Author Topic: Free wills, I know...but this?  (Read 1080 times)

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Free wills, I know...but this?
« on: April 05, 2009, 09:44:20 PM »
After this one in Ray Smith's e-mail in his website:

Dear Ray,

In the letter I sent on July 23 about freedom of choice you answered me with this reply "we are not the captains of our own destiny ... you will quit smoking when GOD DECIDES YOU WILL QUIT SMOKING and not before"

If this is true, then we ARE puppets with God pulling the strings. This means that God is in charge of all sin.

If this is so why did Jesus have to suffer for our sins if we really are not in control of sinning?

If it is true then all of those TV evangelists are preaching about hell because GOD HASN'T DECIDED TO STOP THEM YET.

All the misinterpretations of the bible that cause people to hate God's children because they are different WONT STOP UNTIL GOD DECIDES.

Ray is this what you mean is happening unknown to us? I just want to understand what you are saying. I really am not being arrogant, even though its sounds that way.

I am a Christian for sixty years. For the past two years I have been researching past Christian history. It puts a new outlook on what I have read. I have always blamed mankind for the Spanish inquisition, slavery, white man slaughtering the American Indians, etc.

I just don't want to believe they were all GODS DECISIONS. Do you understand what Ii am trying to say Ray?

Very sincerely,


[Ray Replies]

Dear Grace:

Your feelings and thoughts are not unusual.  Many people who come into a knowledge of the Truth [Jesus] have a real battle on their hands for some time.

YES, God is in control of EVERYTHING--EVERY THING!!!

Consider the alternative of this fact. God IS NOT IN CONTROL OF ANYTHING!!! Would that make you happier? Of course not.  It's just that we want to place God where WE THINK HE SHOULD FIT INTO OUR FRAME OF THINKING.

Either God created His own ENEMY (Satan), or Satan created HIMSELF and God was helpless to stop him and has been loosing out to Satan by a ratio of ten to one for the past so many thousands of years. This is what Christendom teaches. This is NOT what the Scriptures teach.

By the way, we are considerably more complex than a mere puppet.  But it is true that God controls us every bit as much as a puppeteer controls a puppet. And God is not ashamed to admit that this is the case. God says that a man CANNOT DIRECT HIS OWN STEPS, that the response of the tongue IS FROM THE ETERNAL, that ALL IS OF GOD, that God is operating ALL according to the counsel of His own will, that HE Himself is the CREATOR OF EVIL, it was God who planted the forbidden fruit tree in the garden than contained not only good, but a knowledge of EVIL as well, it is GOD who sets up the rulers of all governments, one can only come to Christ when God decides to "draw [Greek, drag] him to Christ," and a thousand and one other things. So why do we have trouble believing all these Scriptures?

You ask why Christ should die for the sins of humanity which were known and brought about by God Himself? I would as you of what purpose would be Christ's crucifixion if it saved no one except those who somehow came to Christ by their own free will ASIDE from any "drawing of the Father"? 

The problem is, Grace, that we have been so brainwashed by the pagan and heretical theories of carnal-minded men that it is difficult to believe and rejoice in the plain, simple, and yet marvelously profound truths of God's Perfect Plan for the Salvation of all Mankind!

Meditate on this theme for a couple of years, Grace, and it will all become very clear--trust me, it will!



Whoa Ray......that like saying "God made kill all these people, God made me do this, made me do that, made me do those, made me do here" is very wrong

I love Ray's website but this is his only biggest mistake because why Jesus ask us to overcome sin? We do have a "choice" not free wills

Ray doesn't make sense here because remember 144,000 overcomer who never defile themselve to woman, are very holy people, does that make God made them that way and give them a very special reward to live with christ for 1,000 before the great judgment, and God choose them "favorite people"

I thought God is not "respecter of person"

Why else God died for us? Why else he put the laws to teach us?

Offline jabcat

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Re: Free wills, I know...but this?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2009, 10:38:33 PM »
ID, I'm leaving this for folks to read, but locking it so we won't get into a "free will"'s been decided we won't go there anymore on the boards...or even APPROACH the level of food fights we were having, with one of the main battlegrounds being this topic.  Again, folks can read for their own information, including your comments  :thumbsup:

There's some pretty good discussion going on right now about some similar issues that hasn't gone too deeply into the "free will", sovereignty's teetered a couple of times, but so far hasn't gone there REAL specifically except for a few comments.  So far, it's still alive  :happygrin:.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 10:44:26 PM by jabcat »
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2