Author Topic: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?  (Read 10281 times)

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Offline thinktank

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #125 on: June 23, 2011, 11:57:40 PM »
Jesus never actually changed the way he spoke, he was actually repeating what he'd been saying all along.  It was just the disciples finally matured into a place spiritually where they could finally see what it was he was saying the whole time. 

It's all in personal perspective I guess.


John 16

7Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father?

 18They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.

 19Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

But here the disciples don't understand what Jesus is saying. It is only a few verses later that they say, "know you speak plainly and we know you are the Son of God"

I feel that the days we now live in is a time where the truths of the bible are spoken more plainly than ever before, to reach out the the highways and the byways, so that all kinds of people can learn the truth of Jesus and not just a advantage few.

 :2c:




Offline Nathan

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #126 on: June 24, 2011, 01:55:45 AM »
Oh yeah, I totally agree with you there . . . for such a time as this.  God is revealing and unveiling more and more as Jesus is resurrecting "his" church in us and through us.  These are definitely times where the illumination of his light and life are being revealed more and more and the mainline church will be having less and less impact.

Offline jabcat

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #127 on: June 24, 2011, 02:39:26 AM »
Jesus hid things from the masses and revealed them to the "inner circle", his disciples.  In fact, He told the disciples clearly as much, and stated it was "lest they [the masses/Jews] believe and turn".

"To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables; so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand; lest they turn again, and be forgiven" (Mark 4:11-12).

...consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening".  Romans 9:18

So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.  Romans 9:16

It's about His timing and will.  Every knee will bow, every tongue confess, but "each in his own turn".
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 02:44:28 AM by jabcat »

Offline Nathan

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #128 on: June 24, 2011, 03:01:23 AM »
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


TT a parable is not spoken in order to hide its meaning and parable is spoken in order to reveal the meaning of something hidden. To us (the child of God) it is given to know the mysteries but as those who do not know God, (those mysteries the child of God know) Jesus spoke in parables so that they would come to know those mysteries.

The people saw and heard about the things of God but could not understand the mystery, therefore, Jesus spoke in parables so that they would be able to understand the mysteries.

People have a wrong understanding of what a parable is, it is not to hide the secrets but to bring the secrets to light.

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.


Wow . . .somehow I missed this one . . .this was really good!  I enjoyed it THOROUGHLY!!!   :bigGrin:

Offline eaglesway

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #129 on: June 24, 2011, 05:20:16 AM »
A parable is meant to reveal what is hidden to the humble and the seeking, while at the same time hiding what is being revealed from the haughty and those who esteem themselves more highly than they ought.

That seeing they might not perceive and hearing they might not understand

The cornerstone becomes a stumbling block to those who cannot "humble themselves under the mighty hand of God"

To the one who has (a humble seeking heart), more shall be given
To the one who has not(having become arrogant, self assured) even that which he has shall be taken away(that which was once living revelation will become rotten manna, or dead letter/law)

With the measure you mete so shall you be measured

If any man thinks he knows anything he knows not yet as he ought to know

Who has known the mind of the Lord and who has been His counselor

But we have a wisdom we speak among the mature- a wisdom covered in the divine nature

If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
(1Co 13:2)



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Offline jabcat

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #130 on: June 24, 2011, 05:37:32 AM »

The people saw and heard about the things of God but could not understand the mystery, therefore, Jesus spoke in parables so that they would be able to understand the mysteries.

People have a wrong understanding of what a parable is, it is not to hide the secrets but to bring the secrets to light.



