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Online eaglesway

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2010, 08:00:22 PM »
But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
(2Pe 3:8)

Taught as a euphemism for the eternal nature of God, this statement, especially in the context of the rest the chapter, is really so much more ;o)
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Offline Dallas

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2010, 01:53:45 AM »
Quote
do you think we are in the last days?

Acts 2 (The Day of Pentecost) 2:4 "But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words.

   15 "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;

   16 but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
      17'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says
,

Hebrews 1:1 "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.


There are many, many more scriptures with the apostles testifying that they were living in the last days. The last days biblically speaking was always refering to the last days of the Mosaic Covenant, never did it ever refer to the end of the planet in a destruction sense.

Offline Dallas

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2010, 02:02:33 AM »
I live in the seventh day.... the day of rest. The eternal never ending day of rest. The seventh day was concearning the end of the law, as long as the law was established and had power then people could work for righteousness, but when rest came... day seven was established and ended work.

Day seven was and is acknowledged by Jewish scholars and contemporary scholars as the day of completion, that's why Jews use the number seven to mean complete. When used in conjuction with work day seven was always the complete day of rest.

The Hebrew people and prophets always looked forward to this day, prophesied by David and Moses...but because of the hardness of the hearts of the Hebrew people in the wilderness when God brought them out, God promised that they would never enter into the day 7 rest, the day of complete rest based on tier work.

But for Me!!! Because faith came, the faith of Jesus, I was brought into complete rest, for I have rested from all my works, from trying to become righteous by my own work but instead rest on His.

Hebrews 4:1 "Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.

   2For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.

   3For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
         "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
         THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,"
         although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

   4For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";

   5and again in this passage, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."

   6Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

   7He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
         "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
         DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."

   8For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.

   9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

   10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

Offline CHB

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2010, 03:08:39 AM »
Quote from: Dallas
   
16 but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
      17'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,

Hebrews 1:1 "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Hi Dallas,

I agree that the last days that was spoken of at times were in the apostles day and the end of the law.

I have a question? Could "the last days" also mean the end of all things. I am thinking, what if there will be another "last days" when all is in all?

There were two Covenants, the end of one has already been. There will be an end of the New Covenant when all is in all, don't you think? There will be no need for a Covenant when everyone becomes a Spirit being. Just thinking here.

CHB


Offline CHB

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2010, 06:35:04 PM »
Some say the beast is every man, the beast in us. Some say it is the monetary system, credit cards, implants, you name it.

I use to think that it was a man of the Middle East who would set up his kingdom in Jerusalem and reinstitute the laws of Moses. These laws are the only thing in the Bible where God says "And ye shall bind them for a SIGN upon thine HAND, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes" Deut.6:8). I always thought this verse went with (Rev. 13:16-17) "And he caused all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark {sign} in their right hand, or in their foreheads". 

The only thing is, I believe the book of Revelation was written mostly to the Israelites. The angel did tell John to "write the things which thou HAST SEEN, and the things which ARE, and the things WHICH SHALL BE HEREAFTER". I don't think there will be a beast in the future, I think he existed in the apostles day or just after. The reason I think this is, Revelation speaks about a Lamb, we all know the Lamb was Jesus before his crucifixion. It also speaks of kings and priests, which I believe only applies to Israel. It also speaks of WORKS which only applies to the laws, or Covenants. It may be that this will be a repeat but as of now, I have come to the conclusion that this has already happened. The reason I say "as of now" is, someone may say something to change my mind in the future.

CHB


Offline Dallas

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2010, 07:07:56 PM »
Quote
There will be no need for a Covenant when everyone becomes a Spirit being.

Everyone is a spirit being, fully spirit and physical body. The whole idea of death preceeds someone perfected body is faulty. One scripture taken and blown into something it was never meant to.

You are quite caught on the flesh. It seems to hold you back from acknowledging some very fundamental understandings. Take out your concordance and research the word. Flesh as it pertains to salvation is tied to man's ability to follow the law, not a body of sinew and tissue. This physical body holds you back from nothing.

