Has anyone ever thought of this?

[Molly]

You must think no one is ever going to heaven, Micah--is that right?

[micah7:9]

You must think no one is ever going to heaven, Micah--is that right?

I'll take that as humor.

[Molly]

You must think no one is ever going to heaven, Micah--is that right?

I'll take that as humor.

I'm serious.  I'm just trying to figure out what you think.  Do you think at some time in the future we go to heaven?  At the resurrection or something?

[micah7:9]

You must think no one is ever going to heaven, Micah--is that right?

I'll take that as humor.

I'm serious.  I'm just trying to figure out what you think.  Do you think at some time in the future we go to heaven?  At the resurrection or something?

Luk 17:21  Neither shall they say—Lo, here! or, There. For lo! the kingdom of God, is, among/within you.

I believe in the resurrection of the dead just as the Bible states.

"I'm serious.  I'm just trying to figure out what you think.  Do you think at some time in the future we go to heaven?  At the resurrection or something?" Molly


First I don't have a desire to think anything. I have a desire to KNOW.

Do I believe that I will be with Him in the future? Yes, that is my prayer and hope.
Heaven to my understanding is lofty, elevated, high and lifted up One with Him in His glory.
That is what I desire and pray for.
And as far as I can understand the resurrection is of the dead.
I realize and understand that to be born again I have to die; I have the faith, that hope not seen that I am dying to the world, daily.
Yet, I see that Jesus died and it certainly was not a spiritual death.
Jesus died a physical death that He would be the firstfruits of the dead.
For me to get to that heaven you speak about I have to die.
1Co 15:36  Simple one! What, thou, sowest, is not quickened, except it die;

Rom 10:6  Whereas, the righteousness by faith, thus speaketh—Do not say in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? That is, to bring, Christ, down,-

[Ross]

We are made of spirit, body, and soul.
1 Thess 5;23 " But the God of peace Himself hallow you COMPLETELY, and might your entire spirit and soul and body be preserved so as to be unblameable in the Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ."
So to pay the price for every aspect of our being Christ died in every aspect.
John 19;34 " " But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear and straightaway there came out blood and water."
Blood representing the flesh, and water representing the spirit.
We are to be raised from being mortal to becoming mortal in Christ.
1 Cor 15;50 " And I say this brothers that flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption."
vs 53 " For this corruptible must needs clothe itself with incorruptibility, and this mortal, clothe itself with immortality."

[WhiteWings]

At the time he is talking to Nicodemus, he says no one has gone to heaven except him

Do you think the cross changes this?  Does it make a difference to you?

Because then he goes on to say he will be lifted up on the cross so that whoever believes on him will have eternal life.

ETERNAL LIFE MEANS WE NEVER DIE MICAH.  We live from now to the end of this age, then we inherit with him, then we live with him through all the ages to come.

He does not say WHEN that life starts.

[Molly]

At the time he is talking to Nicodemus, he says no one has gone to heaven except him

Do you think the cross changes this?  Does it make a difference to you?

Because then he goes on to say he will be lifted up on the cross so that whoever believes on him will have eternal life.

ETERNAL LIFE MEANS WE NEVER DIE MICAH.  We live from now to the end of this age, then we inherit with him, then we live with him through all the ages to come.

He does not say WHEN that life starts.

'everlasting life' [John 3:16] means perpetual life.

"perpetual"
Adjective: Never ending or changing.
 

one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. Heb 7:16


I have everlasting life right now.  I have crossed over from death to life by my belief in the Lord Jesus Christ.

whosoever believes in him shall....have everlasting life. [John 3:16]

[WhiteWings]

Yeah, I know what everlasting is. It's a unlimited anount of time with a certain starting point.

Your verse only show priests will recieve that life. Not when they recieve it.

[Molly]

Yeah, I know what everlasting is. It's a unlimited anount of time with a certain starting point.

Your verse only show priests will recieve that life. Not when they recieve it.

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

"crossed over"

Metabaino

to change place


But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.


This is a priesthood based....on an indestructible life.

[Cardinal]

  Amen, Molly......we are priests unto Him RIGHT NOW, if we have been baptized in His Spirit. Being a priest required a change of garments; we PUT ON Christ, when are baptized into Him. To be baptized is to be totally immersed in water/Spirit.