Wow . . .somehow I missed this one . . .this was really good!  I enjoyed it THOROUGHLY!!!   :bigGrin:

Hi Nathan.  You believe parables were spoken so people could more easily understand?  I don't believe that's the case AT ALL.  I know the orthodox view is such, but I think it's pretty far off base.  I believe the scriptures generally teach just the opposite - at least/especially when it came to Jesus' earthly ministry.  :2c:

Amen Eaglesway   :thumbsup:

Offline eaglesway

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #131 on: June 24, 2011, 05:43:57 AM »
Hi James, Nathan

I was actually saying that parables do both at the same time- :o)

Reveal things to babes

Hide things from the wise and prudent

Jesus never said it should be easy ;o)

At least, not until we get yoked up.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline jabcat

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #132 on: June 24, 2011, 06:23:23 AM »
Hi John, yes, I agree...that's what Jesus said;  to those to whom it has (by grace) been given.  Not to those taking the broad road.

pneuma

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #133 on: June 24, 2011, 04:57:41 PM »
A parable is a "dark saying"

Jesus is the "light"

A parable by itself stays hidden in the "darkness", but when the "light" comes, the parable is understood.

Therefore, when Jesus (who is the light) spoke in parables it was to bring into light that which was once in darkness.

Look at all the times in scripture Jesus spoke a parable and the Scribes and the Pharisees perceived that He spoke it of them. These were not humble men, but proud and haughty men and the parable Jesus spoke opened their eyes to the truth.

A parable is to bring to light that which was in darkness.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #134 on: June 24, 2011, 05:02:00 PM »
 :cloud9: Hi pneuma.....  :hijacked: Just wanted to say it's good to see you back posting...... :girlheart:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Nathan

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #135 on: June 24, 2011, 06:50:08 PM »
Hey Jabcat . . .I think you got confused in the way the thread opened up here . .. I don't think at all that parables were given so the general population could find it easier to grasp.  I was actually arguing 'against" that . . .TT was suggesting that he thought Jesus could have done a better job delivering his message rather than talking over everyone's head.  I saw red flags all around that.  I think Jesus spoke parables because people who had erected and worshiped their own religious idols brought about a spiritual deafness and blindness and the parables were an illumination to that.  They were hung up on what he was literally saying, yet those to whom the Spriit was still able to speak to went away in joy rather than angst because they could see what it really meant.  The disciples were not seeing at the time, but Jesus proclaimed regardless of the struggles they may have been having, they had the ability to see what he was saying.  My point was, there was no struggle on God's part as he was communicating with us, the struggle was, us laying down our idols so that we could see what he was saying in the first place.

Offline jabcat

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #136 on: June 25, 2011, 12:09:35 AM »
Nathan.  I was clarifying what you believed, as you seemed to be agreeing with pneuma's post.  He said "Jesus spoke in parables so that they would be able to understand the mysteries - People have a wrong understanding of what a parable is, it is not to hide the secrets but to bring the secrets to light."

So since you gave it a "thumbs up" and seemed enthused about it, I was asking what you really believe - and saying I see it differently. 

In general, it seems a question might be, did Jesus say "It's been given to them to know the secrets of the kingdom, that's why I'm speaking to them in parables;  so they can understand"? 

Your statement here in your last post -  "I don't think at all that parables were given so the general population could find it easier to grasp.  I was actually arguing 'against" that"   (along with what Jesus Himself said) answers that question. 

"..for those outside everything is in parables; so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand.."   Jesus, quoted in Mark 4.

So TT, I wouldn't personally say Jesus could have done a better job.  I believe He was doing exactly as was intended;  showing whom He chose to show at that time, and hiding it from those vessels fitted for destruction (to be brought in fully, but in God's will and timing, not man's).  As Molly said recently, the plan would seem to be one of exclusion, if one didn't understand the workings of God's plan for the ages.  Well said Molly!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 12:40:44 AM by jabcat »

Offline Nathan

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #137 on: June 25, 2011, 01:26:47 AM »
So sorry Jabcat . . .I was ALL mixed up . . .still probably am.  My mind's a bit scattered today. Maybe I misunderstood what was being said.  In short, I see the parables doing an array of things.  One, it had a moral truth (the literal story itself) Two, it has a spiritual truth, but only those who were able to see through the spirit were able to embrace it.  Three, it revealed those that were blind, and those that could see.  Four, it fulfilled the prophecies foretold. 

