Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Discussions on Universal Salvation

I'm sorry John 12:32- does NOT show Universalism

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TheAuthenticFan:
   Where Jesus says "I will lift up all men to myself"
     This just shows they shall be lifted up to Jesus- to be Judged, NOT that all are Saved, it does Not imply that,  Maybe "All men" in this verse means, "All types of" but mentions Nothing of Salvation
See  Explanation in the book
"All Dogs go to Heaven, don't they" by R. Maurice Smith :Peace2:

ded2daworld:
IMO-
The next verse says that "Jesus said this to show the kind of death he was to die."
Q.)What kind of death was it?
A.) A sacrificial, substitutionary death on a cross for all the sins of humanity.
Q.) What was Jesus going to do "when he was lifted up"?
A. ) He said he would "draw"(the greek is literally DRAG) ALL men
Q.) Where/
A.) To HIMSELF.

This "All dogs go to heaven, don't they" is this a theological exposition of the scriptures, or some guys opinion?
It's hard for me to trust a book with the title like that over the word of God, buy, maybe that's just me.
An implication is just that. If you want to refute a scriptural implication, you must use scripture to refute.  :Peace2:

Lazarus Short:
Happily, UT does not depend on John 12:32 as its only proof text.  Anyway, if lifting everyone up to Himself is for judgment, it's a poor way to phrase it, for judgment is almost always done with the person being judged being placed below the judge.  "...will draw all men unto Me" connects in my mind to what Jesus said elsewhere about Himself as the Shepherd, and people being the sheep of His pasture.  Jesus was always careful with words.   

ded2daworld:
He had to be careful Laz. "My word will NEVER pass away." :laughing7:

VineBranch:

--- Quote from: TheAuthenticFan on November 23, 2012, 07:00:33 PM ---Where Jesus says "I will lift up all men to myself"

--- End quote ---

Actually what he said was "draw".  Joh 12:32  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all  men unto me.

Christ didn't say he would get everyone together for something.  He said he would draw them to him: not to a place, or to a thing, or to a time, or to a rehearsal dinner, or to a judgement.  Keep the context.  A few verses later he talks about walking in the light, and told the folk to walk in the light while they still had it.  From the context it would seem to me that Christ is saying I will draw them to me, the light.  This makes sense from the context.

I copied and pasted John 12 into a text editor and asked it to find the word judgement:  it didn't find one instance.  May I respectfully ask:   Where do you read judgement in the text?  No where do I see a discussion of Chirst's motivation beyond wanting the people to walk in the light.

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