Author Topic: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religion?  (Read 12088 times)

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Offline Molly

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25Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:

 26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

--Acts 11

Thanks for the references, Gab.  We see here that the name was first applied to disciples of Paul.  In a sense, Paul had stepped into the shoes of Christ [as apostle], so that in learning from Paul, they were learning from Christ by proxy. 

But, we have the New Testament scripture, so we can learn directly from Christ.  Thus, when I call myself Christian, I identify myself as a disciple of Christ.

20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

--Rev 3


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I may be confused, maybe not remembering correctly.  But I thought I remembered about a year and a half ago, that you prayed to Jesus with one of the TM members (not sure of details, asking forgiveness, to be saved, placing faith in Him for salvation, etc.), and that you had a miraculous deliverance from some of the chains that held you.

Is that right, and if so, what has happened since?

We prayed .What helped me is that i got further away from ET.
What i disliked in the end is God and the religion .
I remember that we prayed for *the demons to get out * . They thought i had demons in me O.O !
For crying out loud ,they should have just told me that Santa Claus is comming through the chimney to bring the Holly Spirit . Now that would have helped me more than everything else ...
I remember feeling great relief when i thought that i didnt have enything like that in me and i can even say that i felt *anointed * from this thought .
But who did believe me ?
I just needed some moral help ,an arm to hang on to , and some love!
I saw they loved me ,but in the end what i experienced made me not wanna be with God .
The *Holly Spirit * and God's preasence and everything else made me wanna say : that god even if he is with me ,even if he loves me ,its nothing ,as i cant see more people be happy and less tortured .
People are dying ,being tortured and what am i doing ? Licking the B88t of the same God that allowed it ? That made the end of my atraction toward your God .It also opened my eyes to many bad things that were written in this book : the Bible .
The bad feelings ? Now i have a better explenation for them than demons !
Its puberty ,hormones,stress (my broken family and many more ..) ,the conflict with gods like the one you have . That is what the *demons * are realy and nothing else . Once those problems are solved ,then i will not have them .

I once heard an interpretation of the Ten Commandments that stuck with me ever since then - that person saw them not as instructions, but rather as a promise.  That is to say, that we were being told that if we loved God and loved our neighbor (the greatest commandments), then all of those things we will do - not because we're forced to, but because we want to, because we feel compelled to act in that way because we love everyone to such a great degree.

That Gab is a nice thought . I do have some complains ,but its true and nice .

Also, I believe that to see a person's good works, is evidence of salvation, not effort to get salvation.
I never liked the idea about salvation . I mean ..saved from WHAT ? There are so many things that might be wrong in life !So many ! From what ? From everything ?
And even if He does wanna save me if i dont like Him i will still not want His ways .So i dont want to be *saved * the way he may like me to be .

Depends what's in that vessel I think.
I dont think that people ever had acid in them . We all have hearts .The evil people like Stalin and Hitler also did have .
Did you know that Stalin circled 3 times arround Moscow during the nazzi atack of the town with an Icon Of ...I dont remember was it Jesus himself ,ot His mother 's icon . He did it because he thought that God may help him .

I also believe some believe unto salvation now, the rest later, when faced with shame and pain of loss, then captured by His presence.

Pain ,shame,loss ,dont help. I have felt every one of those to the amount that i could not sleep and was shivering every night .It doesnt help!I have also felt this what you call *Holly Ghost *.

Sorry for *mixing * the quotes a bit in the comment .I should have written the names above them ,but i am too lazy to write the names ,yet i can write that small comment bellow.  :grin: :grin:

Offline WhiteWings

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Depends what's in that vessel I think.
I dont think that people ever had acid in them . We all have hearts .The evil people like Stalin and Hitler also did have .
Did you know that Stalin circled 3 times arround Moscow during the nazzi atack of the town with an Icon Of ...I dont remember was it Jesus himself ,ot His mother 's icon . He did it because he thought that God may help him.
And after that he used the scorched earth tatic...
VID I think you are reading my reply a little out of context.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...


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Your first idea i realy didnt like . I just never saw people as objects of use,
Good point.
Jesus/God doesn't see you as a thing

because they have soul ,think ,hear ,love and much more .. We are not vessels .
Depends what's in that vessel I think. If makes a difference if you are a vessel filled with acid or with gold.

Marriage ? That is an interesting thought ,but i may also choose to be single . But i will think on what you said .

This is not about earthly marriage. But marriage stands for mutual love. Not a thing as you started you mesasge with.

Btw : Why cant those people who wrote the Bible say things in normal language ?
They say : marriage . You say marriage = mutual love . Omm  :umnick:

I want to believe that people have something precious in them . I am kind of orientated arround the eastern faiths when it comes to the Spirit .From there i got to the idea that people have a soul and its something GOLDEN .Its precious,they are precious .
By the way the wolf might be a wolf ,but that doesnt make him heartless . I want to believe that even the harshest beasts have hearts .
Stalin is just figuratively said .I dont agree with the bad stuff that he made ,but i dont blame him either .The fact that he did something good shows that he is not just a bag of ..well you know.

If i am still reading your reply out of context correct me .
I know that it matters what you will do . Burn ,or reward with good though.



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Re: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religi
« Reply #104 on: September 18, 2009, 01:18:44 AM »
People are dying ,being tortured and what am i doing ? Licking the B88t of the same God that allowed it ? That made the end of my atraction toward your God .It also opened my eyes to many bad things that were written in this book : the Bible .