But for me, none of the reasons were so natural minds could comprehend spiritual truths . . .as another post I did recently points to that spiritual speaks to spiritual and flesh to flesh.  But spiritual was not watered down so those in the flesh could remain there and still partake of spiritual truth.  If you are thirsty for spiritual water, ya gotta leave the earthy banks and get in the river . . . there is an effort to labor into the rest of God.

I apologize for the confusion.

Offline jabcat

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #138 on: June 25, 2011, 01:35:48 AM »
 :bigGrin:   It's OK.  I very well could have been confused, wouldn't be the first time.   :wacko2:

I know you've got lots on your mind, don't give it a second thought.  Good points.   :thumbsup:

Offline Molly

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #139 on: June 25, 2011, 01:54:21 AM »
 10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

 11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

--Mat 13

Offline Nathan

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #140 on: June 25, 2011, 02:03:31 AM »
I really like the Message translation on this . . .it points to the fact that the parables are to make people thirsty for deeper things . . .

10The disciples came up and asked, "Why do you tell stories?"
 11-15He replied, "You've been given insight into God's kingdom. You know how it works. Not everybody has this gift, this insight; it hasn't been given to them. Whenever someone has a ready heart for this, the insights and understandings flow freely. But if there is no readiness, any trace of receptivity soon disappears. That's why I tell stories: to create readiness, to nudge the people toward receptive insight. In their present state they can stare till doomsday and not see it, listen till they're blue in the face and not get it. I don't want Isaiah's forecast repeated all over again:

   Your ears are open but you don't hear a thing.
      Your eyes are awake but you don't see a thing.
   The people are blockheads!
   They stick their fingers in their ears
      so they won't have to listen;
   They screw their eyes shut
      so they won't have to look,
      so they won't have to deal with me face-to-face
      and let me heal them.


Offline jabcat

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #141 on: June 25, 2011, 02:14:23 AM »
Bro. Nathan, I believe I hear some orthodox interpretation in that passage from the Message.  I hear them assuming Jesus was "trying to get them to see".

Let me give another translation that's very literal from the Koine Greek, the Christian Bible (1991). 

..because to know the secrets of the heavenly Kingdom has been given to you, yet it hasn't been given to them.  For whoever uses what he has, more will be given to him, and he will have an abundance;  yet whoever doesn't use what he has, even what he had, will be taken away from him.  For this reason, I speak to them in illustrations, because though they observe, they don't observe;  and though they hear, they don't hear, neither do they understand.  So Isaiah's prophecy is being fulfilled in them, saying, "you will keep on hearing, but shall by no means understand;  and you will keep on observing, but shall by no means have any awareness..."

Wat'cha think?

Offline eaglesway

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #142 on: June 25, 2011, 03:59:10 AM »
It seems that there is a conundrum that is always present- a paradox. Either God cannot do what He says He wants to do, or we are unable to interpret what He is saying He wants to do.

In Revelations 10 there is an angel standing with one foot on the land and the other in the sea. He is clothed in a cloud(we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses). His head is in heaven( our head is Christ, at God's right hand, head over all things to the church),because there is a rainbow around His head(we are seated in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, and there is a rainbow around His throne) His face is shining like the sun and(just in case you were wondering if this is really a picture of the ONE NEW MAN) his feet are as pillars of fire- and in his hand is a little book. John is given the book, and told to eat it. Then He is told that He must prophesy before kings and peoples and nations.

We can't get into this mighty messenger unless we eat the book. You can read it all you want to, and be blessed by it as you will, but until you EAT IT, you are a passenger in a child safety seat.

Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father.
(Gal 4:1-2)

We all with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the image of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image, form glory to glory, by the Spirit, who is the Lord......But it is until WE ALL ATTAIN to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. Oh if only we could move as one into the mind of Christ, be admitted together into the councils of God, dwell in the eternal burnings together, become a corporate messenger in the power of the Spirit!