1 John "For as He is, so are we in this world"


ps.... the beast is nero ceasar, it's becoming common knowledge finally.

Offline CHB

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2010, 08:41:25 PM »
Quote
There will be no need for a Covenant when everyone becomes a Spirit being.

Everyone is a spirit being, fully spirit and physical body. The whole idea of death preceeds someone perfected body is faulty. One scripture taken and blown into something it was never meant to.

You are quite caught on the flesh. It seems to hold you back from acknowledging some very fundamental understandings. Take out your concordance and research the word. Flesh as it pertains to salvation is tied to man's ability to follow the law, not a body of sinew and tissue. This physical body holds you back from nothing.

1 John "For as He is, so are we in this world"


ps.... the beast is nero ceasar, it's becoming common knowledge finally.

Hi Dallas,

Yes, I understand in a lot of places the flesh is referred to as law. but not in every verse.

(Job 19:26)  (Acts 2:26) (Acts 2:17)  (Isaiah 40:5) (Psalms 65:2) (Mark 14:48) (John 6:63) (Rom. 8:3) (Rom 6:19) (Gal. 2:20). There are many more scriptures that speak of the flesh that doesn't sound like they have any thing to do with law.

I guess I am confused as to what you believe about death. Are you saying that our flesh does not die? If this is true, why do we have funerals, dig a grave, bury a body? Where is everyone that is not here now? Flesh in my understanding of salvation is what will be destroyed, the law doesn't save anyone. Please explain what you mean.

You may be right about Nero being the beast.

CHB

Offline Molly

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2010, 09:51:01 PM »
Quote from: Dallas
.... the beast is nero ceasar, it's becoming common knowledge finally.


Nero himself?  Or the system he represents--elevating man to the position of God?  A system which has never really gone away?



Nero's rule is often associated with tyranny and extravagance.[3] He is known for a number of executions, including those of his mother[4] and stepbrother, and as the emperor who "fiddled while Rome burned",[5] and as an early persecutor of Christians. This view is based upon the main surviving sources for Nero's reign—Tacitus, Suetonius and Cassius Dio. Few surviving sources paint Nero in a favorable light.[6]

Over time, Nero became progressively more powerful, freeing himself of his advisers and eliminating rivals to the throne. In 55, he removed Marcus Antonius Pallas, an ally of Agrippina, from his position in the treasury.[30] Pallas, along with Burrus, was accused of conspiring against the emperor to bring Faustus Sulla to the throne.[34] Seneca was accused of having relations with Agrippina and embezzlement.[35] Seneca succeeded in having himself, Pallas and Burrus acquitted.[35] According to Cassius Dio, at this time, Seneca and Burrus reduced their role in governing from careful management to mere moderation of Nero.[36]

To consolidate power, Nero executed a number of people in 62 and 63 including his rivals Pallas, Rubellius Plautus and Faustus Sulla.[53] According to Suetonius, Nero "showed neither discrimination nor moderation in putting to death whomsoever he pleased" during this period.[54]

Nero's consolidation of power also included a slow usurping of authority from the Senate. In 54, Nero promised to give the Senate powers equivalent to those under Republican rule.[55] By 65, senators complained that they had no power left and this led to the Pisonian conspiracy.[56]

According to Tacitus, the population searched for a scapegoat and rumors held Nero responsible.[83] To deflect blame, Nero targeted Christians. He ordered Christians to be thrown to dogs, while others were crucified and burned.[83]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero





1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
       " 'In the pride of your heart
       you say, "I am a god;
       I sit on the throne of a god
       in the heart of the seas."
       But you are a man and not a god,
       though you think you are as wise as a god.


--Eze 28

Offline Dallas

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #59 on: April 18, 2010, 07:17:09 AM »
Quote
Hi Dallas,

Yes, I understand in a lot of places the flesh is referred to as law. but not in every verse.

(Job 19:26)  (Acts 2:26) (Acts 2:17)  (Isaiah 40:5) (Psalms 65:2) (Mark 14:48) (John 6:63) (Rom. 8:3) (Rom 6:19) (Gal. 2:20). There are many more scriptures that speak of the flesh that doesn't sound like they have any thing to do with law.

