Author Topic: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religion?  (Read 8387 times)

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Sadie

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Hi Seth,

The Jehovah Witness and other false Christian sects do not believe in the Godhead either. The doctrine of the trinity or Godhead..I believe is an essential foundation of Christian faith. I can understand if you don't understand the Godhead, but to flat out deny its exsistence..is denying God himself.  To deny the Godhead is to deny Jesus Christ.  You can't have Jesus without the Godhead. All three have their role in salvation. i hope others who read this understands that. To not understand the Godhead or trinity is totally different than to deny its existence. i hope this forum understands this. Seth, my freind, I will pray for salvation.

Paul Hazelwood

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Hi Seth,

The Jehovah Witness and other false Christian sects do not believe in the Godhead either. The doctrine of the trinity or Godhead..I believe is an essential foundation of Christian faith. I can understand if you don't understand the Godhead, but to flat out deny its exsistence..is denying God himself.  To deny the Godhead is to deny Jesus Christ.  You can't have Jesus without the Godhead. All three have their role in salvation. i hope others who read this understands that. To not understand the Godhead or trinity is totally different than to deny its existence. i hope this forum understands this. Seth, my freind, I will pray for salvation.


Belief or understanding of the trinity is a religious persuasion and is not in any form a requirement of salvation.

Offline Taffy

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Hi Seth,

The Jehovah Witness and other false Christian sects do not believe in the Godhead either. The doctrine of the trinity or Godhead..I believe is an essential foundation of Christian faith. I can understand if you don't understand the Godhead, but to flat out deny its exsistence..is denying God himself.  To deny the Godhead is to deny Jesus Christ.  You can't have Jesus without the Godhead. All three have their role in salvation. i hope others who read this understands that. To not understand the Godhead or trinity is totally different than to deny its existence. i hope this forum understands this. Seth, my freind, I will pray for salvation.
WARNING

Sadie PLZ Stop it with these judgments

if one was to DENY Christ ,its BY works...HIS ...Eph 2 8-10

Tts 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.  
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 01:10:09 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Seth

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Re: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religi
« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2009, 01:09:32 AM »
Hi Seth,

The Jehovah Witness and other false Christian sects do not believe in the Godhead either. The doctrine of the trinity or Godhead..I believe is an essential foundation of Christian faith. I can understand if you don't understand the Godhead, but to flat out deny its exsistence..is denying God himself.  To deny the Godhead is to deny Jesus Christ.  You can't have Jesus without the Godhead. All three have their role in salvation. i hope others who read this understands that. To not understand the Godhead or trinity is totally different than to deny its existence. i hope this forum understands this. Seth, my freind, I will pray for salvation.

Concerning the bolded blue: you are free to believe whatever you like. Like I said, I am not subject to your interpretations. Nowhere in the Bible is ANYONE commanded to believe in a trinity in order to be a Christian. So you are out of line to suggest people of this forum are not Christians for not believing in your definition of Christian which is not in the Bible.

Considering your suggestion that I am "denying God himself" and therefore "denying Jesus Christ" and therefore "praying for my salvation" I direct your attention to this moderating comment:

--------

"We do not believe we are better than other Christians so likewise, afford us the same respect by not implying we are deceived, disillusioned, led by satan et al.

People doing that will find their stay here at Tentmaker very short lived."

--------

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=2695.0

Offline willieH

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willieH: Hi Sadie... :hithere:

I love talking about God.

Would you answer ONE QUESTION?

Just curious, you wouldn't happen to be ---> CoG37 or Lee100 ...would you?  A simple "yes or no" answer would suffice, ...thanks!   :ty:

If no...  Hey -- glad to have you aboard!!!  :newb:  :welcome:  :friendstu:

If yes... why continue the charade?  :dontknow:


...willieH  :cloud9:

Sadie

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Seth,

God almighty is one God made up of three persons. Therefore, if God is made up of three persons, if you deny one you deny God. What part of the Godhead do you not believe? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is not God? Do you believe Jesus is not God? Do you believe the Father is not God? Please explain. My spirit is grieved and quenched by having this discussion. :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh:

Offline Seth

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Re: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religi
« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2009, 01:37:17 AM »
Seth,

God almighty is one God made up of three persons. Therefore, if God is made up of three persons, if you deny one you deny God. What part of the Godhead do you not believe? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is not God? Do you believe Jesus is not God? Do you believe the Father is not God? Please explain. My spirit is grieved and quenched by having this discussion. :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh:

I believe in The Father
I believe in The Holy Spirit
I believe in The son

I just don't believe in them as you do. Again, there is NO ADMONITION in the Bible that one must believe in YOUR interpretation of "three persons" ....yet ANOTHER unscriptural term. Why do you define a scriptural term like Christian with unscriptural terms then accuse other people of denying God for not subscribing to your own terms and interpretations?

