1 [ACV])
Behold, my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights. I have put my Spirit upon him, he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

(Ps 43:1 [ACV])
Judge me, O God, and plead my cause against a profane nation. O deliver me from the deceitful and unjust man.

(John 3:17 [ACV])
For God sent the Son into the world not that he might condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

(the noun salvation is only 7 times in the Gospels

The Hebrew word for Judgement, judging, etc very often means saving, to save etc
Jesus came to save not to judge.
When David was is trouble he called for help (salvation) not the negative meaning of judgement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Judg 11:27 [ACV])
I therefore have not sinned against thee, but thou do me wrong to war against me. LORD, the Judge, be judge this day between the sons of Israel and the sons of Ammon.

(Isa 33:22 [ACV])
For LORD is our judge. LORD is our lawgiver. LORD is our king, he will save us.

(Gen 18:25 [ACV])
That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay a righteous man with a wicked man, that so the righteous man should be as the wicked man. Far be it from thee. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

(Ps 94:2 [ACV])
Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth. Render to the proud a recompense.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Luke 22:30 [ACV])
that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

(Ps 122:1 [ACV])
I was glad when they said to me, Let us go to the house of LORD.

(Ps 122:2 [ACV])
Our feet are standing inside thy gates, O Jerusalem.

(Ps 122:3 [ACV])
Jerusalem, that is built as a city that is compact together,

(Ps 122:4 [ACV])
where the tribes go up, even the tribes of LORD, [for] an ordinance for Israel, to give thanks to the name of LORD.

(Ps 122:5 [ACV])
For there thrones are set for judgment, the thrones of the house of David.

(Ps 122:6 [ACV])
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. They shall prosper who love thee.

(Ps 122:7 [ACV])
Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces.

(Ps 122:8 [ACV])
For my brothers and companions' sakes I will now say, Peace be within thee.

(Ps 122:9 [ACV])
For the sake of the house of LORD our God I will seek thy good.

Jersusalem, city of salvation.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2012, 08:41:34 PM »
   What about  Hebrews 9:27, that Verse is Used often to show
that Universalism is FALSE,  that there are no Second Chances After Death to Repent and Accept Christ, that once a person dies without Christ all hope is lost for them

Lets look at the verse to verify that claim:
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this all hope is lost
Hebrews 9: 27 And inasmuch as it is reserved to men once to die, and after this, judgment,
---> The classic verse to prove there is no chance for salvation after death.

Romans 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
---> Maybe they make fake confessions to escape hell?
---> That can only be true if the Holy Spirit inspires lies and fake confessions....
 
1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God says, Jesus is accursed, and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, except by Holy Spirit.
---> That's very clear; all who kneel do so because the Holy Spirit dwells within them. So the kneeling is a genuine confession...
---> Note that this is also the case before death.
---> But maybe it's to late anyway?
 
Romans 10:9 that if thou will confess with thy mouth, Lord Jesus, and will believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou will be saved.
---> Short recap: Everyone will make a true confession and at that point they will be saved. Obviously mrs muslim and mr. satanist never confesed in this life. Yet they are part of "everyone".
---> Ergo there is a chance after death. Ergo salvation after death is a Holy Spirit enforced fact for those groups.

---> Finally all the above are unconditional statements. But if there is still doubt....
Isaiah 45: 23 By myself I have sworn, the word has gone forth from my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue will confess to God
 
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

TheAuthenticFan

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My Views on 1 Tim 4:10
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2012, 09:56:07 PM »
   My View is That   1 Tim 4:10 does NOT show that Jesus will save all Mankind,
both Believers and Non-Believers,  Where it says
"Especially of those who believe"  The Word "Especially" is taken
OUT OF CONTEXT and is just used as a  Figure of Speech, just like  "All in All" :dunno2:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #55 on: October 20, 2012, 12:23:38 AM »
I've heard about verses taken out of context but a word in a verse is out of context?
HS inspired that word to be placed there. How can it be out of context?
Perhaps you hold a common view  similar to: 'especially' is a wrong translation and actually should be translated as 'that is' ?
A view that's easily refuted I must add.