How beautiful upon the mountains
   Are the feet of him who brings good news,
   Who proclaims peace,
   Who brings glad tidings of good things,
   Who proclaims salvation,
   Who says to Zion,

   " Your God reigns!"


Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices,
       They shout joyfully together;
        For they will see with their own eyes
        When the LORD restores Zion.
(Isa 52:7,8)




Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined. Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. Gather my saints(holy ones,i.e.called out ones...separate ones) together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.
(Psa 50:2-5)

Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
(Rom 12:1-5)

Until we eat the book that is bitter in our belly, we are not living epistles read of all men. Servants of the Lord, Sons of god, a Kngdom of Priests - many are called but few are chosen........it is hard to digest- my life is not my own, to live is Christ, to die is gain

When I was a child I spake as a child, but when I became a man I put away childish things.

Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father.
(Gal 4:1-2)

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.............. He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.) And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a RESULT, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
(Eph 4:1-16)

God have mercy :o)

We are meant to be a part of how God saved mankind- but I don't think we get it!

« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 04:07:25 AM by eaglesway »
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pneuma

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #143 on: June 25, 2011, 09:25:43 PM »
Matthew 13:34-35
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.


If this scripture is true then the thought that Jesus spoke in parables to hide the secrets CANNOT be correct.


A parable is something that is used to set side by side with the truth in order to illuminate the truth. It is not set side by side with the truth in order to hide the truth.

Jesus being the truth and the light can only speak truth and light, therefore He does not hide the light in a parable He uses a parable to illuminate the light.


So let's set side by side the KJV and Young's literal (YL) and see if we can understand if these parables were to illuminate or to hide the meaning.
 
KJV
Matthew 13:10-23
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
 
YL
10 And the disciples having come near, said to him, `Wherefore in similes dost thou speak to them?'
 
This is pretty plain; the disciples are asking Jesus why He spoke unto the multitudes in parables.
 
KJV
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
 
YL
11 And he answering said to them that -- `To you it hath been given to know the secrets of the reign of the heavens, and to these it hath not been given,
 
Jesus answer to the question is The Child of God knows the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and to those who are without it has not been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.
 
Jesus did not speak the parables so the child of God would know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, He spoke in parables so that those without could understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.

To put it in our everyday language
Why do you speak to them in parables? Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.
 
Jesus spoke the parables that they might know the mysteries, as the mysteries were already given to the child of God.
 
This is brought out more fully here
 
KJV
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.  

YL
12 for whoever hath, it shall be given to him, and he shall have overabundance, and whoever hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken from him. 13 `Because of this, in similes do I speak to them, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor understand,
 
Jesus continues to explain why He speaks to them in parables.

The question is still why do you speak to them in parables.

Jesus answer is because they seeing do not see and hearing do not hear, nor understand.
 
To put it in our everyday language.
Why do you speak to them in parables? Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and because they seeing do not see and they hearing do not hear, nor understand. 


Jesus is NOT saying He speaks in parables so that those seeing would not see and those hearing would not hear. He IS saying He speaks in parables because they do not see, hear or understand.
 
Jesus is bringing to light those things they do not understand.
 
 
KJV
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
 
YL
14 and fulfilled on them is the prophecy of Isaiah, that saith, With hearing ye shall hear, and ye shall not understand, and seeing ye shall see, and ye shall not perceive, 15 for made gross was the heart of this people, and with the ears they heard heavily, and their eyes they did close, lest they might see with the eyes, and with the ears might hear, and with the heart understand, and turn back, and I might heal them.
 
 
These scriptures are misunderstood by those who believe Jesus spoke in parables in order to hide His message.
 
Their understanding goes something like this.
Jesus hides the truth in parables so that the multitudes would NOT turn to Him, would not be converted and so could not be healed.
 
