God's perfect hatred?

[At peace]

Hey All,

This preacher on youtube is talking about hell. Halfway through the sermon, he talks about God's perfect hatred for those in hell.

link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIr7JXoZ110&feature=related

If you are doubting god's perfect love for his children, listen to this guy and you will doubt no more. My spirit was wounded by listening to the horrible things he had to say, but in the end, it made my faith stronger. I think his sermon actually will cause people to believe less in eternal hell, he has no understanding of God's mercy and love.

He even goes as far as to say, that we will watch our loved ones suffer torment and not care anymore. A fire has been lit in my soul to preach the truth, like never before. Jesus loves us all and will bring us home.

At peace

[Davo22]

He even goes as far as to say, that we will watch our loved ones suffer torment and not care anymore.

Yeppo, I've seen that one. Have a listen to John Wagner's one here: http://www.christiansintouch.com/sermons.cfm.

Scroll down until you see "God's Hell" by John Wagner. It's about 12 up from the bottom.

[Andromeda_Organa]

This guy is sick. I don't even have to watch him to know that. He reminds me of the "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" guy.

[alihaymeg]

Our beliefs about our God are reflected in our actions. From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. I wouldn't want to serve that God. Luckily for us, He doesn't exist. No, our God is pure love and sees all those who have not come to the knowledge of Him as prodigal sons and daughters. They will all be with us again and share in the complete victory won by Jesus Christ. I have no doubt of that.

My prayer for this man is that he may find a way to punch a hole in his religious armor that he may allow the Holy Spirit to lead him into the truth.

Young's literal Translation
 "Verily I say to you, if ye may not be turned and become as the children, ye may not enter into the reign of the heavens"

Become as little children. Humble, teachable and free from selfish ambition, like little children.

[HappyBoy!]

"Perfect hatred" reminds me of a commentary I was reading on Rev 14:9-11.  It said the presence of the Lamb and the Holy Angels made their suffering more, "exquisite".   

[firstborn888]

"Perfect hatred" reminds me of a commentary I was reading on Rev 14:9-11.  It said the presence of the Lamb and the Holy Angels made their suffering more, "exquisite".   

It gets even worse (if that's possible). A Calvinist fellow told me how watching the damned for eternity will bring him so much joy and thankfulness that he is not among them.

All heart, eh?

[WhiteWings]

The damned aren't really damned because there shall be no more sorrow and all tears are old things are passed away...

[Shadow]

It gets even worse (if that's possible). A Calvinist fellow told me how watching the damned for eternity will bring him so much joy and thankfulness that he is not among them.
All heart, eh?

This is EXACTLY the selfish, cold hearted attitude that makes my blood boil  , and which led me to question if what I was hearing in the church pulpits was indeed the truth 

Unlike these calvinists I would face anything for something like that not to be true, I'd rather be a homeless hobo and have UR to be true, than have everything I could have in this world, and be guaranteed of salvation myself at the expense of just one person ever born having to face something so horrible, words can't express how I feel 

David and Zoe Sulem's book comes closest to explaining how I feel at the moment and I agree with their teachings on freewill

This is what they say about people that think God will torture unbelievers forever, and I must say I fully agree with them 

People who believe that God will punish unbelievers in hell forever lack the spirit of forgiveness, which Jesus had when He prayed on the cross and asked His Father to forgive His very murderers.

Taken from Calvinism, Arminianism and Universalism

http://www.godoftheages.com/site/1351515/page/686544

[Tony N]

People who believe that God will punish unbelievers in hell forever lack the spirit of forgiveness, which Jesus had when He prayed on the cross and asked His Father to forgive His very murderers.

Taken from Calvinism, Arminianism and Universalism

http://www.godoftheages.com/site/1351515/page/686544

Not only that, if et is true it makes God a hypocrite for did He not say: Love your enemies. Do good to those who spitefully use you and abuse you?

[Andromeda_Organa]

"Perfect hatred" reminds me of a commentary I was reading on Rev 14:9-11.  It said the presence of the Lamb and the Holy Angels made their suffering more, "exquisite".   

It gets even worse (if that's possible). A Calvinist fellow told me how watching the damned for eternity will bring him so much joy and thankfulness that he is not among them.

All heart, eh?

are you SERIOUS?

[HappyBoy!]

"Perfect hatred" reminds me of a commentary I was reading on Rev 14:9-11.  It said the presence of the Lamb and the Holy Angels made their suffering more, "exquisite".   

It gets even worse (if that's possible). A Calvinist fellow told me how watching the damned for eternity will bring him so much joy and thankfulness that he is not among them.

All heart, eh?

are you SERIOUS?

He must be.  I've seen a similar statement in another commentary.  I'll have to look it up and post it.

[WhiteWings]

Yep he's serious (and right) about that.

Some doctrines are very uncompatible with the Bible.
God is love. God tortures forever. All in heaven are happy even if they are missing 95% of all they have ever known.
So they must twist, turn and add to make make their doctrine fit.

[Paul Hazelwood]

The argument the Justice concerning this is actually a contradiction in what many christians will teach concerning Gods righteousness being just in the manner that anyone who is in Hell it will one day be understood by those in heaven.

Few if any Christians who take that view will say that God forces himself upon us, the question that remains for them to answer is that "if" it is true that there is the possibility that hell exists as a place of eternal separation from God in any capacity then what of me?

Since I am a believer and do accept Jesus as my Savior,  God will indeed have to force a change in me to accept that "eternal" punishment / separation of any sort is just, so then,  what becomes of me if I refuse to accept that even though I accept Jesus as Savior?

It appears that there is a really strange view of this when it comes down to it.  Christians seem to be ok with him forcing away their tears concerning that, but not ok with God forcing away the evil from those that Christians think should be in hell.

[WhiteWings]

And their reply will be that God can't stand evil.
Firstly I think God can stand everything. A walk in hell has no effect on Him.
Secondly all humans in heaven are sinners too.
Not unlikely that the worst sinner of all is in heaven and the least sinner is in hell.
The only thing that seems to matter is that you believe in Jesus.
That's true. I accept that. But....
A Christian serial killer goes to hell and a super helpful and kind atheist is toast because he endangers Heaven while a serial killer doesn't?

[firstborn888]

"Perfect hatred" reminds me of a commentary I was reading on Rev 14:9-11.  It said the presence of the Lamb and the Holy Angels made their suffering more, "exquisite".   

It gets even worse (if that's possible). A Calvinist fellow told me how watching the damned for eternity will bring him so much joy and thankfulness that he is not among them.

All heart, eh?

are you SERIOUS?

And there's one worse. The same guy who told me this is all over the web (he goes by Beloved57). He also told me he will be laughing at the plight of the damned when he sees them in the fire (even if they happened to be his wife or kids) because it will be God's perfect justice and reward being accomplished. I won't repeat here what I told him about the condition of his heart

Think about it though. Arminians often argue that it would be cruel of God to force the bliss of heaven upon those who don't want it. On the other hand, they seek to DISTANCE themselves from it (the LOF) and claim they won't even remember their lost loved ones ect.

My response is that if it is so merciful that God did not force His love upon them and so right and good of Him to place them in the eternal flame then why do they want nothing to do with it? Why shouldn't they rejoice if it is the perfect goodness and just will of God (think about it).

It's because they KNOW it's unconscionable, to which they often respond that they have just that silly human empathy which God lacks.

Then I show them that if they are with God, and Jesus, they will witness the LOF 

Most don't like to hear about that part....