Reference: http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 01:41:59 AM by Seth »

Offline sparrow

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hi Sparrow,

I't saddens me to hear say " I don't know if I'm a Christian". :sigh: Do you know how you can know Sparrow? When you disobey God's word.. do you feel remorseful and convicted by the Holy Spirit? When you sin against God do you confess it? Do you have desire to meditate on God's word... or do you have difficulty finding your bible and when you find it..does it have an inch of dust on it?.. Do you make time to spend with God in worship and prayer? Are you still living a sinful lifestyle with no conviction? You see Sparrow when you are truly regenerated..God replaces your heart of stone and gives you a heart of flesh to give you these disires to please Him..and not only that the Holy Spirit makes your spirit alive and dwells there... the Holy Spirit testifies to your spirit that you are a child of God by which you cry out Abba Father.  :icon_flower:


The label of "christian" means absolutely nothing to me.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Paul Hazelwood

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Seth,

God almighty is one God made up of three persons.



This is a religious interpretation and assertion and not a factor of salvation whether it is true or not.

When it comes to religious assertions sadie I can prove you are damned if indeed this is the road you wish to be on.


Offline sheila

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  John 13;34   as I have loved you,so you must love one another.

  By this,all men will know that you are my disciples,if you love

  one another.

   This is how we can know we are Christians...we can do many

   things,but if done without love it is to no benefit.
   

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Hi shadow,

As long as your foundation is the True Jesus of the bible and you build upon that solid rock of Jesus.. other essential christian doctrine..such as the Diety of Jesus and the trinity. if you are truly born again, believing in false doctrine will not prevent you on going to heaven as long as you have the proper foundation under you. Make sense?  :icon_flower:

I'm jumping in to say that this doesn't make sense to me because when you say the True Jesus of the Bible, I immediately think about the fact that there was a time when a man named Jesus walked the earth and there was no New Testament, yet he was still the 'True Jesus' and before the foundation of the world Jesus was the True Jesus (according to the scriptures).  And also, when you say 'believe', i get the distinct feeling that you are talking about a certain mental ascent that somehow mysteriously keeps you from being on the highway to hell. 

To be perfectly honest with you, Sadie, I think if any of us had the desire, we probably have enough of the scripture inside us to convince you that you're lost and that you're not a true Christian if that were our desire to do such a thing, but that is not the message we have heard from our Father in heaven - it is not the good news and that is why we do not set about trying to convince and convict the world of sin, because it has already been done.  The messengers of God are sent to tell those in hades the good news.  I'll be happy when that reality shines forth in your heart and you can "see" it by the Spirit.

anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline peacemaker

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There is one body and ONE SPIRIT—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— one Lord, one faith, one baptism; ONE SPIRIT (GOD) and Father of ALL, who is over ALL and through ALL and in ALL. (Ephesians 4:4~6)

Now about spiritual gifts, brother(s), I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or another you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore, I tell you that no one who is speaking WITH the SPIRIT of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except WITH the HOLY SPIRIT [of GOD].

There are different kinds of gifts, but the same SPIRIT. There are different kinds of service, but the same LORD. There are different kinds of working, but the same GOD WHO works ALL of them in ALL MEN.
 
Now, to each one the manifestation of the SPIRIT is given for the common good. To one there is given through the SPIRIT the message of WISDOM, to another the message of KNOWLEDGE by means of the same SPIRIT, to another FAITH with the same SPIRIT, to another gifts of HEALING WITH THAT ONE SPIRIT, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between Spirits, to another speaking in other kinds of languages, and to still another the interpretation of that language.

All these are the work of ONE and the same SPIRIT, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines (NOT YOU).

The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized with ONE SPIRIT into ONE BODY—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were ALL given the ONE SPIRIT TO DRINK.
 
Now, the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If, the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If, the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If, they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"

On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable, we treat with special honor. And the parts that are un-presentable, are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God [SPIRIT OF] has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If, one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

Now, you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of languages.

Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in other languages? Do all interpret?

But eagerly desire the greater gifts.

And now I will show you the most excellent way.