It is given unto man to die ONCE, then the resurrection. Dying to self so He can live, counts as ONCE. Paul talked about a resurrection that took place WHILE STILL IN THE BODY, when he said he didn't want to be unclothed (die), but CLOTHED UPON. BUT: it's a process.

If we are seeking His face/nature, then we are dying (to self) every day. Paul said, reckon yourselves dead. Dead men already know where they're "going", they don't have to wait any longer to find out. Neither do we. Paul said we are seated in HEAVENLY places NOW, our conversation is in heaven. You can't speak from a place you've never been before! Blessings....

[eaglesway]

As I see it, the process begins when we "cross over"(pass from death unto life through faith in Christ). It is fulfilled at the last trumpet, in a twinkling of an eye. We have received the earnest of the purchase possesion, a down-payment on the full contract. We groan within ourselves as we await our final "clothing upon" of immortality, the redemption of our bodies. We are presently "clothed upon" by the divine nature, being conformed to the image of Christ, transformed by the renewing of our minds as we "yield our bodies(life in the body) as a living sacrifice.

[Cardinal]

  I agree.    And the last trump is sounding NOW. Blessings....

[eaglesway]

I agree.    And the last trump is sounding NOW. Blessings....

I respectfully disagree, that the 7th trumpet has sounded yet. Nor do I believ the 7 thunders have sounded, I believe they are still sealed.



Revelation 10
The Angel and the Little Book
 1 I saw another strong angel coming down out of heaven, clothed with a cloud; and the rainbow was upon his head, and his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire; 2 and he had in his hand a little book which was open. He placed his right foot on the sea and his left on the land; 3 and he cried out with a loud voice, as when a lion roars; and when he had cried out, the seven peals of thunder uttered their voices. 4 When the seven peals of thunder had spoken, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Seal up the things which the seven peals of thunder have spoken and do not write them." 5 Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, 6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer, 7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

Rev. 11:15-18 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
   
"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever." 16 And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying,

   "We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign.  And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

In this administration(process) in effect until the times are completed and all things are summed up in Christ(Eph 1:9-11), the process is ongoing in history, and although fulfilled in death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, there are knees that have not bowed, adversaries not yet subjected, and stages of subjection not yet complete. There are ages to come. This age ends before another begins.

IMO the angel standing on the sea and the land holding the book that contains the Victorious Gospel is the One New Man, and is yet to be revealed fully, in the earth. He is "coming down out of the heavens". Gestating, so to speak, within the bride.

Eph13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.- This, IMO, is the giant messenger clothed in clouds, head in the heavens, gospel in hand- of Rev 10

The seven thunders, and the seventh trumpet, again, IMO sound as the governments of earth are overthrown by the government of God.

[eaglesway]

By the way, that's what I hope we are doing here in Tentmaker, "Gestating", "Becoming", as iron sharpens iron, the union forged in the fire that becomes the sword proceeding from the mouth of the pattern son, Jesus. Otherwise, we would just be arguing and postulating....how worthless would that be?

[Nathan]

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."

This is where I see the curse being lifted . . .I think the curse isn't this realm as much as it is this realm being the "primary" manifestation.  It's about order and alignment.  Natural is to submit to spiritual . . knowledge submits to  revelation . . .Adam "chose" knowledge and it reversed the order between the two trees.  This passage in Revelation is the restoration of the order of all things . . .this realm goes back to being secondary, the spirit realm returns to primary . . .the kingdom of the world "becomes" the kingdom of our Lord . . .rightness manifests even in the alignment of the heavens and earth

[eaglesway]

P.S. Heaven already IS. We have already received in, as a seed, that is growing into a tree. The veil is torn for us, we have a new and living way into the holiest place, which is the throne room of Jesus- seated in Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus. At the end of the age, "every eye will see him, even those who pierced Him" because the veil will be rent.....for all....heaven swalllowing earth, through the continuing ministry of the sons, gathering all things into one, in ages to come.