I guess I am confused as to what you believe about death. Are you saying that our flesh does not die? If this is true, why do we have funerals, dig a grave, bury a body? Where is everyone that is not here now? Flesh in my understanding of salvation is what will be destroyed, the law doesn't save anyone. Please explain what you mean.

You may be right about Nero being the beast.

CHB

It's interesting to note that some of the above scriptures have already been translated away from flesh, such as Acts 2:17 where the more founded response of flesh is translated to mankind, based upon an ancient language there are many disputes about that word for example the Isaiah scripture, Isaiah 40:5:

      5Then the glory of the LORD will be revealed,
         And all flesh will see it together;
         For the mouth of the LORD has spoken."

How will all flesh see it, what about the blind, those who are without eyes? Does this mean that the Glory of the Lord is a physical tangible thing that can be seen...even an invisible God?

The whole idea of the "flesh" has been long misrepresented because of it's arcane use versus our modern day usage.

Psalm 65:2, King James "O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come." and now the NASB (same scripture just updated language use) Psalm 65: O You who hear prayer, To You all men come"

Now I'm not suggesting that it's wrong, it's our misunderstanding of Ancient Elizabethean English. Even modern day Elizabeathen, those speaking english in Europe do not speak in the same usage as we do. It is not as hell dissappears for error, but flesh is disappearing for context in a north american cultural use.


If I were to say to someone in Harlem, "Let's go smoke a fag" I would be suggesting murdering a homosexual, but in England I would be saying, "Let us go have a cigarette."

Just as in England they would say, God poured out His spirit on all flesh, we in america say, God poured His spirit out on all mankind.




There is a contextual awarness that needs to bring about meaning for that word, both before and after the text.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2010, 07:31:44 AM »
The fact I still have the text of Holy Scripture testifies to the fact that it is still operative for Jesus says, "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot (yod) or one tittle (Heb: taagin, or, tagin) shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Mt 5:18, AV)


one jot (Eng:  the cross of a "t.")  (Heb: yod; the smallest Hebrew letter; the Massorites numbered 66,420 of them.) (The Greek text has:  iota)

or one tittle (Eng:  a dot over an "i.")  Tittle is diminuitive of title [Latin:  titulus] =a small mark placed over a word for any pupose:  e.g., to mark an abbreviation. (Heb: taagin, or, tagin, meaning little crowns.  The merest ornament placed over specific letters in the Hebrew text.  They do not affect the meaning, but are used to scrupulouly guard that even one letter on the text would not be lost.  Various letters at certain places had three, four, five, six, or even seven of these marks crowning that letter.  The Greek speaking Jews called them little horns, [Heb:  keranoth] because they looked like horns.  The Greek text here has keraia = horn.  This follows the Massorites record of what they are though some more recent books have another explanation, that of comparing similar Hebrew letters.)

Matthew 5:17-19 (Concordant Literal Translation):
17 "You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.
18 For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.
19 "Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens."

These have not passed.  I have them on my desk, my computer and all about.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 07:35:20 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2010, 07:45:42 AM »
We must wait the procession of development until the sixth period (Heb: tag = day or period) of light and dark for the Image of God to appear.  Then, that image must enter into the day without night, the sabbath rest.  We are now in the forming  of that bride Christa who with the annointing Christ will have dominion in all the earth.  Until the manifestation of the sons of God, reigning with Him, the Image (form) and Likeness (similatude) unveiled as the irrisistable authority in all the earth and for all that dwell therein, the consumation of entering into the seventh Millenial Day. This Age of Tabernacles has not occured for the crop of the sons born of the Seed, Who has entered, the Head being first born.