What does all in all mean? All in some?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 10:51:16 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline CHB

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Re: My Views on 1 Tim 4:10
« Reply #56 on: October 20, 2012, 01:25:42 AM »
   My View is That   1 Tim 4:10 does NOT show that Jesus will save all Mankind,
both Believers and Non-Believers,  Where it says
"Especially of those who believe"  The Word "Especially" is taken
OUT OF CONTEXT and is just used as a  Figure of Speech, just like  "All in All" :dunno2:

What about the ALL in these verses, is it taken out of contex?

(Col. 1:17-18) And he is before ALL things, and by him ALL things consist. That in ALL things he might have the preeminence.

(Verse 20) And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to RECONCILE ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF.

CHB

Offline micah7:9

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #57 on: October 20, 2012, 01:27:24 AM »
I've heard about verses take out of context but a word in a verse is out of context?
HS inspired that word to be placed there. How can it be out of context?
Perhaps you hold a common view  similar to: 'especially' is a wrong translation and actually should be translated as 'that is' ?
A view that's easily refunded I must add.

What does all in all mean? All in some?

I'll wait with you WW. I'm curious :HeartThrob:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: My Views on 1 Tim 4:10
« Reply #58 on: October 20, 2012, 11:08:01 AM »
   My View is That   1 Tim 4:10 does NOT show that Jesus will save all Mankind,
both Believers and Non-Believers,  Where it says
"Especially of those who believe"  The Word "Especially" is taken
OUT OF CONTEXT and is just used as a  Figure of Speech, just like  "All in All" :dunno2:

What about the ALL in these verses, is it taken out of contex?

(Col. 1:17-18) And he is before ALL things, and by him ALL things consist. That in ALL things he might have the preeminence.

(Verse 20) And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to RECONCILE ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF.

CHB
Context is a double edged sword.
How far the context reaches? 1 verse. 10? Chapter? Whole Bible? Usually context stops when it proves the view of the poster. (selective)

Once I've read a very good example about why all isn't always all.
A teacher said: Because it's such a hot summer day I'm going to buy everyone an ice cream!
Did the teacher plan to buy 7 billion ice creams? Or just for the kids in class?
I think that's valid reasoning. But it only can being proven by context.
So when Jesus said all will be saved should we just focus on that single word all? Or figure out if He was speaking like the teacher to a small class.

You and I agree. But be both know "...the saviour of all men..." isn't enough to convince everyone.
   
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #59 on: October 20, 2012, 04:44:27 PM »
White wings:
A flaw with the teacher and the ice cream cones. The teacher was not "connected" in anyway with those outside the class.
Certainly not the way the creator is connected with his creation.
Also, the reason for the ice cream was a "hot summer day" as opposed to the Creator wanting his creation to be with him always.
Also, by the shed blood of Jesus, the ice cream cones, in essence, have already been bought and paid for for the whole world.
Also, this illustration has nothing to do with good and evil, punishment and reward, judgment and relationship, hope and love.(unless you count the students "loving" the teacher for her treat.
Hmmm... breaking it down, the analogy doesn't seem as good as when I first read it and was somewhat in agreement. :laughing7:
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 05:43:39 PM by ded2daworld »
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline CHB

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Re: My Views on 1 Tim 4:10
« Reply #60 on: October 20, 2012, 05:24:35 PM »
   My View is That   1 Tim 4:10 does NOT show that Jesus will save all Mankind,
both Believers and Non-Believers,  Where it says
"Especially of those who believe"  The Word "Especially" is taken
OUT OF CONTEXT and is just used as a  Figure of Speech, just like  "All in All" :dunno2:

What about the ALL in these verses, is it taken out of contex?

(Col. 1:17-18) And he is before ALL things, and by him ALL things consist. That in ALL things he might have the preeminence.

(Verse 20) And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to RECONCILE ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF.

CHB
Context is a double edged sword.
How far the context reaches? 1 verse. 10? Chapter? Whole Bible? Usually context stops when it proves the view of the poster. (selective)

Once I've read a very good example about why all isn't always all.
A teacher said: Because it's such a hot summer day I'm going to buy everyone an ice cream!
Did the teacher plan to buy 7 billion ice creams? Or just for the kids in class?
I think that's valid reasoning. But it only can being proven by context.
So when Jesus said all will be saved should we just focus on that single word all? Or figure out if He was speaking like the teacher to a small class.

You and I agree. But be both know "...the saviour of all men..." isn't enough to convince everyone.

I thought about that WW but I agree with what dead2daworld said, there is just no comparison.

