How exactly did jesus "save" mankind?

[micah7:9]

"Re-read your question. Us is mankind.  Show me some scripture that proves that people were in paradise until Jesus was resurrected.

Where and what is paradise? Who do you think goes there?  By the resurrection of Jesus he defeated death and because he was resurrected so will every one else be resurrected in their own time period."

CHB

Amen Amen.

[Molly]

Man was given the carnal mind in the garden by the Nephesh.

7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

 8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

 9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

 10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

 11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

 12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 

That doesn't say the woman told him he was naked.  In the next line, the woman blames the Nachash.  It's clear that God agrees.

13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

 14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.



In your way of thinking, what does it mean for enmity to be put between the seed of the woman and the seed of the Nachash?

[WhiteWings]

My guess is the 2 compartments of hades view comes from the Rich man  and Lazarus parable.

^YLTLuke 23
43 and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'

Jesus lives in paradise. Jesus lives in Heaven with Father. Paradise is in hades. Heaven is a place in Hades.

^YLTRev 20
14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;

Then heaven/paradise is cast in LoF.

Dunno that's entirely correct 

[micah7:9]

"My guess is the 2 compartments of hades view comes from the Rich man  and Lazarus parable." WW

I agree with this.

[WhiteWings]

A supporting view is that Jesus went to hell/hades to preach to the spirits in prison during the three days He was in the grave.

[nes]

My guess is the 2 compartments of hades view comes from the Rich man  and Lazarus parable.

^YLTLuke 23
43 and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'

He said that the day of his death, you don't think that the resurrection happened the same time jesus died right?

Jesus lives in paradise. Jesus lives in Heaven with Father. Paradise is in hades. Heaven is a place in Hades.

^YLTRev 20
14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;

Then heaven/paradise is cast in LoF.

Dunno that's entirely correct 

It's not correct, it's completely wrong.  It doesn't matter if the paradise side of hades is cast to the lake of fire because everyone left the paradise side of hades when jesus was resurrected.  Paradise = Abraham's bosom.

So tell me, if Abraham's bosom/paradise was heaven, why did jesus ASCEND out of it?
Ephes. 4:7-10
captives?

[Taffy]

My guess is the 2 compartments of hades view comes from the Rich man  and Lazarus parable.

^YLTLuke 23
43 and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'

Jesus lives in paradise. Jesus lives in Heaven with Father. Paradise is in hades. Heaven is a place in Hades.

^YLTRev 20
14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;

Then heaven/paradise is cast in LoF.

Dunno that's entirely correct 

how about Paradise is HID in Hades , HIM being the mind \seed within behind the veil of the heart--- so death which conceals it is Hades which is Cast into the FIRE which reveals paradise ---?

[Taffy]

Man was given the carnal mind in the garden by the Nephesh.

7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

 8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

 9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

 10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

 11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

 12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 

That doesn't say the woman told him he was naked.  In the next line, the woman blames the Nachash.  It's clear that God agrees.

13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

 14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.



In your way of thinking, what does it mean for enmity to be put between the seed of the woman and the seed of the Nachash?

missed this Molly  

the serpent is within the MIND MOLLY --its the darkness,within- the Blindness, the ignorance, the pride , that which births earthy Judgment----  the serpent crawls in the DUST-- thats OUR mind Molly--- the DARKNESSwhich cant raise to the LELEL of spiritual Undertsanding and the LIFE which is--- this MIND lives OUTSIDE of the spiritual MIND which should dwell inside---

   the enmity   is as ipreviously stated Molly --- the two MINDS within --- the DOUBLE minded man--- is neither one way or the other--- the carnal MIND FIGHTs the spiritual Mind- ie the Battles are within the MIND--- we yeild to HIS mind in US -

the serpent is subtle and decives within us Molly - Just one ANIMAL we are called to overcome-- tis why The Unclean beasts in TWOS- two minded] entered the ARK- with Noah - he was 600 yrs OLD when he entered and when  entered  he took with him the very Nature of the Beasts he was to OVERCOME within----both Clean and Unclean Beasts-- the unclean are to be overcome in us--the bear the lion the Fox, etc-- all parts of the nature of MEN---

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

I am truly sorry for stirring up the bee hive. Lee

[Taffy]

I am truly sorry for stirring up the bee hive. Lee

No worries Lee

[Beloved Servant]

I am truly sorry for stirring up the bee hive. Lee

 beehive?

[Taffy]

I am truly sorry for stirring up the bee hive. Lee

 beehive?

