Author Topic: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religion?  (Read 8388 times)

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Sadie

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gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)

Offline Taffy

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gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)

:icon_flower:

Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.   :icon_flower:

babes unto Sons, each being  where we are  at UNTIL. :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline peacemaker

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The ones that does the Fathers will.

What exactly is His Will?

peacemaker

Offline Beloved Servant

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PAUL TO TIMOTHY (1)
4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.

Sadie

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Hi Taffy,

I love John 12:32, but it does not teach what you say and think it teaches. This wonderful scripture teaches about the story in Numbers 21:5-9 where the Israelite people who looked at the serpent lifted up by Moses were healed. The point of this illustration is the"lifted up". Just as Moses lifted the snake on the pole so that all who looked upon it might live physically, those who look to Christ, who was lifted up on the cross, will live spiritually and eternally.

Offline jabcat

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gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)


Sadie, I do believe there is an individual time when one is given the faith to believe, i.e., be saved.  Some now who are the first-fruits, then those at His coming, and then the rest, when all is subjected to the Father and God becomes all in all.

However, do you, or do you know anyone that lives every minute in 100% total obedience to the Word of God?  For instance, the Apostle Paul apparently didn't, and I'll contend there are no greater saints than he, then or now.  Do you believe "doing the Father's will" is by our strength and self-conjured faith, or as a result of the Spirit's indwelling and empowerment, i.e., God's Spirit working through those that have been given the faith to believe?  

Mod note:  Sadie, you already told me what I was "incorrectly doing with scripture", now you've told Taf he doesn't know what a certain scripture means and that you do know.  Please post in the spirit of "in my opinion" or "as I understand it", which is actually still a good word to us all.  Self-proclaimed experts wear thin quickly.  James.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 06:47:04 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Paul Hazelwood

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gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)



So how do you live in total obedience to the word of God and disobey it?


Sadie

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Hi peacemaker,

Jesus was always doing the Fathers will on the earth... look at his life..we are to follow it.

I believe God's will is to love Him with all of our heart and love your neighbor as yourself. If you are doing these chances are you will be reconciling sinners back to the Father through Jesus.

Offline jabcat

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Good question Paul.  I missed that.   :laughing7:

P.S. Sadie;  What do you personally believe happens to #1 and #2 category in your illustration?  Do they go burn in hell forever, or something else?  Straight-forward question.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Paul Hazelwood

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Good question Paul.  I missed that.   :laughing7:

P.S. Sadie;  What do you personally believe happens to #1 and #2 category in your illustration?  Do they go burn in hell forever, or something else?

Yeah, Good question yourself,  is this round 3 or 4?


Sadie

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Hi jabcat,

Sorry to sound like a know it all (I know I'm not), but I do not interpret scripture " in my opinion" "as I understand it", I guess is ok.  My future adresses, I wil try to remember to do that. Thanks.

Offline Seth

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Re: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religi
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2009, 07:01:42 AM »
Hi Taffy,

I love John 12:32, but it does not teach what you say and think it teaches. This wonderful scripture teaches about the story in Numbers 21:5-9 where the Israelite people who looked at the serpent lifted up by Moses were healed. The point of this illustration is the"lifted up". Just as Moses lifted the snake on the pole so that all who looked upon it might live physically, those who look to Christ, who was lifted up on the cross, will live spiritually and eternally.

Hi Sadie, it teaches that if he be lifted up, he will draw all men to him. This is concerning the death that he would die. The death that he would die is the judgment of the world. It is assurance that all will be saved from sin. Jesus will drag all men to him....just like Jhn 12:32 says.

Sadie

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Hey Seth,

I respect your view but believe it is your own interperation and not what God originally meant that scripture to mean. :icon_flower:

Sadie

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Paul and jabcat,

I believe if The new heaven and new earth are eternal, so is lake of fire.

Offline peacemaker

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I believe if The new heaven and new earth are eternal, so is lake of fire.

And what is the Lake of Fire?

peacemaker

Paul Hazelwood

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Paul and jabcat,

I believe if The new heaven and new earth are eternal, so is lake of fire.

What scripture do you have that draws the conclusion that the new heaven and new earth are eternal?   

Not looking for an exact phrase, just the manner in which you see scripture saying this.


Offline jabcat

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Thank you for your response to my request, and thank you for your reply to my question.  Regarding - "I do not interpret scripture " in my opinion" "as I understand it" -  I personally believe we all only understand in part, look through a glass darkly, and therefor all operate under different levels of veiledness - until He reveals to us.  

There is much studying (and mostly, much to be revealed) about things like aion (mistranslated as 'eternal'), what (Who) the Lake of Fire is, the ages to come, the purpose of the ages to come, etc.  Please don't get so locked into what you believe that you may miss what He may want you to see.

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the honor of kings to search out a matter. (Pr. 25:2)

James.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 07:47:09 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline peacemaker

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Jesus was always doing the Fathers will on the earth... look at his life..we are to follow it.

I believe God's will is to love Him with all of our heart and love your neighbor as yourself. If you are doing these chances are you will be reconciling sinners back to the Father through Jesus.