When entering the land of Promise (resurrection life) the Priests carrying the ark proceeded till, when their feet touched the river it stands up all the way to Adam, and the priest go on dry ground to stand in the midst of the riverbed.  They were two thousand cubits ahead of the rest of the people.  The priests with the ark stood till all had passed by.  We are about two thousand years since Jesus, God's ark of the testimony, entered the river and stood conquoring all back to Adam.  The time is at hand to enter in to our inheritance, which is the fullness of the Holy Ghost, the blessing of Abraham, for which God must physically modify us.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 04:59:11 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Dallas

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #62 on: April 18, 2010, 08:03:31 AM »
Quote
Acts 2:17:

      17'(A)AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
         'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND

Hey CHB, forgot to reply to this,

I must question, God will pour out His non-physical spirit ipon physical corporeal flesh of man? So God's spirit becomes flesh?

Offline Molly

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #63 on: April 18, 2010, 10:05:37 AM »

14And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.


--John 1

Online eaglesway

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #64 on: April 18, 2010, 07:16:13 PM »
Some thoughts:

"Flesh" and "law" can mean different things according to context.

The word was made flesh and tabernacled among us.

Rom 8:4  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus was made flesh but did not walk after the flesh, therefore death could not hold Him, "neither did His flesh see corruption". God was "manifest in the flesh" and because of Jesus-

 Psa 16:9  Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.

"because the arm of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh see it together"

"law" can refer to the corrupted code that the Pharisees constructed by wrongly interpreting the "law" of Moses. The law of Moses is a manifestation of the "law of God" but is not in itself "law of God written on their  hearts" seeing as that they(Romans 1&2) were justified by that "law" on their hearts not having the "law" written in stone. In some places the "law" is a positive thing, expressing the spirit, in some places it is a negative thing, expressing the letter. The letter kills the spirit gives life- "life to my flesh and strength to my bones". The Spirit defines the context.

Joh 6:52  The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

Luk 24:39  Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
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Offline CHB

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #65 on: April 18, 2010, 08:37:36 PM »
Quote
Acts 2:17:

      17'(A)AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
         'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND

Hey CHB, forgot to reply to this,

I must question, God will pour out His non-physical spirit ipon physical corporeal flesh of man? So God's spirit becomes flesh?


No, but wouldn't the flesh become more spiritual?  What I mean is, if we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us aren't we more spiritual than if we didn't have it?

CHB

Offline Molly

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #66 on: April 18, 2010, 09:23:47 PM »
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
--John 6:51

[living] "bread"

G740
ἄρτος
artos
ar'-tos
From G142; bread (as raised) or a loaf: - (shew-) bread, loaf.


G142
αἴρω
airō
ah'ee-ro
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).




John 6:27
27 Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal."



"seal"

G4973
σφραγίς
sphragis
sfrag-ece'
Probably strengthened from G5420; a signet (as fencing in or protecting from misappropriation); by implication the stamp impressed (as a mark of privacy, or genuineness), literally or figuratively: - seal.


« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 09:31:02 PM by Molly »

Offline Nathan

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2010, 10:50:47 PM »
Quote
Acts 2:17:

      17'(A)AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
         'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND

Hey CHB, forgot to reply to this,

I must question, God will pour out His non-physical spirit ipon physical corporeal flesh of man? So God's spirit becomes flesh?


No, but wouldn't the flesh become more spiritual?  What I mean is, if we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us aren't we more spiritual than if we didn't have it?

CHB

For me, to become more spiritual is like becoming more pregnant.  However, it wasn't that the disciples became more spiritual after the upper room experience.  It was that spiritual truth became much clearer to their understanding. 

I am a spirit first and foremost.  My spirit has a personality (soul) and it temporarily lives in this natural fleshly body.  This body of flesh is what's attracted to fleshy things and is also what falls into bondage with fleshly desires.  But I am still "a" spirit.  The enablement of spiritual clarity comes through the "realigning" of my spirit and my personality or my mind.  If I live only or predominantly according to my mind, then spiritual clarity can not manifest.

But if I allow my mind to be in submission to my spirit, then the kingdom Jesus first taught about becomes alive in my understanding.  I believe we are living in a dominantly natural realm because Adam chose knowledge over life.  He threw the original alignment of things out of whack when he received fruit from Eve.

