Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Discussions on Universal Salvation

heaven at death for believers?

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Molly:






A man named Lazarus, who lived in Bethany, became sick. Bethany was the town where Mary and her sister Martha lived. (2 This Mary was the one who poured the perfume on the Lord's feet and wiped them with her hair; it was her brother Lazarus who was sick.) 3 The sisters sent Jesus a message: "Lord, your dear friend is sick."

4 When Jesus heard it, he said, "The final result of this sickness will not be the death of Lazarus; this has happened in order to bring glory to God, and it will be the means by which the Son of God will receive glory."

5 Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. 6 Yet when he received the news that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was for two more days. 7 Then he said to the disciples, "Let us go back to Judea."

8 "Teacher," the disciples answered, "just a short time ago the people there wanted to stone you; and are you planning to go back?"

9 Jesus said, "A day has twelve hours, doesn't it? So those who walk in broad daylight do not stumble, for they see the light of this world. 10 But if they walk during the night they stumble, because they have no light." 11 Jesus said this and then added, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I will go and wake him up."

12 The disciples answered, "If he is asleep, Lord, he will get well."

13 Jesus meant that Lazarus had died, but they thought he meant natural sleep. 14 So Jesus told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead, 15 but for your sake I am glad that I was not with him, so that you will believe. Let us go to him."

16 Thomas (called the Twin) said to his fellow disciples, "Let us all go along with the Teacher, so that we may die with him!"

17 When Jesus arrived, he found that Lazarus had been buried four days before. 18 Bethany was less than two miles from Jerusalem, 19 and many Judeans had come to see Martha and Mary to comfort them about their brother's death.

20 When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed in the house. 21 Martha said to Jesus, "If you had been here, Lord, my brother would not have died! 22 But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask him for."

23 "Your brother will rise to life," Jesus told her.

24 "I know," she replied, "that he will rise to life on the last day."

25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me will live, even though they die; 26 and those who live and believe in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

--John 11

ded2daworld:
Ah... so since Lazarus didn't actually die  "The final result of this sickness will not be the death of Lazarus" then wondering about where he was or went or did was irrelevant since Lazarus was not dead even though in verse 13+14 it says,
"Jesus meant that Lazarus had died, but they thought he meant natural sleep. 14 So Jesus told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead"
So, then the God of Moses, Isaac and Jacob, is the God of the living. So our dead flesh is awaiting the resurection while our continuing to live spirit is with God... sounds good to me.

Molly:
He mentions two conditions:

1) those who die, believe in me, and live

2) those who live and believe in me and never die



If there's a third choice, he's not mentioning it here.

ded2daworld:
Probably because we either live or die. :laughing7:

victoriousgospel:

--- Quote from: Molly on November 18, 2012, 11:34:03 PM ---He mentions two conditions:

1) those who die, believe in me, and live

2) those who live and believe in me and never die



If there's a third choice, he's not mentioning it here.

--- End quote ---

Wow, I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately, and JUST read these verses the other day. It's so clear cut here, I can't believe it didn't strike me! This is great, thank you!

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