I don't mean any offense by this, but I kind of get the sense that you're misunderstanding just what it means to love God.  I actually had the same thoughts at one point in time, so I definitely know where you're at.  But then I read passages such as this:

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'  Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'  The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'" (Matthew 25:34-40)

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us." (1 John 4:7-12)

The more I look into the matter, the more I become convinced that the statement that God is love holds much, much more significance than many give it credit for.  From the broader context in 1 John, I don't think that it's a metaphor, as if to only say that God loves us all so much.  I think that it's actually speaking quite literally: we cannot truly understand God in his entirety, but when we experience love, we are experiencing God, and it is love that must form the basis for our understanding of God.

In this respect, I think that the commandment to love God takes on an entirely different meaning.  If it is God that we experience when we experience love, then it may be said that loving God is, in a sense, loving love.

One thing I always found interesting was that, when Jesus is asked in Matthew 22:34-40 what the greatest commandment (singular) was in the law, he responds with not one, but two commandments - love God and love your neighbor.  I've grown increasingly suspicious the more I read that these two commandments are, in fact, the same thing - we are to love God not by just sitting there and reciting empty praises, but rather by the spreading the love of God to all people.

So, no, we aren't supposed to stand by idle loving God while others suffer.  In fact, if we do stand by idle and put empty words of praise for God above helping others, we are like the goats who did not do anything for God.  What we do for others, we do for God - that is to say, we love God precisely by loving our neighbor and acting in the way we are instructed to act.

"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:14-16)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 06:58:11 AM by Gab »

Offline reFORMer

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Re: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religi
« Reply #105 on: September 18, 2009, 08:50:30 AM »
Unlike the English "truth," which is a positive thing, in Greek, aletheia is a negative word.  It begins with a, which is "un-," then, the name "Lethe," from which we derive such words as "lethargy" and "lethal." 
Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia's article on:


In Classical Greek, Lethe (λήθη; Classical Greek [ˈlεːt̪ʰεː], modern Greek: [ˈliθi]) literally means "forgetfulness" or "concealment". It is related to the Greek word for "truth": a-lethe-ia (αλήθεια), meaning "un-forgetfulness" or "un-concealment". In Greek mythology, Lethe is one of the several rivers of Hades: those who drank from it experienced complete forgetfulness. Lethe was also a naiad, although the naiad Lethe is probably a separate personification of forgetfulness rather than a reference to the river which bears her name. She was the daughter of Eris ('Strife' in Hesiod's Theogony), and sister to Algos, Limos, Horcus, and Ponos.

Role in religion and philosophy

Some ancient Greeks believed that souls were made to drink from the river before being reincarnated, so they would not remember their past lives. The Myth of Er at the end of Plato's Republic tells of the dead arriving at the "plain of Lethe", through which the river Ameles ("careless") runs. A few mystery religions taught the existence of another river, the Mnemosyne; those who drank from the Mnemosyne would remember everything and attain omniscience. Initiates were taught that they would receive a choice of rivers to drink from after death, and to drink from Mnemosyne instead of Lethe...
God abides with the lowly.  To know that out of all of whatever is, there is what is "unhidden" of it to us, is to recognize the limitations of our knowledge of what God has been pleased to reveal.  We are responsible for what has been made known to us.  That is how we may walk in the light.  We don't assume what we know is incontrovertible "truth" because we acknowledge the partial nature of what is not any longer concealed.  We are hungry to know more as we are led by the Spirit.  It is like the iceberg: only 10% revealed while the other 90% which is not seen makes up the bulk of the iceberg.  It is the part above the water, what is unconcealed, that is our "truth."  We each have our assigned paths, so our "need to know" is is unique.  We are not to judge, but to love one another.

God delights in "truth in the inward part."  He doesn't want us exercising some religious assertion not connected to what we recognize as what is uncovered of reality within us.  To often people engage in religious activities and support religious teachings, or go along with what others call religious authorities, when we lack true conviction in our hearts and our minds are unconvinced that it is the truth.  (This realm of darkness has strongholds.)

What God wants of us is share without condemnation what is the condition of our hearts and minds so we may have fellowship with one another  in the truth.  Often, among us, there is revelation that can be shared which will advance us in the knowledge of God.  There is corporate "truth" for the body of Christ, the local, and visible many membered expression of God in the earth.

Jesus, calling himself "The Truth," meaning, "the unconcealed," indicates that as we are partaking of the Divine nature, the omniscience of it means we are "un-forgetting" some of the all of the mind of Christ that we have.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 07:31:06 PM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Molly

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John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

This is a promise of God, that he will wake us from lethargy or sleep [death] into the light of  all truth where nothing shall be hid from us.  Reformer, thanks for pointing out that the word for truth means an unveiling of something concealed, a waking up from sleep.

The god of this evil age works night and day to blind us to the truth, to keep us asleep and the walking dead.  It takes, therefore, a love of the truth to overcome this.  In the Hebrew, the word for truth gives the meaning of stability due to a strong foundation, which as we know, is Christ.

Psalm 25:5
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.

"on thee do I wait"

A primitive root; to bind together (perhaps by twisting), that is, collect; (figuratively) to expect: - gather (together), look, patiently, tarry, wait (for, on, upon).