The ark of Noah depicts the reversal of that misalignment through the prophetic decrees given to man through the spirit.  God used and uses natural people and experiences to illuminate spiritual truths.  Revelation, the book, is no different than any of the other books in that it depicts the happenings to nations and people in the natural is the same pattern that transpires within every man in the spiritual. 

Nero was "the" antichrist being depicted for that generation to whom Revelation was originally written to.  However, "in" every one of us there is also and antichrist equivelant in that our minds are always at emnity against God.  God uses natural experiences to reveal spiritual truths.

The volcano that has recently erupted . . .what's the main theme that the media is broadcasting?  It's all about the airlines.

For me, the aftermath is the results of ash . . .burnt up particles infiltraiting in the air.  It's the shaking of a burned sacrifice in that the carnal things of men are being burned, consumed and the ash of that which was burned is mixed in the atmosphere . . .which represents spirit realm . . .and when you mix the two together, it disables man from the ability to fly.  Spiritually speaking of course.

God uses the natural expereinces to reveal spiritual truths.

Offline Dallas

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2010, 11:33:35 PM »
Quote
No, but wouldn't the flesh become more spiritual?  What I mean is, if we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us aren't we more spiritual than if we didn't have it?

CHB

I think we are talking about two different things. You seem to present spirituality as seperate from this material world, almost like a different exsistance, two going on at one time.

Biblcally speaking, spiritual things are the unseen things. What are the unseen things...

Example; Think of the number seven, create a picture of the number in your head then say it in your head. Do this a few times.... Now, you don't have eye's in your brain yet you seen the number as real as you would have with your physical eyes, you heard a voice in your head even though you have no mouth to say it in your brain nor a mouth even to form the words. Those are the unseen things, also emotions....stress is an emotion that causes a physical reaction, fear can make some one throw up. The spirit is not a seperate thing from your physical, the difference is, you can't see the spiritual. That's were life and death exsist. You can't become more spiritual or less, as Nathan correctly described it, you just become more mindful of it. You set you mind on the things of the spirit....peace joy and righteousness instead of accumulating possesions etc.

Offline CHB

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #69 on: April 20, 2010, 01:37:58 AM »

Hi Dallas, Nathan,

I realize I didn't use the right words in explaining what I was trying to get across. Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying? I was thinking about what Paul said in (Gal. 5:16) "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh".

(Gal. 5:17)"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh".

If we are not fulfilling the the lust of the flesh, wouldn't the Spirit be more evident in us than the flesh?

In Acts 2:17) that says I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh: and your sons and daughters shall prophesy.

Won't the Spirit be more manifested in those who have the Spirit poured out on them, than they did before it was poured out on them?

I would have to say I am more spiritual now than I use to be. Is that a wrong perception

CHB

Offline Dallas

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2010, 02:03:46 AM »
Hey CHB,

I explained what I know to be by definition spiritual. What is spiritual by definition in your mind?

Because I get conflicting understandings from your statements.
Quote
Won't the Spirit be more manifested in those who have the Spirit poured out on them, than they did before it was poured out on them?

I would have to say I am more spiritual now than I use to be.

Won't the Spirit be more revealed in those who have the spirit poured out on them? So those who haven't had the spirit poured out on them do manifest the spirit?

You are more spiritual, what was less spiritual?

I honestly don't understand your word usage, please define it for me.

Dallas

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2010, 05:45:06 AM »
A "spiritual" man is not the result of even many spiritual experiences.  After the Holy Spirit enters, quickens and raises the human spirit to life, being "spiritual" comes about as one is consistently given over to the spirit in contradistinction to the flesh.  Not only is the body substance, though physical, but spirit itself is actual substance.

When we are born physically into the world we have senses like the lowered Adam creature we are.  When we are born from above this new life in union with God also comes with senses, only they are spiritual or extended senses.  Though in part (until the liberation of the physical into born of resurrection glory) we see God and see things by the means of God:  visions, a quickening of the eye of understanding, and even seeing in the soulical as well as the spiritual dimensions.  Smell corresponds with the discerning of spirits.  Touch imparts spirit and feels spirits, and so on.  If some do not have much experience with this it doesn't make it false or delusional.  It is available to all as our inheritance being born of God.