CHB

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #61 on: October 20, 2012, 05:39:12 PM »
White wings:
Another  flaw
Another?
Quote
with the teacher and the ice cream cones. The teacher was not "connected" in anyway with those outside the class.
Surely there is a connection with the outside of the class. It's called the world they live in.

Snipped the rest for being off-topic to this example.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #62 on: October 20, 2012, 05:48:50 PM »
 go to 'every'  Philipians 2;10....every instead of all....every knee bow  every tongue confess.....everyone that

  calls on the name of the Lord...TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER..........

   we are to expect that at Christ's secound coming...He come in the GLORY OF THE FATHER..........

   Jesus said...'what is impossible with men..is possible with God."  in reply to his disciples that

   were questioning Him about the number of those saved.........worth a try? :dontknow:

Offline Jeremias

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2012, 05:37:31 AM »
I only read the 1st page of this discussion.

2 major things helped me see the eventual salvation of all.

1.)  How can I reconcile these two diametrically opposed ideas:  God is Love.  God is a torturer. 

    a.  - Hell is a place where people burn alive, like burning at the stake but worse, without an end.  They feel the horror of their skin and body parts burning alive forever.  Ever burn your finger? :eek: God orders people to this place Hell, FOR ALL ETERNITY because they don't believe right, or act right in their 75 years on earth... punishment that lasts not for an equal 75 years, not for 150 years, not even 1000 years, not even 10,000 years, not even 1,000,000 years.

    b.  - Something about that never set right with me.  I just went along with it cuz the church said it was true.

2.)  Sheol, the Hebrew word for grave, does not mean Hell.  <--- This is a FACT!  So, how/why did it get translated as Hell?   Was it an honest mistake or a deliberate attempt to deceive?  Did someone have an agenda?

The HISTORIC FACT is... HELL IS A MYTH!!  IT IS NOT A REAL PLACE!!!  IT IS MYTHOLOGICAL!!!  THERE IS NO ONE IN THIS IMAGINARY HELL RIGHT NOW!!!  NOR WILL THERE EVER BE!!!


 


Offline ded2daworld

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #64 on: October 21, 2012, 03:33:43 PM »
Right Jeremias.
In addition, consider that we are "born in sin" "have a sin nature" are "enemies of God"
and cannot come to saving knowledge without God ordaining and/or arranging it.
God is the "author and finisher" of our salvation.
So who can be held accountable because they are a sinner to begin with?
Jesus was born of God ("and so, Mary was pregnant, being overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit of God') so that the sin nature of Adam would not be passed down to him.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline reFORMer

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2012, 08:29:58 AM »
If it is believed God is the Master Torturer, then, because His purpose in making us is to make us in His image and likeness (His Own form and similitude,) we must believe that sooner of later He will make us Master Torturers tool
_________________________________________

That, "God...is the Savior of all mankind, specially those that believe" is something I first believed at 3 am, July 18, 1981.  I knew I'd finally gone off the proverbial "deep end" and had no more hope of being accepted, but rather hated and reviled as a false teacher or false prophet by most of what passes for mainstream Christianity in our days, even 'til now.  That is why I looked at my wristwatch.  What was to me a major death had just occurred.

How many that He does not save is He the savior of?  Try to think of that until you realize what it means and what is the answer.  Eventually He performs His transforming work of salvation upon all.  For now there is a special salvation for those Firstfruits He has chosen out from among the rest, which is what makes the rest holy.  Even from them He will cause to mature an early company of Overcomers that qualify to bear His name written upon their foreheads to bring the rest in.  Even in times long past, Paul was walking in the Divine nature, fully preaching the gospel in power, it being accompanied with signs and wonders to make the nations obedient to His will.

Romans 1518-19 (KJV)
[18] For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, [19] Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline lomarah

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2012, 03:40:22 AM »
If it is believed God is the Master Torturer, then, because His purpose in making us is to make us in His image and likeness (His Own form and similitude,) we must believe that sooner of later He will make us Master Torturers tool
_________________________________________

That, "God...is the Savior of all mankind, specially those that believe" is something I first believed at 3 am, July 18, 1981.  I knew I'd finally gone off the proverbial "deep end" and had no more hope of being accepted, but rather hated and reviled as a false teacher or false prophet by most of what passes for mainstream Christianity in our days, even 'til now.  That is why I looked at my wristwatch.  What was to me a major death had just occurred.