And what about laying one's own life down for that of another?

peacemaker

Sadie

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Paul,

I don't know what you believe, but if you don't know that the new heaven and earth are eternal Glory with the Godhead I suggest you study a liitle more.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religi
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2009, 08:10:19 AM »
Paul and jabcat,

I believe if The new heaven and new earth are eternal, so is lake of fire.
I have not found, even in our inaccurate English translations, anywhere stated in the Bible that the lake of fire is eternal.  (You'd do yourself a well to read some of the literature on "eternal," the Greek "eon," and Hebrew "olam" at www.tentmaker.org)

The Bible says the lake of fire is "the second death" and that Jesus will abolish all death (1 Cointhians 15:26, see vs.22 through 28.) It is also written, not only that there shall be no more death, but that, "Neither shall there be any more pain." (Revelation 21:4, AV)  Whatever pain was for will have been done.  God also tells us that it already has been done. (Rv 21:6)  There is a realm now in which pain, death, and mourning already are not.  It is "in Christ!"
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline reFORMer

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Re: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religi
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2009, 08:28:36 AM »
gang,
There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.
I know you missed an important kind of Christian because I was that kind.  This other category which you omitted was described by the apostle Paul.  This was not taught where I was starting out so I suffered horribly within because I seemed so other than a real or true "born from above" being. 

Romans 7:15-25 (Concordant Literal Translation)....
15 For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing.
16 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, I am conceding that the law is ideal.
17 Yet now it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin making its home in me.
18 For I am aware that good is not making its home in me (that is, in my flesh), for to will is lying beside me, yet to be effecting the ideal is not.
19 For it is not the good that I will that I am doing, but the evil that I am not willing, this I am putting into practice.
20 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, it is no longer I who am effecting it, but Sin which is making its home in me.
21 Consequently, I am finding the law that, at my willing to be doing the ideal, the evil is lying beside me.
22 For I am gratified with the law of God as to the man within,
23 yet I am observing a different law in my members, warring with the law of my mind, and leading me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace!
25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.

I wondered for a long time, even with Bible verses, if God was anointing me so I had power to do differently, or if because of His presence I was different.  Thinking His Spirit was helping me, I tried very hard in many ways and it didn't work.  I found it is not about our change.  It is about His presence.

I have a gay friend who has at least temporarily fallen away from following Jesus because of this very thing.  He says if anyone tried to change it was him.  "It just didn't work."  That is a faulty understanding of salvation.  Let me repeat:  It is not about our change.  It is about entering into His presence.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 09:10:30 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Sadie

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Hi reformer,
 
i think you meant to say Romans and not Corinthians. :thumbsup: Anyways, I dont follow you. These scriptures teach living life in the flesh.

Shadow

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gang,

Do you live in total obedience to the word of God, and when you disobey it, is there a sense of remorse and conviction that drives you to confess it with God, and if that isn't there, it is fair to say that your not a Christian at all.

There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

Which one are you? Are you truly Saved or Self-deceived. The body of Christ are jammed packed with false converts. ( Matthew 7:21-23 ; Matthew 25)




What exactly is your agenda, are you coming on here implying that most of the people on here are not christians, in my case its true I dont identify as christian, as I don't want to wear a label that for the most part is worn by a bunch of 2 faced lying hypocrites, like those that are quite content with the thought that the vast majority of mankind by default, just for being born is headed for a literal eternal hell (in their own eyes), and are totally unbothered by the concept

How totally arrogant of you to assume that the vast majority of people on here are false converts and that you are the only true convert on here (which is what you are getting at, isn't it)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 10:21:48 AM by Shadow »

Offline reFORMer

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Re: How do you know your a Christian and not a follower of self-righteous religi
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2009, 09:30:36 AM »
Hi reformer,
 
i think you meant to say Romans and not Corinthians. :thumbsup: Anyways, I dont follow you. These scriptures teach living life in the flesh.
Yeah, I changed it to read "Romans."  Thanx.

It's not just a flippant response:  If you aren't living "in the flesh" (incarnate,) you are dead.  A corpse is all that'd be left here.  I have friends that weren't great sinners and have had to tolerate the fact that they haven't had to deal so radically with the root of their carnal self nature.  I don't know if they just don't know themselves maybe.  They also haven't gotten into helping others with such problems.  The testimony of Paul I quoted is part of many people's struggle with the sin nature.  He does describe a category you missed:  "I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law."  If you read on into chpt 8 you find torment for those disposed to the flesh and life and peace for those disposed to the spirit.  That is what happens as we are trained by the Holy Spirit.  We are worked on by God so we develop into His likeness, into being similar in character, and that while we are in the flesh.  This means, "Always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest."  That can only happen because we have an unchanged flesh nature we must learn to carry about while dying to it.  That means something is still in the room we left to come into the new room we're finding our identity is in.  "If we suffer with Him, we will reign with Him."  In order that we reign over the Adamic world God has us suffer to be conformed to His image of His Son.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline WhiteWings

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There are 3 different kinds people calling themselves Christians.
1) Verbal professors: say and don't do
2) Intellectual Knowledge: Hearers and don't do
3) True Born Again Knowledge: The ones who do. The ones that does the Fathers will.

4] The twisters of the word. The socalled scriptual bombers.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...