Bees are GOOD-- they MAKE HONEY ---
Dance to the figure of EIGHT-- 
Circle Dance
If the food source is less than 100 metres from the hive, the bee does a circle, or round dance. During the dance, the bee stops to give samples of the nectar, or to allow the pollen on her back legs to be inspected. The dance appears to say simply that there is food close to the hive. No distance or directional information is given.

Figure of Eight Dance
If the food source is more than 100 metres from the hive, the dance changes to a figure of eight pattern. When the bee passes through the centre of the eight, she wags her tail. The longer the time spent wagging, the further away the food is. Again the dancing bee gives out samples.

The angle of the wagtail section of the dance shows the direction of the food source. The angle formed between the vertical and the straight section of the figure of eight in the dance is the same as the angle formed at the hive between the present position of the sun and the direction of the food.

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

Ok, I am blown away. thanks

[thinktank]

My maths teacher is the bees knees!

[Blake Murray]

The Gospel is the message that provides mankind with inspired information about what God the Father and Christ Jesus did for mankind before the foundation of the world that got mankind saved! That is what the true teaching of the Gospel is all about and what Christ came to teach. Surprisingly, the simplicity of the subject is forcefully shown by the apostles in the New Testament, but the understanding of it has become one of the most complicated and even contradictory topics in the whole of the Bible. Theologians and laity alike have such diverse views on the means to obtain salvation and what salvation entails in the first place.
       
The apostle Paul made the subject of salvation in Christ to be a very simple matter. He said that people were saved even before the world was founded. That's right. Even before Adam and Eve were created, God already had it in His plan to save the humans He was going to create. Carefully notice what the apostle Paul said that shows this essential fact of the Gospel.
     "Who hath saved us, and, called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began." (2 Timothy 1:9)
        What the Gospel of Jesus Christ provides is a notification to humans that they were saved in Christ even before the foundation of the world. It also shows why humans have been placed on earth and what God has planned to do for them in a future spiritual existence that will be glorious indeed. The message of the Gospel is simply God's blueprint to explain why he created mankind (both males and females and all the various races and divisions of mankind) and what mankind has been created to become.
        Every single human being who has ever lived, who is living now, or who will ever live is involved in that blueprint that was established by God the Father before the foundation of the world. The goal for mankind in this wonderful plan was adopted and secured long before the first man and woman were created. The ultimate success of the plan was also known by God the Father and Christ Jesus before it was put into operation with the creation of Adam and Eve. The apostle James recorded the foreknowledge of God in all of His works that He plans:


"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." (Acts 15:18)     
                                                                     
        God made a plan at the very beginning to save the human race that He was going to create. That plan was put into action and verified by the purpose and will of God the Father before the foundation of the world. Here again are the words of the apostle Paul:
    "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." (Ephesians 1:3–5)

[Cardinal]

Bees are GOOD-- they MAKE HONEY ---
Dance to the figure of EIGHT-- 
Circle Dance
If the food source is less than 100 metres from the hive, the bee does a circle, or round dance. During the dance, the bee stops to give samples of the nectar, or to allow the pollen on her back legs to be inspected. The dance appears to say simply that there is food close to the hive. No distance or directional information is given.

Figure of Eight Dance
If the food source is more than 100 metres from the hive, the dance changes to a figure of eight pattern. When the bee passes through the centre of the eight, she wags her tail. The longer the time spent wagging, the further away the food is. Again the dancing bee gives out samples.

The angle of the wagtail section of the dance shows the direction of the food source. The angle formed between the vertical and the straight section of the figure of eight in the dance is the same as the angle formed at the hive between the present position of the sun and the direction of the food.

  This was just awesome......no wonder Deborah means "bee".....

[eaglesway]

The key to a renewed mind is a broken and a contrite heart. On the day of Pentecost Peter proclaimed the gospel and it says of the Sanhedrin, who were listening, that their hearts were pierced and they cried out, "Men and brethren what must we do"? 

They were in a position to hear because with a change of heart their minds were released to receive the light and be renewed. This renewal was confirmed in their obedience to the gospel. Their obedience was in the nature of a spontaneous response to what they now believed to be real and true- and an eruption of love through the wound they had received in their hearts. A wound delivered by the Sword of the Spirit, dividing asunder their soul and spirit, making manifest the thoughts and intentions of their hearts.

The carnal mind is capable of retaining tons of knowledge and even fathoming the deepest mysteries of God(1 Cor 13), all without having had that change of heart.

That is why love is so important in the testimony. "By this the world will know that you are my disciples- your love for one another". Only a broken heart can release the love of God. Unbroken chaff binds a seed from fruitfulness/multiplication. All the potential is within, but no true spirit of grace and life and love erupts from it.

But it may know a lot.