How many that He does not save is He the savior of?  Try to think of that until you realize what it means and what is the answer.  Eventually He performs His transforming work of salvation upon all.  For now there is a special salvation for those Firstfruits He has chosen out from among the rest, which is what makes the rest holy.  Even from them He will cause to mature an early company of Overcomers that qualify to bear His name written upon their foreheads to bring the rest in.  Even in times long past, Paul was walking in the Divine nature, fully preaching the gospel in power, it being accompanied with signs and wonders to make the nations obedient to His will.

Romans 1518-19 (KJV)
[18] For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, [19] Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Awesome.   :HeartThrob:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

TheAuthenticFan

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You Cannot Prove Universalism is True
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2012, 11:20:12 PM »
  You cannot Prove Universalism is True, from the Bible alone, it is
Only a  Possibility,  The  Bible  HOPELESSLY  Contradicts Itself, and you cannot Make the Pieces of this Huge Puzzle fit, Only God Knows

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2012, 11:35:45 PM »
You keep saying "you" meaning us, the rest of the forum people
when actually you are saying "you" meaning yourself.
Believe what you want, you have been shown numerous times and have had numerous
scripture "proofs" and you keep coming back to the same questions that were already answered.

ET people say, if you're (UR)right and I'm (ET) wrong I'll be okay in the end, but if I'm (ET) right and you're (UR) wrong you'll burn in hell forever.
Personally, if God was like the ET god, I'd just as soon burn becuz that would mean the devil is more powerful.
I do know that it's impossible to truly love someone and believe the God of Love that you love failed to make a provision for them they will burn in hell for all eternity. Would that give you joy and peace for all time?
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

TheAuthenticFan

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The Debate is NOT Over
« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2012, 08:37:49 PM »
  If  Universalism or Eternal Torment is True, you cannot proove it either way from the
Bible Alone, You Cannot,   NO ONE has Proven from the Bible Alone that
Universalism or Eternal Torment is True, No One Knows,
No one has Proven either Eternal Torment or  UR,
What about  Near-Death Expieriences, do they Support  Universalism

Offline sheila

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2012, 09:31:29 PM »
some do,some don't.

   Ester 1;8   By the King's command each guest was allowed to drink in his own way,for the king

  instructed all the wine stewards to serve each man what he wished..

   Ester gave two Banquets......

  there are two banquets in Revelations also, Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper

  of the Lamb..'These are the true words of God.

  and this one 'come gather togather for the great supper of God[birds flying in mid-air/babylon cage of

  unclean birds]  so that you may eat the flesh of  kings,generals mighty men[not Christ's flesh]


    for one..the love of truth is in them..the other..the love of truth is not in

    If you love truth..Christ will set you free..if not you may be confined in a cage[church] in babylon

   when you are set free from babylon..you are as the dove whoflies to her dovecote..or as unclean

  bird spirit that gorges on flesh.

   Isthe love of truth/God in you? then ask,seek,knock..and He will come and sup with you

   ask Him for His holy spirit to guide you and deliver you from the snares of the evil one.

  Psalms 74;19  do not hand over the life of your dove to wild beasts...

 

   

Offline lomarah

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2012, 11:17:52 PM »
 :cloud9:  :thumbsup:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

TheAuthenticFan

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What about the Book--- Universal Salvation: The Current Debate
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2012, 11:34:52 PM »
    Available at bookstores,  Also  99 percent of Christians and all the Mainstream Churches say
Universalism is NOT of the Bible, and is False Doctrine, can they all be Wrong
     Did anyone read    Universal Salvation: The Current Debate,  It lets the Reader decide for themselves.

Offline sheila

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2012, 11:45:07 PM »
Haven't read it or even heardof it TAF.  Jesus said,wide is the road that leads to destruction and many

  are on it .  But narrow the path that leads to eternal life.

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: I am Very Skeptical over Universalism
« Reply #74 on: November 02, 2012, 01:44:08 AM »
Taf, hopefully, you will read much scripture,pray about it and read the posts at this website.
To me it boiled down towould I worship a God of Love, or a God of hate?
Personally, I would RATHER be tortured for all eternity than worship a God of hate.
In other words, if the ET'ers are right, I refuse to worship their God and gladly go to eternal torment -
For I KNOW whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I've committed to my God of love.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"