This understanding is in total disregards to what Jesus said why He spoke to the multitudes in parables. It is also in disregards to His purpose in coming into the world to save everyone in it.
 
 
What those scriptures are saying is that Isaiah prophesied that the multitudes in Jesus day would be hearing, and not hear, seeing, and not see because their heart had waxed gross. Jesus is saying because of these things, the heart waxing gross, the heavy ears, the closed eyes is the reason He had to speak to them in parables.  


Why do you speak to them in parables? Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and because they seeing do not see and they hearing do not hear, nor understand. 


This all comes to a head here the accumulation of what was said regarding the reason Jesus spoke in parables.
 
KJV
34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.  

YL
' 34 All these things spake Jesus in similes to the multitudes, and without a simile he was not speaking to them, 35 that it might be fulfilled that was spoken through the prophet, saying, `I will open in similes my mouth, I will utter things having been hidden from the foundation of the world.' 


So the answer to whys Jesus spoke in parables is this.

Because they do not know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and because they seeing do not see and they hearing do not hear, nor understand. I open my mouth in parables to utter things that have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
 
Jesus did not utter parables to keep hidden the secrets, but to illuminate the secrets that were hidden from the foundation of the world.

God bless

pneuma

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #144 on: June 25, 2011, 09:26:35 PM »
:cloud9: Hi pneuma.....  :hijacked: Just wanted to say it's good to see you back posting...... :girlheart:

Thanks Card :boyheart:

pneuma

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #145 on: June 25, 2011, 09:31:39 PM »
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.


TT a parable is not spoken in order to hide its meaning and parable is spoken in order to reveal the meaning of something hidden. To us (the child of God) it is given to know the mysteries but as those who do not know God, (those mysteries the child of God know) Jesus spoke in parables so that they would come to know those mysteries.

The people saw and heard about the things of God but could not understand the mystery, therefore, Jesus spoke in parables so that they would be able to understand the mysteries.

People have a wrong understanding of what a parable is, it is not to hide the secrets but to bring the secrets to light.

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.


Wow . . .somehow I missed this one . . .this was really good!  I enjoyed it THOROUGHLY!!!   :bigGrin:


Thanks Nathan.

My mom always says you know the truth of something when you get a leaping in the womb as John jumped in the womb when He heard the salutation of Mary.

God bless

Offline sheila

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #146 on: June 25, 2011, 09:45:05 PM »
 different POV


       they were SUPPOSED TO BE BLINDED TIL THE FULL NUMBER OF THE GENTILES COME IN   to humble them for their arrogance...so NO FLESH COULD BOAST

Offline sheila

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #147 on: June 25, 2011, 09:47:24 PM »


    very same thing He's done today to organized religion...PRIDE,ARROGANCE......let the harlots and tax-collectors be first

Offline sheila

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #148 on: June 25, 2011, 10:06:53 PM »


     those things wer to  be revealed in His time......the Revelation of Christ..the unsealing..the mysteries of godliness and iniquity   He makes them jealous by a people

  with     no   understanding  People they despised    Today,Babylon Christendom,does the very same thing..saying who they see fit for destruction,while

 they apply a generous serving of grace to themselves..they skimp grace to others. The rulee's want someone to rule over

    He said,I WILL NOT GIVE MY GLORY TO ANOTHER......why should the glory of God be given unto the Prince of this world...Jesus said

  you are not to be like the nations whose benefactors Lord it over others

    He may have opened His mouth in parables..but the blind did not see nor the deaf hear unless He opened their eyes and ears

pneuma

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Re: How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?
« Reply #149 on: June 25, 2011, 10:17:29 PM »
Quote
He may have opened His mouth in parables..but the blind did not see nor the deaf hear unless He opened their eyes and ears

He did open their eyes and ears, and it was done by parables.

He goes on to explain that He sowed good seed and the devil, the worldly cares etc. contended with that good seed and overpower it so to speak before it has time to get its roots sunk into the deep soil.