Therefore it seems that a renewed mind is not the mind that knows a lot. It is the mind that is at the disposal of a heart that loves a lot. :o)

[sheila]

SOME VERY EXCELLANT POST HERE!!

    yOU KNOW SOMETHING THAT KEEPS COMING BACK TO ME?  iT IS JUST THIS......jESUS' STATEMENT..I ONLY DO WHAT I SEE THE FATHER DO/


    BECAUSE OF HIS SAYING THIS.......I THINK....HMMMMMM   WHEN HE WAS UP IN HEAVEN HE MUST HAVE BEEN SEEING HIS FATHER

  RAISING THE DEAD,FORGIVING SINS,OPENING DEAF EARS,BLIND EYES,CASTING OUT DEMONS,HEALING THE AFFLICTED...SPEAKING WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE

   TEACHING MAN

  HE MUST HAVE BEHELD HIS FATHER LAYING DOWN HIS LIFE WILLINGLY,IN ORDER TO TAKE IT BACK UP AGAIN[ACTS 10;11]

     ALL DONE SO WE CAN KNOW THE FATHER AND THE SON


          SUCH CARE,BESTOWED UPON US

       IPRAISE YOU FATHER,I PRAISE  YOU JESUS,  I PRAISE YOU HOLY SPIRIT ,BLESS YOU!


           

[micah7:9]

Glory and wow! That is awesome my mind became dismantled!
".jESUS' STATEMENT..I ONLY DO WHAT I SEE THE FATHER DO/


    BECAUSE OF HIS SAYING THIS.......I THINK....HMMMMMM   WHEN HE WAS UP IN HEAVEN HE MUST HAVE BEEN SEEING HIS FATHER

  RAISING THE DEAD,FORGIVING SINS,OPENING DEAF EARS,BLIND EYES,CASTING OUT DEMONS,HEALING THE AFFLICTED...SPEAKING WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE

   TEACHING MAN

  HE MUST HAVE BEHELD HIS FATHER LAYING DOWN HIS LIFE WILLINGLY,IN ORDER TO TAKE IT BACK UP AGAIN[ACTS 10;11]

     ALL DONE SO WE CAN KNOW THE FATHER AND THE SON

[shawn]

Glory and wow! That is awesome my mind became dismantled!
".jESUS' STATEMENT..I ONLY DO WHAT I SEE THE FATHER DO/


    BECAUSE OF HIS SAYING THIS.......I THINK....HMMMMMM   WHEN HE WAS UP IN HEAVEN HE MUST HAVE BEEN SEEING HIS FATHER

  RAISING THE DEAD,FORGIVING SINS,OPENING DEAF EARS,BLIND EYES,CASTING OUT DEMONS,HEALING THE AFFLICTED...SPEAKING WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE

   TEACHING MAN

  HE MUST HAVE BEHELD HIS FATHER LAYING DOWN HIS LIFE WILLINGLY,IN ORDER TO TAKE IT BACK UP AGAIN[ACTS 10;11]

     ALL DONE SO WE CAN KNOW THE FATHER AND THE SON

Yes, I must agree.  It has always been there yet I have never seen it.

[micah7:9]

Found this while studying a different site, but it sure is a long ball, out of the park homer for me.  Again there all the time.

Revelation 15:1

[Concordant]
And I perceived another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven messengers having the last seven calamities—for in them is consummated the fury of God."


[ESV]
Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and amazing, seven angels with seven plagues, which are the last, for with them the wrath of God is finished.


"How many times I've read the book of Revelation and this verse didn't stick out to me until the other day.... The wrath of God cannot last for eternity because has an ending, a finish, a consummation! Scripture says so! Can it be any clearer?"

[sheila]

Hebrews 4;3

   Now we who have beleived enter the rest,just as God has said....

    'SO I DECLARED AN OATH IN MY ANGER,THEY SHALL NEVER ENTER MY REST

   AND YET HIS WORK HAS BEEN FINISHED SINCE THE CREATING OF THE WORLD

  For somewhere He has spoken about the seventh day in these words...

   And on the seventh daay God rested from all his work. And again in the passage above He says...they will never enter my rest


   IT STILL REMAINS THAT SOME WILL ENTER THAT REST...and thosewho  formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in,

  because of their disobediance

   THEREFORE,GOD AGAIN SET A CERTAIN DAY,CALLING IT TODAY.......[today,you will be with me in paradise]

   WHEN A LONG TIME LATER HE SPOKE T6HROUGH dAVID,AS WAS SAID BEFORE....


   today if you hear his voice do not harden your hearts

   in hEAVEN..EVERYDAY IS TODAY!  THOSE WHOSE HEARTS ARE HARDENED IN THIS WORLD..WILL ENTER THAT COMMANDED REST/SABBATH

   ON THAT 'CERTAIN'DAY..FOR ALL WORKS WILL CEASE


   NOW JESUS SAID,MY FATHER CONTINUES TO WORK AND SO DO I

   JOHN6;28    'THEN THEY ASKED HIM,'WHAT MUST WE DO TO  DO THE WORK GOD REQUIRES/'

   jesus answered'   THE WORK OF GOD IS THIS..........TO BELEIVE IN THE ONE HE SENT


     then they asked for a miraculous sign.....still hard put to beive the grace that was being offered them through Jesus....and

  they refferrred to the miraculous manna in the desert...as bread from heaven


   Jesus told them...it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven......


    FOR THE BREAD OF GOD IS HE WHO COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN


     AND GIVES LIFE TO THE WORLD

[shawn]

Found this while studying a different site, but it sure is a long ball, out of the park homer for me.  Again there all the time.

Revelation 15:1

[Concordant]
And I perceived another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven messengers having the last seven calamities—for in them is consummated the fury of God."


[ESV]
Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and amazing, seven angels with seven plagues, which are the last, for with them the wrath of God is finished.


"How many times I've read the book of Revelation and this verse didn't stick out to me until the other day.... The wrath of God cannot last for eternity because has an ending, a finish, a consummation! Scripture says so! Can it be any clearer?"

Gotta agree...strong support for God's wrath having a beginning AND an end.

[sheila]

    John 6;39


    AND THIS IS THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME,THAT I SHALL LOSE NONE OF ALL THAT HE HAS GIVEN ME,

     BUT RAISE THEM UP AT THE LAST DAY

     BUT LORD,BY THIS TIME THERE IS A BAD ODOUR,FOR HE HAS BEEN THERE FOUR DAYS....44444444444DAYSDAYSDAYS


    JOHN 11;42.......DID I NOT TELL YOU THAT IF YOU BELEIVED YOU WOULD SEE THE GLORY OF GOD

  SO THEY TOOK AWAY THE STONE[HARD HEART/LAW COVENANT]LAID ACROSS THE ENTRANCE.......[MT 7;9 WHAT FATHER WHEN HIS SON ASK FOR BREAD GIVE HIM A

   STONE?]/ THEN JESUS LOOKE UP AND SAID,'FATHER I THANK YOU THAT YOU HAVE HEARD ME,BUT I SAID THIS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THOSE STANDING

  HERE, THAT THEY MAY BELEIVE THAT YOU SENT ME

WHEN HE HAD SAID THIS,JESUS SAID IN A LOUD VOICE 'COME OUT....

  JESUS SAID TO THEM....TAKE OFF  THE GRAVE CLOTHES AND LET HIM GO



   JOHN 5;28  DO NOT BE AMAZED AT THIS..FOR A TIME IS COMING   WHEN  ALL WHOARE IN THEIR GRAVES[ALL,ALL]WILL HEAR HIS VOICE AND COME OUT

  THOSE WH HAVE DONE GOOD WILL RISE TO LIVE, AND THOSE WHO HAVE DONE EVIL WILL RISE TO BE CONDEMNED



   ROMANS 3;13   NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS

  WHAT SHALL WE CONCLUDE THEN,ARE WE ANY BETTER? NOT AT ALL WE HAVE ALREADY MADE THE CHARGE THAT JEWS AND GENTILES ALIKE

ARE ALL UNDER SIN,AS IT IS WRITTEN..........ALL HAVE TURNED AWAY....THERE IS NO ONE WHO DOES GOOD....

  THEIR THROATS ARE OPEN GRAVES,THEIR TONGUES PRACTICE DECEIT,THE POISON OF VIPERS IS ON THEIR LIPS.....


    V 19 NOW WE KNOW THAT WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS,IT SAYS IT TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER LAW....


   SO THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE SILENCED...AND THE WHOLE WORLD HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO GOD...

  THEREFORE NO ONE WILL BE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS IN HIS SIGHT BY OBSERVING THE LAW

  BUT NOW,A RIGHTEOUSNESS FROM GOD,APART FROM LAW[APPEAR AGAIN APART FROM SIN]


  THERE IS NOT DIFFERENCE,FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD...

 AND ARE JUSTIFIED FREELY BY HIS GRACE

THROUGH THE REDEMPTION THAT CAME BY CHRIST JESUS




 

[sheila]

 GREAT POST SEVEN BOWLS OF WRATH......SPEAKS OF THE SEVEN WOES JESUS PUT ON THE  PHARISEES AND TEACHERS OF THE LAW

WOE TO YOU...WOE TO YOU