If, I speak in the different languages of men and am a messenger, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If, I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if, I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If, I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
 
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
 
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are different languages, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now, we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now, I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
 
And NOW these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is Love.

"The Father and I are ONE SPIRIT."

PEACEMAKER

Offline sparrow

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Peacemaker.. Thank you for posting that.  :HeartThrob:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline peacemaker

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Peacemaker.. Thank you for posting that.  :HeartThrob:

You're most welcome, Sparrow.  :boyheart:


Offline WhiteWings

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Hi Whitewing,

absolutely people can be truly be born again and believe in false doctrine. like i said before as long as you have the proper foundation under you ( Biblical Jesus, Jesus' Deity, the Trinity, grace through faith salvation meaning Jesus plus nothing, grace alone) you will go to heaven. Jesus even said the elect might be fooled by the AntiChrist with his counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders.  :icon_flower:

Trinity is just a doctrine. I'm not saying it's right or wrong (not allowed by the forum rules) but lets say there is a lot of disagreement in 'church' over Father, Son, HS being a trinity or not.
So basicly you are saying: "All false doctrines are fine as long as you believe in the parts of my doctrine I just wrote down."
To me that sounds a lot like the system of the romans. You were allowed to openly worship anything you liked as long as you also woreshipped to a god the emperor liked.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 09:39:06 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

whyiloveitaly.com

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How much do we really know about Jesus? If we put together all the things he said and did that we read in the NT, it probably doesn't add up to more than 1 day of talking and doing! Yet he apparently lived 33 YEARS! Just what else was he doing those 32 years and 364 days???
Some will say, "preaching the Gospel." Certainly so. But that doesn't answer the question.


The truth is that we cannot know. As a result, we must look at his APPROACH and ATTITUDE. His WAY of dealing with other people. He says that He is meek and lowly--- something most "Christians" are not. (In America, if you're meek and lowly you'll get beat up and called some names I won't put here..)

Offline willieH

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willieH: Hi Sadie... :hithere:

Still waiting for you to answer!  :dontknow:

Would you answer ONE QUESTION?

Just curious, you wouldn't happen to be ---> CoG37 or Lee100 ...would you?  A simple "yes or no" answer would suffice, ...thanks!   :ty:

If no...  Hey -- glad to have you aboard!!!  :newb:  :welcome:  :friendstu:

If yes... why continue the charade?  :dontknow:


...willieH  :cloud9:

Offline Cardinal

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 :cloud9: Sadie will not be replying. "Sadie" has been permanently banned. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

martincisneros

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In America, if you're meek and lowly you'll get beat up and called some names I won't put here.
That's not true.  Not if it's Biblical meekness and lowliness rather than an attempt at meekness and lowliness out of the carnal mind, low self esteem, Buddhist ideas, other pagan ideas, et. al.  Biblical meekness and lowliness isn't weakness.  Biblical meekness and lowliness isn't blasphemously setting aside the worthiness that Christ Jesus has given you in His Covenant Blood and Sworn Oaths that make up the New Covenant.  God called Moses the meekest man on the whole planet in his generation, and yet he was absolutely no one's push over by any remote stretch of your imagination.  It's defined for you in the Psalms and Isaiah that it's trembling at the Scriptures, and the prophets and Apostles of the Bible take it a step further as a matter of your being a reincarnation of the Son of God when you've put Colossians 3:16-17 and 1John 2:5-6 skillfully into practice until every thought is taken captive to Christ Jesus as it says in 2Corinthians 10.  If you're more the Son of God this year than you were last year, in manifestation, then that's how you know you're a Christian, according to the Gospel of John and 1John 3:24 that says that His Spirit takes you over the more you continue in His already established Word.  So the growing wisdom and the growing signs and wonders is how you know, plain and simple -- Biblically.  What I just said might drive a few folks back to Isaiah 58 for a few days, but that's fine.  It's good for you to, and He'll demonstrate His fullness to you as your lover the more you do!

Offline Tony N

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I don't care to be a "Christian." I am a believer. A believer is one who believes 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 etc. He believes God that Christ died for his sins.

God doesn't want us to grovel all the time in a guilt complex. He'd much rather we say: "Yea, God, I screwed up. But rather than go the rest of my life feeling sorry for my sins, I am going to rejoice that Christ died for ALL of them. Thank you Lord!"

gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)

Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline WhiteWings

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:cloud9: Sadie will not be replying. "Sadie" has been permanently banned. Blessings....
I think that doesn't lessen the chance Willie will get an answer to his question. :laughing7:

Willie cheer up! As long new accounts can be regged there is hope your question will be answered. (An age after hell freezes over)
:soap:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

whyiloveitaly.com

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Meekness is a fruit of the Spirit of God.
I read it from Webster's Dictionary as:
1- enduring injury with patience and without resentment
2- deficient in spirit and courage (!)
and 3- not violent or strong.