"That we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of His glory"

 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together [g]with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,  so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus

 

[Nathan]

 

[micah7:9]

At the time he is talking to Nicodemus, he says no one has gone to heaven except him

Do you think the cross changes this?  Does it make a difference to you?

Because then he goes on to say he will be lifted up on the cross so that whoever believes on him will have eternal life.

ETERNAL LIFE MEANS WE NEVER DIE MICAH.  We live from now to the end of this age, then we inherit with him, then we live with him through all the ages to come.

He does not say WHEN that life starts.

 

[micah7:9]

As I see it, the process begins when we "cross over"(pass from death unto life through faith in Christ). It is fulfilled at the last trumpet, in a twinkling of an eye. We have received the earnest of the purchase possesion, a down-payment on the full contract. We groan within ourselves as we await our final "clothing upon" of immortality, the redemption of our bodies. We are presently "clothed upon" by the divine nature, being conformed to the image of Christ, transformed by the renewing of our minds as we "yield our bodies(life in the body) as a living sacrifice.

Amen

[Cardinal]

I agree.    And the last trump is sounding NOW. Blessings....

I respectfully disagree, that the 7th trumpet has sounded yet. Nor do I believ the 7 thunders have sounded, I believe they are still sealed.

  I can't say about the 7 thunders, but the 7th trump is definitely being sounded. The trump is to remove the flesh off the 7 (read fullness of something here) churches, ie. the body, off HIM, IN that body (the first veil being rent, between the outer and inner courts), so that the manifestation (unveiling, uncovering) of the sons of God can take place, and He can surrender His kingdom over to the Father.

The problem is, that the teaching ministry regarding the sons of God had it's own tare, in that they received the revelation and then corrupted it down to the image of the creation/flesh instead of the Spirit, WHICH IS CHRIST/THE SEED.

God's Son is one Seed (that's why it says Abraham's seed, not being many), in a MANY-MEMBERED BODY, whom He is not ashamed to call brethren (ie. more than one). To manifest is to uncover, reveal, or unveil, but who is it that is to be unvealed? The manifestation therefore of the sons of God, is not about flesh and blood sons, but rather begins with Christ IN US, the hope of glory.

The FATHER was IN CHRIST, reconciling all men unto Himself. Where is Christ now? Is it not in us?

The hope is Christ, the earnest of our portion is Christ, but the glory to be revealed IN US, IS THE FATHER, desiring to bring MANY SONS unto glory. Christ has been in varying stages of revelation since the beginning of the church for the past 2 days/2000 years; it's the Father's turn to be seen again.

It is HE who is to be unveiled or uncovered, thus the pattern Son could say (as we will), WHEN YOU'VE SEEN ME, YOU'VE SEEN THE FATHER. The priest's portion, was God Himself (the Father).

And so it says, that you can't have the Son without the Father or the Father without the Son. The 7th trump is as the circumcision of Abraham, and the FATHER provides the sacrifice (veil to be rent that reveals the Father/Holy of Holies), and He did, Christ/the Seed, the firstfruits. My  Blessings....

[Molly]

The hope is Christ, the earnest of our portion is Christ, but the glory to be revealed IN US, IS THE FATHER, desiring to bring MANY SONS unto glory. Christ has been in varying stages of revelation since the beginning of the church for the past 2 days/2000 years; it's the Father's turn to be seen again

 

Now I"ve got chills.

[Cardinal]

  That's a  good/God thing....

[micah7:9]

"Christ has been in varying stages of revelation since the beginning of the church for the past 2 days/2000 years; it's the Father's turn to be seen again." Cardinal

I believe that Christ has been in varying states of uncovering since Genesis.
Joh 10:30  I and the Father, are, one.
 
And that gives me to shout and dance! Glory!

[eaglesway]

I agree.    And the last trump is sounding NOW. Blessings....

I respectfully disagree, that the 7th trumpet has sounded yet. Nor do I believ the 7 thunders have sounded, I believe they are still sealed.

  I can't say about the 7 thunders, but the 7th trump is definitely being sounded. The trump is to remove the flesh off the 7 (read fullness of something here) churches, ie. the body, off HIM, IN that body (the first veil being rent, between the outer and inner courts), so that the manifestation (unveiling, uncovering) of the sons of God can take place, and He can surrender His kingdom over to the Father.