I don't remember if we have a "What is spirit, spirits, spiritual, spirituality?" thread, but maybe it would be good to move some of these posts and start one.  What do you think?
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2010, 06:10:50 AM »
When we are born from above

Thank you.  Good starting point.   :thumbsup:

Offline Nathan

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #73 on: April 20, 2010, 03:59:45 PM »
Quote
No, but wouldn't the flesh become more spiritual?  What I mean is, if we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us aren't we more spiritual than if we didn't have it?

CHB

I think we are talking about two different things. You seem to present spirituality as seperate from this material world, almost like a different exsistance, two going on at one time.

Biblcally speaking, spiritual things are the unseen things. What are the unseen things...

Example; Think of the number seven, create a picture of the number in your head then say it in your head. Do this a few times.... Now, you don't have eye's in your brain yet you seen the number as real as you would have with your physical eyes, you heard a voice in your head even though you have no mouth to say it in your brain nor a mouth even to form the words. Those are the unseen things, also emotions....stress is an emotion that causes a physical reaction, fear can make some one throw up. The spirit is not a seperate thing from your physical, the difference is, you can't see the spiritual. That's were life and death exsist. You can't become more spiritual or less, as Nathan correctly described it, you just become more mindful of it. You set you mind on the things of the spirit....peace joy and righteousness instead of accumulating possesions etc.

For me there's a flip side to this in that my mind has the ability to "create" an image that is not accurate or real.  That's what my "image"ination does.  It "creates" an image through logic and reasoning in my "head" not my heart.  And because my "head" doesn't have the capacity to grasp the spiritual realities, I can't rely on those images my head produces.  My "spirit", however,  projects images "to" my head.  My head sees but can't understand, or make any sense of it until the spirit also clarifies what's being projected. 

Not only do we eat his flesh, but we also drink his blood.  Why?  Because just eating the flesh will bring satisfaction to my flesh, which is temporary.  But eating the flesh and drinking the blood, because life is in the blood, drinking in his blood ushers in and sustains his life in my flesh.  His flesh, to me, is the bread, the words "of" life.  His blood is what brings clariity to the words "of" life and transforms the words "of" life into a blending of my "life" manifesting his word.

In this realm, everything revolves around my mind.  If I can't understand it, then there is no advancement or growth until I do.  But with spiritual truth, it's just the opposite.  We "can't" grow "until" we stop trying to reason with spiritual matters.

The message of the spirit comes by way of "sound".  Not by soundwaves in the natural sense, but spiritually . . .yikes . . .it's so hard for the mind to even explain what spirit is.  Jesus stated his words are spirit.  And what do those words do?  They "bring" life and light.  And where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.  "That's" the sound.  The sound can't be heard by natural ears, but it's results can be seen by natural eyes.  Jesus said "my sheep know the "sound" of my voice.  His words are spirit and they have a "sound" that sets us free.

Thus, it's by way of sound that liberty comes in us.  You ever sit and listen to any given televangelist?  You can tell in just minutes whether there is true sound coming from them, or whether it's simply a bunch of noise.  That's all I'm trying to say.  Words of liberation and life come through the sound of truth where as religion and control comes by way of rhetoric and noise.

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Re: Future and Church Prophecy
« Reply #74 on: April 20, 2010, 07:46:31 PM »
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
(1Co 13:1)

 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge.
(Psa 19:1-2)

since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
(Rom 1:19-20)

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)
(Rom 2:14-15)

"Lord, Lord, didn't we do many mighty works in your name?"...."I was thirsty and you gave me no drink"..."Depart from me you lawless ones, I never knew you".

Some have heard the sound, tho never having been presented with "the noise." Some, continually making, "the noise"... have nevertheless never heard the sound.

This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
(1Jn 3:10)

If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.
(1Jn 3:17-20)

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
(1Jn 4:7)


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