It is this meekness that has helped me understand that God will save all.

(From my humble experience, I think many buddhists are more "christian" than many "christians" in their demonstration of true meekness.)

Are you saying we are supposed to physically shake as we open the Bible? I don't see anything "spiritual" about that, at least not as far as our interaction with other human beings goes...

Brian

Offline claypot

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Hi shadow,

As long as your foundation is the True Jesus of the bible and you build upon that solid rock of Jesus.. other essential christian doctrine..such as the Diety of Jesus and the trinity. if you are truly born again, believing in false doctrine will not prevent you on going to heaven as long as you have the proper foundation under you. Make sense?  :icon_flower:

I'm jumping in to say that this doesn't make sense to me because when you say the True Jesus of the Bible, I immediately think about the fact that there was a time when a man named Jesus walked the earth and there was no New Testament, yet he was still the 'True Jesus' and before the foundation of the world Jesus was the True Jesus (according to the scriptures).  And also, when you say 'believe', i get the distinct feeling that you are talking about a certain mental ascent that somehow mysteriously keeps you from being on the highway to hell. 

To be perfectly honest with you, Sadie, I think if any of us had the desire, we probably have enough of the scripture inside us to convince you that you're lost and that you're not a true Christian if that were our desire to do such a thing, but that is not the message we have heard from our Father in heaven - it is not the good news and that is why we do not set about trying to convince and convict the world of sin, because it has already been done.  The messengers of God are sent to tell those in hades the good news.  I'll be happy when that reality shines forth in your heart and you can "see" it by the Spirit.

anne

Tremendous thoughts Anne. I'm going to re-read them now. Thanks.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline gregoryfl

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Re: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religi
« Reply #73 on: September 16, 2009, 05:44:36 PM »
Having been in several churches that each had their own flavor of how to "obey the word of God," I have come to see for myself that I had it all wrong. I had so misunderstood obedience and what I now believe God says about it for us as believers. I will start with the forerunner of the obedience that we live in today, our Lord Jesus:

Heb 5:8 though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered.

Christ did not learn "to obey." He learned "obedience." He learned that he always obeyed, and that despite how it appeared at times to others, it was expressed THROUGH him but BY another source, his Father. He learned this not by doing or trying, but solely by the work of suffering given to him by his Father's life in him, for his father saw him for who he truly was. His father was the obedience expressing himself in Jesus' life so others who had eyes to see saw the Father when they saw Jesus.

Heb 5:9 Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation,

We are indeed those who obey him, even when our "behavior" tries to tell us otherwise!!

It is the same as a lump of gold learning pureness, poetically speaking. It does not learn by doing anything, but solely by the work of suffering given to it by the hand of the one who sees it for what it is, the gold miner.

1Pe 1:6,7 Wherein you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been put to grief in various trials, that the proof of your faith, [OBEDIENCE, THE LIFE OF GOD] which is more precious than gold that perishes even though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ—

That is why this obedience is called the "obedience of faith." (Rom 1:5; 14:25) It issues out of faith, and belongs to faith, not sight. If we are looking for it with physical eyes in some "behavior" we will miss it, because, being of faith, belonging to that which is faith, it is something we can only see with eyes of faith, because just as the gold miner has to have faith that what he holds in his hand is pure gold, despite seeing so much dross, likewise by faith we understand that true obedience, the life of God within us, is just as real, despite seeing the flesh we live in, and the contradictions it portrays.

We have been placed into obedience himself, but, just as Christ had to learn it from what he suffered, so do we. Jesus was made "complete through sufferings." (Heb 12:10) This is the process during Jesus life that taught him of the obedience he had and lived in, not of what he did outwardly but of who he was inwardly.

2Co 10:6 and being in readiness to avenge all disobedience, when your obedience will be made full.

These wonderful Corinthians, you mean they had obedience? Yes they did, despite appearances. When Paul speaks of their obedience being made full, think of being completed, for that is what he means. It is the same as the contrasting fullness spoken of as sins being made full. Just as the sins of nations in the past happened until the time God said "enough," when it was full and time for judgment, so to the obedience of the Corinthians, and every other believer, the life of God within us, will also be made full, another way of saying "be made complete," and seen in the day of the judgment as complete. How will it be made complete? Not by anything of the flesh, not by what most have come to think of "obedience" as. No, but it will be by the suffering, the fiery trial, expressed in a battle wherein "imaginations and and every high thing against the knowledge of God" is brought to "the obedience of Christ." It is God who "begins the good work" and "completes it." We participate as we live, and to the extent that we believe we see it with eyes of faith.