The problem is, that the teaching ministry regarding the sons of God had it's own tare, in that they received the revelation and then corrupted it down to the image of the creation/flesh instead of the Spirit, WHICH IS CHRIST/THE SEED.

God's Son is one Seed (that's why it says Abraham's seed, not being many), in a MANY-MEMBERED BODY, whom He is not ashamed to call brethren (ie. more than one). To manifest is to uncover, reveal, or unveil, but who is it that is to be unvealed? The manifestation therefore of the sons of God, is not about flesh and blood sons, but rather begins with Christ IN US, the hope of glory.

The FATHER was IN CHRIST, reconciling all men unto Himself. Where is Christ now? Is it not in us?

The hope is Christ, the earnest of our portion is Christ, but the glory to be revealed IN US, IS THE FATHER, desiring to bring MANY SONS unto glory. Christ has been in varying stages of revelation since the beginning of the church for the past 2 days/2000 years; it's the Father's turn to be seen again.

It is HE who is to be unveiled or uncovered, thus the pattern Son could say (as we will), WHEN YOU'VE SEEN ME, YOU'VE SEEN THE FATHER. The priest's portion, was God Himself (the Father).

And so it says, that you can't have the Son without the Father or the Father without the Son. The 7th trump is as the circumcision of Abraham, and the FATHER provides the sacrifice (veil to be rent that reveals the Father/Holy of Holies), and He did, Christ/the Seed, the firstfruits. My  Blessings....

I believe that message has been sounded from the beginning of the gospel till now, it is the gospel of the cross of Christ. That Christ is in us is obvious to those of us in whom He dwells. As to whether that is the 7th trumpet that is written in Revelation 10, and 11... the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52, the great trumpet of Matthew 24:31 and 1 Thess 4:16.... In my opinion "definitely" is far too strong a word. When that trumpet sounds the age will end, and the kingdom of this kosmos will be overthrown by the manifestation kingdom of our God and His Christ. Sure as the word of God is, the children of Israel still had to cross the Red Sea to get to the wilderness, and cross the Jordan to get to the promised land. I believe there are many trumpets, and surely the trumpets have been sounding since Enoch prophecied,

 "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,  to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."



IMO the 7th trumpet is reserved for an announcement that is yet to come, and includes way more than just believers.

I have noticed, the trumpets and the bowls are God speaking to the world. The descriptive phrases surrounding them indicate the responses of unregenerated people against divine authority.
,
Psa 2:1-12   

The Messiah's Triumph and Kingdom


 Why do the nations rage,
    And the people plot a vain thing?
 (2)  The kings of the earth set themselves,
    And the rulers take counsel together,
    Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,
 (3)  "Let us break Their bonds in pieces
    And cast away Their cords from us."
   
 (4)  He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
    The Lord shall hold them in derision.
 (5)  Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
    And distress them in His deep displeasure:
 (6)  "Yet I have set My King
    On My holy hill of Zion."
   
 (7)  "I will declare the decree:
    The LORD has said to Me,
    'You are My Son,
    Today I have begotten You.
 (8)  Ask of Me, and I will give You
    The nations for Your inheritance,
    And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
 (9)  You shall break[a] them with a rod of iron;
    You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.'"
   
 (10)  Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
    Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
 (11)  Serve the LORD with fear,
    And rejoice with trembling.
 (12)  Kiss the Son, lest He[c] be angry,
    And you perish in the way,
    When His wrath is kindled but a little.
    Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.


I am happy though, that as we may disagree on some of the particulars, we agree on the end result. All will be reconciled, God will be ALL IN ALL. Someday we will know as we are known, and it will be beautiful, because we will know what is the height and the depth and the breadth of the love of Christ....and be filled up unto all the fulness of God. Peace

[Cardinal]

  @ Eaglesway.....Amen.

For what it's worth, He told me this was the message of the 7th trump, but I didn't tell anyone. When I posted it (on another board a few years back) without saying the part about it being the 7th trump, that morning He told someone else who hears, that it was the 7th trump.

@ Micah. I agree, but the pattern as completed (to be repeated by us spiritually) was not revealed until He came in the flesh. Blessings....