Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Discussions on Universal Salvation

heaven at death for believers?

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ded2daworld:
 :dontknow:

Paul L:

--- Quote from: ded2daworld on November 25, 2012, 12:37:46 AM --- :dontknow:

--- End quote ---

Well, I'm not quite at that point where I've thrown my hands up in the air totally perplexed.

I think there are explanations for the future of mankind beyond the millennium  which are bound up in what the "book of life" is really all about.

We know who will not have names in the "book of life" , those who work any sort of "abomination" & "lies" Rev 21:27. But if you notice in verse 24, "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it & the kings of the earth do bring their glory & honour into it". Whole nations have been "saved" sometime after the New Jerusalem settles into it's place on Earth & the rulers of these nations come to the city to do homage inside of it....so we don't have a clueless start as to how the redemption of the rest of mankind begins......it ties into the purpose for the New Jerusalem being forged into its place on the earth's crust.

If you recall, "salvation is of the Jews" they were intended to be God's missionaries to the world, the salvation of the earth wholly depends on Israel's relationship with its' Messiah, until that gets fixed, the world will continue to be in a mess. This is what God is fixing, and I would submit that the only names written in the "book of life" are those of the House of Judah & House of Israel, this is what I think Dan 12:1 is cluing us in concerning what names get written into the "book of life", there are no names outside those of Daniel's people to be found in that book, no Body of Christ people, no gentiles, no Catholics......etc.

Now, when you go back to Rev 21:27, who lives inside the city? Only those whose names were written in the "book of life". If only Israelites are allowed to live inside the New Jerusalem, why are the nations of earth's populations & their rulers coming to it as stated in verse 24? They are coming to the city to be taught the ways of God, they are finally sick & tired of trying to do things their way because it has never worked, they enter into the court of the gentiles where they are taught by Israelite missionaries the ways of their Messiah. Upon receiving instruction from their hosts living in the city, then go back to their homelands & the process continues, then at some point in time all the earth is filled with the knowledge of the Lord, but now the really big job begins, getting that same message to all those who have lived & died & never had a chance to learn about Israel's Messiah, gotta be a resurrection in here somewhere to do this....... Thoughts?

Paul L:
The following is an Old Testament prophecy that parallels  what I was explaining in my previous post..........

Zechariah 8:20-23
New King James Version (NKJV)
20 "Thus says the Lord of hosts:

'Peoples shall yet come,
Inhabitants of many cities;
21 The inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying,
"Let us continue to go and pray before the Lord,
And seek the Lord of hosts.
I myself will go also."
22 Yes, many peoples and strong nations
Shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem,
And to pray before the Lord.'
23 "Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."'"

eaglesway:

--- Quote from: Paul L on November 24, 2012, 05:56:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: eaglesway on November 24, 2012, 04:03:13 PM ---You are misreading the verse. The first resurrection is before the 1000 years.


"The rest of the dead did not come to life" is a comparative clause inserted into a description of the first resurrection, which is for those who come to life and reign with Christ for a thousand years, and over whom the second death has no power because they have been judged already- overcomers in Christ victorious through martyrdom -the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and the word of God.

The rest of the dead did not reign for a thousand years, over some of them the second death has power, they did not "come to life" until the thousand years were finished. Read it thoroughly Paul

--- End quote ---

Yep, you're right about that. My focus was on the dead who are resurrected after the 1000 years are up, that's the "resurrection" that comes at the end of the 1000 years. So far as I can tally it, we're up to three distinctly different resurrections.

--- End quote ---

Could be three. As I see it there are two, but the second is divided in half. The first resurrection is for the ovecomers in Christ from all the ages at the second coming at the end of this age. The second, at the end of the millenial age is "the rest if the dead", which to me means all the dead that are left dead after the first resurrection.

IMO they go before the great white throne and those whose names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life go into kolassis(lake of fire/outer darkness). Those whose names are written in the Lambs book of life enter the anakephalaiomai (gathering into one in Christ Eph 1:11 and 1 Cor 15:28)

I actually think the lake of fire is probably an age where the lost and the adversaries are sequestered into "unaproachable light" until every hidden thing is brought to light and every knee bows knee bows. At any rate, when the last adversary is subjected, the ages end and God is all in all- no more time.

Of course as I have said before, these are murky things barely written of- yet, because they are written of, they are worthy of discussion :o)

Paul L:

--- Quote --- author=eaglesway link=topic=10823.msg145166#msg145166 date=1353823133]
--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: Paul L on November 24, 2012, 05:56:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: eaglesway on November 24, 2012, 04:03:13 PM ---You are misreading the verse. The first resurrection is before the 1000 years.


"The rest of the dead did not come to life" is a comparative clause inserted into a description of the first resurrection, which is for those who come to life and reign with Christ for a thousand years, and over whom the second death has no power because they have been judged already- overcomers in Christ victorious through martyrdom -the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and the word of God.

The rest of the dead did not reign for a thousand years, over some of them the second death has power, they did not "come to life" until the thousand years were finished. Read it thoroughly Paul

--- End quote ---

Yep, you're right about that. My focus was on the dead who are resurrected after the 1000 years are up, that's the "resurrection" that comes at the end of the 1000 years. So far as I can tally it, we're up to three distinctly different resurrections.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---Could be three. As I see it there are two, but the second is divided in half. The first resurrection is for the ovecomers in Christ from all the ages at the second coming at the end of this age. The second, at the end of the millenial age is "the rest if the dead", which to me means all the dead that are left dead after the first resurrection.
--- End quote ---

After the 1000 years are concluded, the New Jerusalem descends to earth, another age of human habitation on the planet commences. This is not heaven on earth where there is no more death & dying, that is not the description in Rev 21:24 & Zech 8 entire chapter. Notice in Zech 8:4 "....There shall yet old men & old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem.......5:"And the streets of the city shall be full of boys & girls .....", flesh & blood human population, inhabitants of Jerusalem being reared from childhood & growing old, and presumably dying.......all the while this is going on inside the New Jerusalem we skip to verse 20-23......here we see more flesh & blood human populations pouring into this city to be educated by its inhabitants........in the meantime people are still dying from old age. When do they get a resurrection?

So far my tally of resurrections has increased to four. There's got to be one at the end of the New Jerusalem age for whatever length of time that will be. A thousand more years? A million? A lot of people living & then dying, just like they do now.



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