In that battle that goes on within each of us, a daily battle against all the thoughts that try to convince us of who we are not, every one of those thoughts are being made to obey Christ. Notice that nowhere in that text are we being told to "do" anything. It is happening for us. It is spoken of as something we ARE doing. Go ahead and read it, in 2Co 10:3-5, if you like. The pureness of the gold [that proof of faith, OBEDIENCE] is being revealed more and more And this trial, just as it did with Christ, will be complete. Paul leaves no room for doubt, for he say when your obedience will be made full.

Rom 6:16 Don't you know that to whom you present yourselves as servants to obedience, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?

Can you see God here? He is right there in the word obedience. Let's try it this way:

Rom 6:16 Don't you know that to whom you present yourselves as servants to God, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of God to righteousness?

Paul makes this interchange seen in what he has said just before this:

Rom 6:13 Neither present your members to sin as instruments of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

As an aside, here is a list of all the scriptures which speak of obedience as it relates to God, under the new covenant. Notice the underlined portions in particular and see what common theme is expressed.

Rom 1:5  Through him we received grace and a commission as an apostle to bring about the obedience of faith among all the gentiles for the sake of his name.

Rom 6:16  Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey-either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Rom 6:17  But thank God that, though you were once slaves of sin, you became obedient from your hearts to that form of teaching with which you were entrusted!

Rom 15:18  For I am bold enough to tell you only about what Christ has accomplished through me in the bringing of gentiles to obedience. By my words and actions,

Rom 16:19  For your obedience has become known to everyone, and I am full of joy for you. But I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

Rom 16:26  but now has been made known through the prophets to all the gentiles, in keeping with the decree of the eternal God to bring them to the obedience of faith-

2Co 7:15  His heart goes out to you even more as he remembers how obedient all of you were and how you welcomed him with fear and trembling.

2Co 10:5  and every proud obstacle that is raised against the knowledge of God, taking every thought captive in order to obey Christ.
2Co 10:6  We are ready to punish every act of disobedience when your obedience is complete.

Phm 1:21  Confident of your obedience, I am writing to you because I know that you will do even more than I ask.

1Pe 1:2  the people chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father through the sanctifying work of the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and to be sprinkled with his blood. May grace and peace be yours in abundance!

1Pe 1:14  As obedient children, do not be shaped by the desires that you once had in your ignorance.

1Pe 1:22  Now that you have obeyed the truth and have purified your souls to love your brothers sincerely, you must love one another intensely and with a pure heart.

Act 6:7  So the word of God continued to spread, and the number of disciples in Jerusalem continued to grow rapidly. Even a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.

Php 2:12  And so, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you but even more now that I am absent, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

Heb 5:9  and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him,

2Co 2:9 For to this end I also wrote, that I might know the proof of you, whether you are obedient in all things.


Can you see that they are statements of fact, statements of fulfillment, and not statements of possibility or of needing to be fulfilled? The last verse, 2Co 2:9, is the closest I could see that APPEAR to speak of doubt, but based on the verse in chapter 10:6...

2Co 10:6  We are ready to punish every act of disobedience when your obedience is complete.

this too speaks of certainty to me, from our standpoint seeing it transpire, but completed from God's standpoint in Christ.


Obedience is not what we do for God, but what God does through us. For Obedience ultimately is a God himself, expressed in his life, as he lives and walks in us.Our obedience to him is the symbiotic participation in that faith. Rejoice in the battle we are going through, in the trials that rage against us every day, for all of it is to reveal us as those who have "become obedient from the heart." (Rom 6:17) That obedience from the heart is nothing short of the miracle of the Life of God in Christ, our very life now!

Ron
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 05:47:47 PM by gregoryfl »

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:cloud9: Sadie will not be replying. "Sadie" has been permanently banned. Blessings....
I think that doesn't lessen the chance Willie will get an answer to his question. :laughing7:

Willie cheer up! As long new accounts can be regged there is hope your question will be answered. (An age after hell freezes over)
:soap:

 :cloud9: WW, you have the funniest sense of humor....... :laughing7:

And good posts all.......good points all........Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor