Author Topic: historical question again  (Read 944 times)

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Offline sven

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historical question again
« on: March 08, 2009, 05:18:58 PM »
as far as I know there were 6 ancient christian schools
4 taught UR, one conditional immortality (annihilation), one everlasting punishment (Karthago or Rome)

in the book The Jerome conspiracy it says that the Antioch school was known for its insistence on a very strict literal interpretation and that it was it  founded in opposition to Origen and his allegorical school. Yet the Antioch school taught UR.

I'm very interested in the eschatology of the Antioch school as they interpreted the Bible literally and were universalists.

I'm also very interested in the eschatology of the school which taught conditional immortality, what they thought about future punishment, this was maybe the school of Ephesus?

is there anything known?


Offline Universalist Catholic

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Re: historical question again
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2010, 05:41:01 AM »
I believe what happened was they understood the bible in a more simplistic form than Origens interpretation, which was more allegorical. 

Jerm

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Re: historical question again
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2010, 03:52:22 AM »
Not certain about Antioch but I know that Origen and the others from Alexandria held to a system of theology infused with philosophy.  Like UC said, Origen was the first (I believe but could be wrong) to employ an allegorical system of interpretation.  He believed that every text had three levels of meaning to it.  The first is the simply meaning that is quite plain to see.  The second is a deeper level that takes some digging to get at.  And finally the third is the deepest level within the text and it takes a great deal of study and reflection to find it.  He suggest that all Scripture be read this way, especially the OT (He saw the Hebrew Scriptures as being just as much about Christ as the Christian Scriptures, one just had to look deep enough.)  Origen definitely had some weird ideas but no one can idea that the dude was brilliant beyond words.  Guess you could call the first Mad Genius of Christianity.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: historical question again
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2010, 04:15:17 AM »

There is a fellowship of the Spirit that was and is and is to come that is only taught by the Lord Jesus Christ Almighty.
His Holy Tabernacle without guile.
Throughout all generations has been a golden thread weaving a fine linen so bright it glows as the Son.
 

Offline Nathan

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Re: historical question again
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2010, 04:33:56 AM »
I know nothing of this Origen guy, but just from your explanation, he sounds  a lot like what I see as well.  For me there is a bit of a difference as to how we can see the third dimension. 

First dimension for me is again, the literal story
Second dimension is the moral of the story
Third dimension is the inward application. . .which is what I call the spiritual because rather than studying really hard, for me, it's not something that comes through my mind in heavy labor .. . but rather it's simply 'revealed" through my relationship with the Father.  Flesh and blood can't teach it.  It's the Peter experience.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: historical question again
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2010, 04:50:37 AM »
Yes Nathan,
and Peter's Pride led him to:
                                          once
                                          twice
                                          three
                                          times deny knowing Jesus in the flesh after the "Peter experience."

See, the Spirit upon (knowing) something can leave you (forgetting),
the Spirit within (Christ) will never leave.
He becomes one with us so as to quicken our very life.

Apoc

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Re: historical question again
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2010, 04:15:20 AM »
Origen was a great theologian and his father was a martyr.  Origen took some steps outside the acceptable norm, contemplating the pre-existence of the soul and further characterization of alternative realities -the earthly vs spiritual.  He was anathematized.  Basically, kicked out of the church and teachings stamped with heresy. However, the debate rages on kind of like opening a an old cold case for reasons of possible misjudgment and decree.  Here is a short link to read more about Origen:

http://www.apocatastasis.org/saints.html

You might also find ST GREGORY NAZIANZEN to help with similar early theology
http://en.hilarion.orthodoxia.org/6_5